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Living Card Game (LCG)

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Zodiak Team
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PS: I just read your response

PS: I just read your response to the DXK's the first time I mentioned them. I was trying to say that the DXK's would be templates created by the original game designer so that people making expansions could keep the same frames and layout to keep the game/art consistant.

[part 2 of my original response. Part 1 is on Page 2]

questccg
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Pretty good

Zodiak Team wrote:
PS: I just read your response to the DXK's the first time I mentioned them. I was trying to say that the DXK's would be templates created by the original game designer so that people making expansions could keep the same frames and layout to keep the game/art consistant.

So are you saying that the licensing should be free (according to your level of choice) but that the resources should be available for a fee? That's something I did not consider... I misunderstood the terminology. But your response has clarified this.

It goes in an interesting direction to monetize the licensing. Myabe it could be like TGC 30/70 split and you could specify the rate of return (which could be flexible).

That would go a long way in promoting the XTG3 licensing, adds another incentive to the overall pot. And offers a way to lessen the burden for hardware and software.

I think the key here would be *flexibility*. Seeing as this was not something I had considered earlier, a more flexible web-based solution could be developed.

My only concern is that with all things, free everyone will want a piece of the action. And by extension certain restrictions would also encourage more development - however if a fee is applied, maybe there could be piracy and such. I don't think I would have sufficient power to stop it.

So it would have to be an "honest" system where the people who are involved trust each other and only people who have paid an upfront fee are reviewed... Something like that could put an end to any illegitimate games.

I will consider this although my initial design will only specify licensing and the proper level. Resources might be something I add at a later time.

But thanks for the encouraging words! I appreciate it.

questccg
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Got an idea

"Community-driven" products!

So instead of worrying about how to control the flow in a free market, only acceptable "community-driven" products will be acceptable for XTG3.

Like if I had never heard of Person X, well then I won't grant a license for Person X. However I Person X is part of the "community", well then it's like an open door policy!

I think this will work great with your suggestion.

So even "open" licensing would have some restrictions, namely that it must be a "community" effort! A+!

Zodiak Team
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You wouldn't have to try and

You wouldn't have to try and manage it, the designer and the community would.

Here's the break down.

I have an idea for a new expansion to Homiez an XTG2 game.

I go to XTG.com and look up Homiez and check out the "Design your own expansion to Homiez" link.

Inside is a list of instructions and legal crap I'll have to follow.

Step 1 on this list is a written submission to the publisher/designer of Homiez stating what I'm looking to do (BTW you'll need to make a legal note somewhere that ideas submitted are not protected).

Step 2: DXK instructions. This part tells me the price of the DXK and what restrictions/priviledges go along with it and of course what it includes.

Step 3: Make Payment and submit application of expansion which sends a notification to the publisher/creator. Upon acception the payment is collect and the DXK is sent to the consumer.

This break down helps avoid spammers and keeps a catalog of everyone getting DXK's so anyone making an expansion who clearly was never on that list is in risk of legal action from the original publisher/designer.

Now the community is going to be your biggest advicate because you'll have John playing an XTG expansion of Homiez and he's like o man this game was great I love XTG games and expansions lets look on the XTG site and see what other expansions of Homiez there are...hey wait a mintue the one we're playing isn't listed! Let me message them to ask them why.

Zodiak Team
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Also I should state that XTG

Also I should state that XTG Publisher/designers should be allowed to set their own DXK price. They'll be encouraged to keep it low enough to attract people but high enough to avoid spamming and filter only the serious individuals.

You shouldn't look at this as greed but as an incentive to grow the community. Once a DXK is purchased that person is going to want to do their damnedest to get the product together. Also having the files in a neat package like that will be very very helpful.

questccg
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Primary focus

The primary concern is to determine what licensing is supposed to do.

  1. Channel the process such that anyone interested in expansion or developing there own, is given a streamlined process for this.
  2. Have different forms of licensing with different purposes.
  3. Maybe have a repository for template files - but it's not a top priority.

Having a directory of XTG3 products is the primary focus. If you like an existing XTG3 product, you can search for others. If you want an expansion and none is available, that's a new market opportunity for you.

Also to protect designers when making publishing deals such that the product brand is protected and priority is given to the original designer.

The KEY to XTG3 products is their "core" product. Everything else is superfluous. Your goal as a "core" designer is to grow the market for that "core". All concerns should be focused on that.

As I mentioned in an e-mail, all three (3) layers of licensing have a purpose. You may not want a product in "open" market - but then again, your product may benefit from an "open" market injection of new ideas... So never say never.

@Zodiak Team: I'm not sure fee-based resources is really interesting. I would prefer encouraging "community" projects or efforts. Full use of licensing can open up the market for "core" products... That means extra shelf-life, way after most games become obsolete! :)

questccg
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For example

@Zodiak Team: If you had developed a product sold under "Extended" licensing which allows for organized reviews of future products and game sets.

Well that would mean you would have a process in place to handle such inquiries.

I don't think DXKs are necessary since the process that is to be followed is a "community" process. Your basically saying: "Here is MY game, if you buy it, you can build upon it, if you want."

Moreover what you guaranty is that you will "review" all inquiries in a timely manner (let's assume 6 months) and in partnership with the various parties, you as the "core" developer will manage the relationships such that YOU bring to the table the best possible outcome for a new game set.

This means design, production, sales and marketing. It's not just a simple thing, it's a process and once you have one defined for your product, you can streamline it for all inquiries...

It think DXKs should be part of the process but not an integrated "feature" of the website... I understand that for "free" or "open" licensing maybe templates might be good - but from first hand experience, it's like giving away your baby...

You probably wouldn't want to do that... And so I think while the idea of DXKs might be nice - not many designers will be interested in it...

questccg
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Surge in popularity

I think many designer struggle with the issue of having proper licensing for their games.

I have seen many designers defining their own terminology - but that's where it ends. There are NO benefits to having your OWN terminology.

Having a COMMON terminology such as XTG3 bring together many designers under the same roof. It also protects "core" designs.

It's arguable that some people might say: "Why do I need a license?" And then I would say, read the posts in this thread or hold off until the http://www.XTG3.org is LIVE. From there you can get a better understanding of what licensing can do for you.

Since it will be meant to be a "community" effort and of course promote other "community" efforts... I personally feel like dropping a personalized terminology for a more legitimate one, that is more inclusive than LCG, is probably more interesting for most, if not all, designers.

But I get it, people will still complain: "I want to call mine the B.S. Card Game instead." My reply is: "Fine - but don't complain about XTG3 licensing - because clearly you don't fully understand the concept..."

Zodiak Team
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Update?

Update?

questccg
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UPDATE: Still ALIVE and well

Okay so it has been 11 months since I have been dealing with a Publisher for "Tradewars - Homeworld". It has been a difficult and challenging journey - since it is taking so long.

The XTG3 domain is owned by me and is part of the plans for the publishing of my own game. I have not yet had the chance to meet with a lawyer to discuss the ACTUAL license.

But the logos are done and are easy to understand. They also account for people who are colourblind (as was one members concerns).

There were a lot of designers wondering about the importance of the license. And I'd like to take a minute to discuss the various reasons a designer may want to use XTG3 licensing:

1. First of all it is a way (even with Open Licensing) to control what derivatives or expansions are designed using YOUR branding.

2. It's YOUR Branding. The Publisher has the right to Publish the game AS-IS. You OWN the intellectual property (IP) and a such are the person to be contacted FIRST if another designer wants to create an expansion for YOUR game.

3. There will be clauses in the license, since what you will be doing is GRANTING a license to CONSUMERS who can then create expansions for your game. This allows you to protect yourself from defamatory uses, incomplete or unplayable expansions, etc.

4. If your Publisher wants to DESIGN their OWN expansion, that gives you some right to a royalty even if you are not the designer. This is obvious a negotiation which is outside the scope of the license.

Basically I will design a 1 page for "Tradewars - Homeworld" where other designers will be able to READ the license set up and then the process can continue from there.

Sorry I have been away and have had limited Internet service - I hope this should be remedied in the next month and that I have restored my daily Internet access!

I will post further about this ... should any designers have more questions.

questccg
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XTG3 New "Color-blind" logos

Well the I wanted to AWAKEN this old thread to tell NEW designers that the XTG3 concept is still LIVE and WELL.

It is still in it's infancy ... but "Tradewars - Homeworld" will be published using this designation.

So I figured I'd SHARE the new "color-blind" logos which show the different levels of licensing:

Okay so I have (again) revised the logos for XTG3 licensing:

Closed license

Reviewer license

Open designer license

Expansion set

XTG3 stands for "eXpandable Tabletop Game".

And will be a OPEN designation for games that are designed with Expansion in mind. This is contrary to closed designations such a LCG (Copyright Fantasy Flight Games - FFG).

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