What is a game designer?

This is the problem. You keep referencing your education and your experience gaming. You *do* imply that you know more because of these things.

Neither of these things are a guarantee that you have good ideas. They don't add explanatory content. They're a claim of authority and status, not quality ideas. This is why you might seem big-headed, it makes you seem like you want people to "respect" you for all your "experience" rather than just talking about your ideas.

I agree about the profile info and making people aware of that. I generally give weight to people's options based on the frequency and quality of their posts throughout the site. I wouldn't be opposed, though, to a "Verified Published" and "Verified Self-Published" badge, which could give weight to some opinions and potentially encourage people to look further into those people (such as which games they've had published and by whom).

I`m pretty sure that your contribution and sharing the experience is welcomed by everyone.

But hinting that someone is "worthy" to be called a game-designer, while someone else isn't, because he is yet to prove himself, won't score you much points, I think.

We're all here to share ideas and experience. If you have more experience to share - great!

I've already explained to another "newbie" that to qualify oneself as a "Musician" is NOT CORRECT simply because you play a musical instrument.

For sake of simplicity, I will not rehash the entire reason for this.

I'll make it simpler (for you and all the other newbies).

DEFINITION "Musician": "a person who plays a musical instrument, especially as a profession, or is musically talented."

It says nothing about someone who "dabbles" in music at some point in time or as a hobby. Using the designation of a "Musician" has a MEANING. And if you are NOT a true "Musician" you are misappropriating the term.

The fact that you "imply" that a "Game Designer" is somebody with an "unpublished", "untested", "unverified" piece of work means very little with the people who have "published", "tested" and "verified" designs.

Like @radioactivemouse explained, just because you know how to use "Adobe Photoshop" does not make you a "Graphic Artists". People go to school to study how to become "Graphic Artists" ... what makes you think that all they learned was how to use "Photoshop"???

This has nothing to do with EGO either. It's got something to do with "accreditation" and the proper use of the term "Game Designer". The argument is that just because you designed a "Game" does not mean that you are a "Game Designer"... otherwise everybody who is "NEW" to the hobby will entitle themselves under false pretexts that they TOO are "Game Designer"... Even the ones that claim to be "Fist Time Game Designers".

The argument I make is that all newbies are "Students" of "Game Design". And until their designs are tested and verified, they are NOT "Game Designers". They "dabble" and simply have made a design.

Now what we are "unsure" about is WHO rightfully deserves the title of "Game Designer". First Time or other. And the point is that not everyone who posts a message on this forum should call themselves "Game Designers".

Personally I use the term "Hobbyist", others have suggested "Amateur"... But to come to this website, post a message that a design you have made is up on Kickstarter and then disappear (Poof!) 30 days later - doesn't qualify you as a "Game Designer"...

Do you understand the argument???

There is no "rage" or "ego" talking. I'm just discussing @radioactivemouse initial OP.

I did not mean to "disrespect" your musical talents either.

But @radioactivemouse is making a valid point.

Note: And congrats on the musical talent.

And I am qualified with some experience also since I have been a member of this Forum for more than 5 years. And some people signed up 5 years ago - and have never posted any messages or contributed to this community.

I'm just echoing @radioactivemouse argument about the term "Game Designer" much like "Graphic Artist", etc.

Note #2: And like I said "everyone" seems to be like "who cares" about the term "Game Designer", "we're all Game Designers" seems to be the response of most people. I am certain that that was @radioactivemouse initial intention with the OP.

Q: "Why is it IMPORTANT to all 'First Time Game Designers' to call themselves 'Game Designers' at all???"

Note #3: Another example because I BAKE a CAKE - does that mean I am a "BAKER"? To produce cakes like "Cake Boss" takes a LOT of know how - especially with commercial grade equipment, techniques for making the dough, etc. It should be the same for both "Game Designers" and "Graphic Artists"...

Update: To me "personally" I think you need to have a "proven" design to call yourself a "Game Designer". This mean either you have "Self-Published" the game (if you have - my kudos to you - because WE know this is a tough route...) or have one of your designs "Published" by a Publisher... (an equally hard road to travel for all kinds of other reasons).

That's the point I am making. And it has nothing to do with ego.

I go by the term "Hobbyist".

Perhaps things being so accessible - makes it seem like everybody can do everything. But that's not true.

I'm sure you being a professional photographer can relate to the "Good Old Days" where you needed to process your own film instead of digital photography.

So what if somebody may take a "nice" or better picture than you. They are still "Amateurs" and you are a "Professional".

That's all that I am saying...

Note: Just because it's easier to take a picture nowadays - doesn't mean that everyone carrying their iPhone is a Photographer... Or even worst a "Journalist". Ego aside - it takes years of learning a profession, and it also takes time to realize and overcome challenges of your trade or profession.

This melting pot attitude has to stop.

For every GOOD YouTube channel, there are HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of BAD ones.

I am not a professional "Game Designer". I am a "hobbyist". I don't design games as a way of living.

I'm pretty certain that people have designed much better games than I.

But this "I can do everything - anyone else can do" just because you are given the means, has absolutely no bearing on their background is illogical (to me).

Why is it "important" to distinguish between being a "Professional" or not? Well there are social ramifications to earning Boy Scout Badges, no?

And I know a couple hobbyist photographers, they have spent thousands of dollars in terms of equipment, lighting, etc... They also invest a lot of time in their off-hours to "hone their craft". The INVEST their time and effort to go out there and search for the right exposure, light, etc. All the while trying to find the right "shot".

That's probably what you spend most of your own time on.

But you probably are much more knowledgeable in the art of photography than someone who is snapping pictures with a iPhone. Why do people hire a Photographer for Weddings? Why not just ask someone to use their iPhone?

We NEED professionals and we need to make the distinction between those who are and are not. IMHO.

Went to a friend's wedding a while back. He had TWO (2) Photographers:

1. A professional photographer that was also a video producer.

2. A amateur photographer to take pictures of the guests.

The Amateur photographer did a really nice job in capturing people. But why do you think they chose to also hire a professional photographer? Because they want to make sure all the *important* pictures were handled by a "professional".

The ad-hoc - extra picture were nice - but not the main focus of the event.

If people think like that, there must be a reason for it, no?

Everyone wants to make the work worth their time. It's hard to predict if a game will do well or not, so people generally don't want to invest work in something when they can't tell if it will pay off.

It certainly makes producing a game *harder*, it would be easier to do if people just spent their time for free to help out. But I don't have a problem with their choice. There is nothing wrong with them wanting to get paid for work so they can pay their bills and get the things they want.

I was responding to questccg about eg. illustrators not being willing to collaborate on a game for a cut of profits.

I similarly design games as a hobby in my free times. I don't get paid and don't know if I will ever get paid.

I think it's easier to find a designer who designs games as a hobby than an illustrator that does commercial-quality illustration for games as a hobby. There might be exceptions, but then I said "generally" not "universally".

I understand - it's just a little unfortunate. Maybe it forces us to focus on the designs we know are GOOD as opposed to those that are only mediocre.

I think a lot of designers on this website are "hobbyists". Which is nothing bad - all it really takes is one good game to propel you into the spotlight.

But I wish collaborations could be possible - with writers and graphic artists and illustrators. My current game's budget is $7,000 for everything that has gone into making it. But I have not collected a dime, nor do I expect to ... I'm being a little pessimistic - but people seem to like the game, but have not filled out our little survey.

I guess it would be possible to TRIM it down to $5,000 without any writers and lowering the cost for a Graphic Artist. It's still an EXPENSIVE hobby. But it fills me with more joy than a holiday on some beach somewhere... It also occupies more time than just a week or two.

Anyhow ... I doubt any of this changes anytime soon.

The defining question is, have you made any money at it? That is what distinguishes the professional from the amateur. Not just generating content but profiting from it, because if designing a game is the hard part for you then perhaps you are in the wrong line of work. The hard part, the work part, is the process of selling your concept. I know that the OP brought up the example of selling $1 adventures to friends, but we all hopefully know what a genuine paycheck looks like.

People have already mentioned parallels in photography and music, and the same principle applies there. If people pay you money to take photographs then you can in good conscience put "Professional Photographer" on your business card. Are you any good at it? Not necessarily, because most of the world is run by people who are at best semi-competent at their jobs. A significant section of the workforce should be fired, because it is quite possible to be experienced at being incompetent. Being a professional doesn't mean that you are necessarily talented or experienced. It is just the badge of honor for those who have passed that initial hurdle of earning money for their work.

Yes, there are talented amateurs who are better than any paid professional. Kind of like how struggling fine artists sneer at the illustrators and graphic designers who are "pimping" their talent for a salary. Some of those fine artists go on to make a profit within their lifetimes, which then qualifies them as professional artists (and leads to the art-world debate of whether they've "sold out" same as the illustrators). There are going to be first-time game designers here who are more technologically savvy, more aware of recent innovations in production processes, and so forth than industry veterans perhaps wary of the digital revolution. There are also people here with work experience outside of "game design" that generates valuable insights.

Things get blurry these days because of print-on-demand and self-publishing. I've met plenty of "published" authors who have written multiple novels but haven't turned an actual profit from a single one. What it means to have your game "published" can become fuzzy. When someone asks me what qualifies a person as a writer though, I point them to something like the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America: http://www.sfwa.org/about/join-us/sfwa-membership-requirements/

That's what it takes to join a professional organization for that industry. That is what qualifies one as a professional science fiction or fantasy author. Maybe someday GAMA will have a "Designer" level membership. Until then, Game Designer is rather like being a pastor. Some people are called to the latter vocation, so they go to college for eight years, do their internship, learn Hebrew and Latin, and become active academics and counselors. Other people get paid just the same with a high school degree and the best of intentions -- essentially djayshaggy's notion that commitment is enough to earn the title, except that these guys also do, in fact, get paid.

I don't think that there's any need for anyone to qualify themselves or offer up credentials here. That's what the real world is for, that place where we shake hands, look each other in the eyes, and realize that we TOTALLY wore the same shirt that day -- whereas most of us are writing these posts while we poop. Caveat emptor is a given online, and learning to differentiate the good from the bad here is a genuine skill worthy of developing, much the same as reading people when face-to-face.

Regardless of what field, I expect that all of the professionals here know the exhilarating feeling of getting that first check. There's also the qualified versus unqualified answer to "Oh, you are X? Where might I have seen your work?" Professionals rarely feel intimidated by that question. If your answer involves how The Man and The System are keeping you down, and if only, and if people would just accept your complicated alternative scheme for the way that the industry should work then you are probably at the other end of the spectrum. The more professional you are at something, the more that endeavor creeps to the front of the list when someone asks what you do for a living. I've made substantially more money at other work than writing, but I still say that I am a writer by trade.

I've probably posted this somewhere in the past, but I have not had a game published. I'd be more likely to list "Alcoholic" on a business card. I have been paid professional rates for numerous RPG articles (and this is outside of other paid writing and editing work). I successfully pitched an RPG product and signed a contract but this was shortly before my daughter was born with severe medical problems. Between that and my wife's failing health, I won't be finishing any projects like that in my immediate future. Most of the advice that I've ever given here stems from professional and amateur experience in other fields (whether it be self-publishing a print magazine or the much less applicable stint as a Wild West Town cowboy). Mostly, I enjoy business as a hobby thanks to the influence of my father who was an accomplished executive. I'd like to see more aspiring game designers take an interest in things like marketing, consumer psychology, and business management.

From my perspective, I have more ideas I would like to "explore". That's fancy talk for I want to design MORE for my game. "Tradewars - Homeworld" was designed with EXPANSION in mind.

Right off the bat, I already have an expansion that will be sold separately because *newbies* felt that the game had "too many options". To me "it's a GAME people - you don't have to win it everytime!" Sheesh!

And then I would like to create two (2) additional races which I currently have some developed material for.

BUT I NEED to re-coup some money IF I want to make an expansion. My coffers are running low and the only way to produce more - is SALES.

So I agree "Coffee's for closers". Wish I knew something about sales. It takes being shrewd and not for honest people (from what people are telling me...) IMHO I don't care what people around me have. They could be millionaires for all I know. What matters to me - is what happens to MY game. How well is it perceived - do people like it, etc. It's not like I am self-centered or an ego maniac - it's just because I feel like my options are running out...

Which means I may need to "quit" this pursuit - because I won't be able to afford making anything (since the investment costs are too high)...

Note: As far as the "designation" of "Game Designer" ... to me this hinges on how well my 2nd game does. Those who know me and my background, know that my first game was the product of pure inexperience that led to nowhere. I got feedback from other designer who introduced me more into the hobby... and told me what kind of game I should make.

So thanks to their input - I designed "Tradewars - Homeworld" (TWHW). You can't even compare "Quest AC" to TWHW... Quest AC was when I had no clue and TWHW is when I actually LEARNED about the Game Design industry and what to orient myself towards (the game's goal).

But anyway you look at it, it still is an "EXPENSIVE" Hobby.

Sorry! I also had the "eXpandable Tabletop Game" (XTG3) Organization I was hoping to bring to life... But pretty useless if I can't even make my OWN expansion!

But I'll try not to mention it in my future posts... Sometimes I should EDIT my own posts - because frankly they get too personal and too in detail.

My BAD! Just being honest...

Edit: Could be the Sangria talking too! ;)

Note: Good news on the XTG3 front - I met a Lawyer/Game Designer recently. I am hoping to have a fruitful conversation with him to see if he can guide me with the XTG3 project!

@soulfinger: I'm NEW to this also...

I virtually knew nothing about mechanics and went from a very simple set collection game to a very sophisticated deck-builder.

Even if it's been 5 years that I have been working on designs - I still consider myself relatively NEW to the business.

As far as being "Entrepreneurial" and business-savy, I am not. I would rather work for a company than run my own. I used to dream about owning a company but having gone through the process of owning one - have figured out that I'd rather work for a charismatic leader than be one.

Perhaps it's because just like Jamey Stegmeir, I need to find my Allan Stone. Somebody to handle the sales/financial side of things; so that I can focus on the creative side of things...?

Again "Game Design" is a hobby - but one that I would like to evolve to add additional "accomplishments" such as having other successful designs.

Note: I know what it takes to be successful at sales - and I know I don't have that skill set. My day job which pays my bills forces me to use my creativity to resolve difficult problems.

As for "fire-fighting", I'm very good at that - I spent over 10 years doing exactly that before moving to a position that is more strategic in nature. "Fire-fighting" used to pay very good money also... you don't know how many people are in need of help. And out of time...

But that's the past, now I help bring other people's vision into reality. It's not as stressful even though it can be challenging at times.