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prototype quality

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supercool designer
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How good a prototype does it have to be in order to be submitted on kickstarter? For example, I use Risk pieces for the playing pieces and have computer clip art for the cards. Would this be good enough to submit to a company? Would you get the proper funding from kickstarter or would you need a better prototype with original artwork and sculpts?

ElKobold
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Most likely not.Games are

Most likely not.

Games are expected to be 85% completed by the time you hit "start".

P.S:
What kind of game are we talking about? You're mentioning "sculpts". Is it a game with miniatures?

kevnburg
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There's a big difference

There's a big difference between putting a game on Kickstarter and submitting it to a publishing company.

For putting a game on Kickstarter: You need to be able to show something that looks like a finished product. When you personally put a game on Kickstarter, YOU are essentially acting as a publisher, and you also need to do a lot of preliminary work to make sure your game is well known before it launches on Kickstarter.

For submitting to a publisher: Looking nicer will increase your chances (better presentation), but publishers are expecting simple prototypes and don't care too much if your pieces don't look nice (it's the publisher's job to create final artwork and components). Submiting a prototype with clip art and use of risk pieces is perfectly fine. :)

radioactivemouse
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I agree with this...

kevnburg wrote:
There's a big difference between putting a game on Kickstarter and submitting it to a publishing company.

For putting a game on Kickstarter: You need to be able to show something that looks like a finished product. When you personally put a game on Kickstarter, YOU are essentially acting as a publisher, and you also need to do a lot of preliminary work to make sure your game is well known before it launches on Kickstarter.

For submitting to a publisher: Looking nicer will increase your chances (better presentation), but publishers are expecting simple prototypes and don't care too much if your pieces don't look nice (it's the publisher's job to create final artwork and components). Submiting a prototype with clip art and use of risk pieces is perfectly fine. :)

kevinburg hit the nail on the head with this one, however I do have to add a few things:

-a game that looks nicer will not increase your chances. I've not only gone through the process of publishing a game, but I've also represented a game company checking out prototypes...I'll tell you that looks don't matter, though as a reviewer, you can tell if a game has gone through its testing or if it's putting on a candy coat to excuse lack of gameplay.

-if you're submitting to Kickstarter and you don't have a final version ready, you'd better be sure that you can explain how you're going to get to your final product; you're going to have to have those channels on lock down before even thinking of submitting to KS.

Getting a game published is a lot harder than it appears.

smitc240
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I also have a prototype question....

Hi this is my first day here. This is my first post. From what I've read on these forums today, this is an extremely helpful, professional group of people. Kudos.

Here's my question. If Risk pieces are fine for a prototype, are copyrighted pictures or art OK to use in a prototype. Example I'm in need of 'Planet Sheets' that will display icons relating to that location. Can I use a picture of a planetscape that I just found off the internet? It will be obstructed and modified somewhat in photoshop, but it's still someone else's work.
I'm not selling the game with it in it, but Im using their work to ultimately make a deal with a publisher, so at the very least its super unethical.

If the answer is no, anyone have advice for finding sci-fi artists?

THANKS!!! Sorry to jack your thread.

radioactivemouse
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smitc240 wrote:Hi this is my

smitc240 wrote:
Hi this is my first day here. This is my first post. From what I've read on these forums today, this is an extremely helpful, professional group of people. Kudos.

Here's my question. If Risk pieces are fine for a prototype, are copyrighted pictures or art OK to use in a prototype. Example I'm in need of 'Planet Sheets' that will display icons relating to that location. Can I use a picture of a planetscape that I just found off the internet? It will be obstructed and modified somewhat in photoshop, but it's still someone else's work.
I'm not selling the game with it in it, but Im using their work to ultimately make a deal with a publisher, so at the very least its super unethical.

If the answer is no, anyone have advice for finding sci-fi artists?

THANKS!!! Sorry to jack your thread.

I've had no problem with using other game components in pitches, but note that if and when a publisher takes your game, they WILL change the art/components to their specifications.

The important part is gameplay and if the game fits with their requirements and needs.

smitc240
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Thanks radioactive!

Thanks! I do understand that they'll take over, I was just specifically wondering about the artwork I was using to pitch the game to them and if I needed to own it. Thanks for your help!

lewpuls
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Kickstarters aren't about the quality of play

KS are not about the quality of play, because no one knows what it will be. You're not showing your playable prototype, you're showing a semblance of what the final will (you hope) look like.

They're about the looks, especially, minis, and good card artwork.

I know of a game successfully kickstarted, yet the prototype (months afterward!) was hand-written paper stuck on playing cards, and far from done; yet the KS could show some of the projected artwork (which was very good).

You might want to watch "What attracts backers to Kickstarter board and card games" pt 1 http://youtu.be/Pqk_x01Qoxo. And part 2 as well, on my "Game Design" youtube channel.

Corsaire
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Regarding copyright

Regarding copyright images.

It would rarely fall under fair use to use a random image from the internet in a prototype. Though many people say "sure whatever," it is likely infringing in principle even if not materially. As the game industry is based on intellectual property, I personally wouldn't want to present myself as indifferent to it.

A different approach is to go to NASA.gov for a ton of public domain space images. There are also projects out there offering free art for games, also inexpensive clip art packs, and sites with tons of public domain images where the copyright has expired.

However, game pieces of any sort that you own are fine to use, as you own them.

kevnburg
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There's a good mix of

There's a good mix of opinions on using copyrighted images when submitting a game to a publisher. Here's a more detailed discussion on the matter: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1021393/etiquette-copyrighted-artwork-a...

My cherry-picked quote from that discussion: "People and professionals use samples all the time in usage to convey to a potential patron or investor [or publisher] what something is supposed to look or sound or feel like...The minute you put it out there for public consumption, however, all bets are off. Whether it's free print'n'play, or cheapo pdf, or self-published, you're now in the wrong, because you are putting it out there as a finished product of something you are claiming shows your work and talent."

smitc240
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Thanks again....

Thanks both of you for your valued advice (as well as time). I appreciate your help! I did try and source most of my stuff from NASA and various clip art sites.

I'm BRAND NEW to game design. Actually to board gaming in general. The great work being done by game designers is what brought me back to the hobby. It truly is stunning to see the games out now compared to 25 years ago. You women and men are at the height of creativity. I'm sort of honored to even be getting advice from such professionals Unlike that guy who said his game was ready to be published, then disregards the advice he was looking for. Crazy.

Does anyone have any links for programs like you mentioned for free art, or even paid artists looking for work? Any info on how to proceed is welcome.

I'm in 100% agreement Corsair about not wanting to represent myself as someone who is indifferent to copyright law, especially as a photographer. That's exactly the advice I was looking for, I felt like I already knew it and was just trying to find someone to say it was ok.

Kev, that's what I was also thinking "This is just how it's supposed to (quality wise) look." Being familiar with graphic design, I feel like I could really make it shine with some supplied art. But the second I put it out I would (or if it happened to somehow get published) redo all the art. However if I'm doing that, putting it eventually on KS would be similar to 'reaping rewards" from copy-written work, thus sort of sidestepping the spirit of the law.

I'll check out that discussion thread now, again thanks for helping me.

Chris

radioactivemouse
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places to go

smitc240 wrote:

Does anyone have any links for programs like you mentioned for free art, or even paid artists looking for work? Any info on how to proceed is welcome.

Chris

There's a card game out called Exodus, which I'm personally not a fan of, but I got to talking with them about their art. They said they got their art from fiver.com. I haven't used it personally, but if they can do it, I'm sure it can certainly be done again.

My situation is pretty unique. I work at an art college, so finding people to do good art for me in exchange for royalties or exposure (though I wouldn't do that exclusively) is easy for me.

If you need placeholder art, I just use basic clip art. I'm a big proponent of gameplay first before art, so minimal art is the best I do on prototypes.

Anyways, I hope this helps.

smitc240
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Joined: 04/24/2016
Thanks!

It does. Thank you very much Radioactive! Im in New York, that's a great idea. There are a lot of art schools around.

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