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Comments and Questions on the April 2009 GDS Challenge

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seo
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Please use this thread to post any comments, questions or requests for clarification regarding the April 2009 Game Design Showdown Challenge, entitled "Dictyostelids".

Thanks,
Seo

Brykovian
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Disectiong Dictyostelids

Interesting topic, seo.

In order to help me get clearer what you are asking for, would the way the Cannons work in Dralius' game Cannon (rules) fit the Challenge?

-Bryk

Hedge-o-Matic
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Cannon was my first thought,

Cannon was my first thought, too. Of course, that game is based on cellular slime molds during the Warring States period, but, yeah, it'd be a good model.

Great topic, Seo!

seo
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Brykovian wrote:Interesting

Brykovian wrote:
Interesting topic, seo.

Hedge-o-Matic wrote:
Great topic, Seo!

:)
I was one of the start-up ideas I had on my game ideas notebook since I first read about Dictyostelids. I haven't done anything out of it yet, but I thought it would be interesting to see what the GDS bunch could come up with for it.

Brykovian wrote:
In order to help me get clearer what you are asking for, would the way the Cannons work in Dralius' game _Cannon_ ([rules](http://www.pyromythgames.com/products/cannon/Cannonrules.htm)) fit the Challenge?

Exactly! Another example would be the Kings in Checkers. I obviously expect much more innovative solutions, though. ;)

Mitchell Allen
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GDS April - Wow!

This looks great! I can't wait to see what we all come up with.

For a change, I've got my theme right off the bat.

Cheers,

Mitch

bluesea
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seo wrote:...the April 2009

seo wrote:
...the April 2009 Game Design Showdown Challenge entitled "Dictyostelids".
Seo

Great, now I need a PhD to do the GDS!!
;)

dnjkirk
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Another winning topic, seo

My entry is in. See you at the voting booth!

Jpwoo
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The worst part of these

The worst part of these things is waiting the week to see them

seo
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No, the worst part is when

No, the worst part is when you have an idea and can't work on it because you're too busy with work. :(

But yes, the wait is hard, though for me it's usually the wait for the voting results that is harder, as I usually spend the whole first week thinking about my entry.

SiddGames
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Wow, really interesting

Wow, really interesting topic. I'm trying to get back into doing the GDS regularly again, so let's see what I can come up with.

Jpwoo
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my work is pretty mindless so

my work is pretty mindless so I usually get a good bit of mental design work done on GDS. Though more than a few times it didnt' come together until the day it was due.

seo
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Jpwoo wrote:my work is pretty

Jpwoo wrote:
my work is pretty mindless

What do you do for a living?
Politician?
Economy TV guru?
Model?
Jerry Springer guest?

Now you made me curious. ;)

Jpwoo
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Something more glamorous than

Something more glamorous than all of the above!

I put up tents and stages for an events company. Yes it is true, I pitch tents for a living.

InvisibleJon
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Aw, nuts...

seo wrote:
No, the worst part is when you have an idea and can't work on it because you're too busy with work. :(
That's where I'm at this week. I have a bunch of nifty ideas, but I'm so busy with other stuff that I won't be able to enter. =(

seo
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Voting

Based on recent comments, I feel inclined to replace the vote-for-the-one-you-like-best poll used on the last few GDS with a more meaningful system.

What do you think of voting for 1st, 2nd and 3rd places, with 5, 3 and 1 points awarded to each, respectively?
Voting could be implemented through three separate polls, or just by PM as it used to be before we had the poll feature.

I'll wait till Monday to decide how we will handle voting this month. In the meantime, opinions and suggestions are welcome on this thread.

ReneWiersma
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I'm surprised to see ten

I'm surprised to see ten entries as I though this was a particularly difficult challenge. Maybe that makes it even more interesting to try and come up with something!

Anyway, about the scoring system. I'm more partial to a system where entries score 5/4/3 points for 1st/2nd/3rd place. Since there are ten entries I'd say an entry who is voted 3rd place twice is "better" than an entry that is voted 1st place only once.

Or you could give each voter ten points which they may distribute as they see fit among four entries with a maximum of 5 points per entry.

seo
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I agree

Good point, René. I concur.

Jpwoo
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I think i like the 5/4/3

I think i like the 5/4/3 option, or split 10 as you please.

Just read the entries. the BGDF never fails to impress.

Empking
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5/4/3

I think 5/4/3 is better as its not affected by people giving 10s and its easy to tell (because its the only way) how much points you should give to your favourite .

Mitchell Allen
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I like any system that let's me award good entries

Be it 5/4/3 or spend ten points, I'm happy to vote where I can give a nod to entries that I like enough to consider for top honors.

Cheers,

Mitch

End of Time Games
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Jpwoo wrote:Something more

Jpwoo wrote:
Something more glamorous than all of the above!

I put up tents and stages for an events company. Yes it is true, I pitch tents for a living.

I know a guy just down my street who has been doing that all his life. No matter what your doing great way to get things designed while you work ay!

bluesea
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If we can have more than one

If we can have more than one poll, can we have 3 or 4 polls judging different parts of the game entries. This might offer some feedback if designers can see if something in their design piqued some interest, even though they don't *win*.

Say,
THEME--1pt
RULES--1pt
"ENGINE"--2pts
"GAMEPLAY"--2pts
"ELEGANCE"-3pts
ORIGINAL MECHANICS--3pts

Also, is there a way to hide the results of the poll until the end. Not that it would effect how I vote, just makes for some nice tension.

Might be fun to just experiment with the voting for a few months to see what we can come up with.

Katherine
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I like the winner takes all

I like the winner takes all approach to voting.

It is not to difficult to identify an entry that both meets the GDS criteria and appeals to my sense of fun.

Changing the voting to a more detailed system is asking the voters to spend more time than I would have to give. I simply do not have time to fairly compare 60 game parts and would not vote at all in preference to just clicking buttons.

Jpwoo
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shazzaz wrote: Changing the

shazzaz wrote:

Changing the voting to a more detailed system is asking the voters to spend more time than I would have to give. I simply do not have time to fairly compare 60 game parts and would not vote at all in preference to just clicking buttons.

While I could see how blueseas multiple polls with different games winning in different categories could be a time pig. I don't really see how ranking games 1,2,3 takes much longer than just picking the one you like.

If you like Winner take all that is fine.

RE: Blueseas multiple polls for different categories. I think this might be a bit much. Keeping track of 10 games is hard enough, while trying to compare the engines for each one on their own merits, and the themes and the clarity. That might make my head explode.

Maybe the voting style should just be at the discretion of that month's host.

RTaylor
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voting

I agree that it should be kept simple- a 5/3/2 system would be fine, but any more would be too confusing. Comments on mechanics etc.. could be saved for the critique/comments thread.

Darkehorse
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seo wrote:Based on recent

seo wrote:
Based on recent comments, I feel inclined to replace the vote-for-the-one-you-like-best poll used on the last few GDS with a more meaningful system.

What do you think of voting for 1st, 2nd and 3rd places, with 5, 3 and 1 points awarded to each, respectively?
Voting could be implemented through three separate polls, or just by PM as it used to be before we had the poll feature.

I'll wait till Monday to decide how we will handle voting this month. In the meantime, opinions and suggestions are welcome on this thread.

Why not just make it easy and have each voter rank each entry from most favorite to least favorite. For this month, your most favorite would get 10 pts, next favorite 9, next 8, etc down to 1. People who have entries submitted simply would not vote for their own and then take the entry with the highest average. Seems simple enough. My fear sometimes is that some entries simply get skimmed over and don't get a fair review. If people were forced to rank them in this way, then each entry would at least get somewhat of a thorough enough analysis to rank it with it's peers.

Any thoughts?
-Darke

RTaylor
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Re: ranking greatest to least

Again, this would likely be too complicated. It's usually not too hard to choose a top 3, but to say which, for example, of two entries which fail to meet the contest guidelines is 'better', is difficult and frankly, unnecessary. It is the job of the game designer to write a description that doesn't get 'just skimmed over'.

Darkehorse
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Well

It's obvious no one is going to agree on any one method for voting. So perhaps we should have a vote regarding which system to use.

Does anyone want to take a few moments to list the various voting systems proposed and also maybe the strengths/weaknesses of each system, then then admins can get then up in a vote so we can decide how to proceed?

-Darke

seo
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I'm with Jpwoo

I think I'm with Jpwoo on this.

While bluesea's idea sounds good in principle, it would mean too much work and I'm afraid many people would simply stop voting. To a lesser extent, Darke's ranking proposal might also be a bit overkill (for the voters, not for the GDS admin).

And while I understand Darke's motives for the rank system, I tend to lean in the opposite direction: I would go for the 5/4/3 vote and allow for ties (5/5/3, 5/4/4, 5/3/3, etc.) or leaving one of the three places vacant (5/4-, 5/-/3, etc.), if you feel that reflects better the relative merit of the best entries. But maybe even that is complicating things more beyond convenience, so I'm fine with just 5/4/3.

The KISS rule comes to my mind. :)

Jpwoo
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I like the idea of ranking.

I like the idea of ranking. but ranking them all seems like too much. Plus I will feel bad when my game comes in last. That is ok if votes are dear, but would suck if the games were ranked.

Katherine
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As a voter I am happy to try

As a voter I am happy to try Ranking 5/4/3. A more detailed analysis would take too much time.

Am I right in thinking that the voting process needs to be changed because of a lack of feedback?

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