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judgement, concept for mind-building game, ideas needed.

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Tue, 10/11/2016 - 09:48
Midnight_Carnival
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Background (don't read this if you're bored easily):

Ok, this is not so well developed and I'm not going to waste time trying to pretty it up, it's a crude idea which I don't have time to work on myself and was wondering what my options were for developing this sort of thing.

I've had this idea for creating a text-graphic (ADOM or Nethack) style computer game in which you play as someone in the stone age with no knowledge and no tools, basically survival at its most crude.

I've had the (unpopular) idea that a P´nP RPG could start off as the basis for this game but would somehow end up 'bigger' than the computer game with a massive cult following, sadly my efforts to develop a system for this kind of fell flat (so far - see my Bone Range idea - if that still exists).

Ok, part of my game dynamic was that you don't just improve skills by practising them or levelling up, but that there would be mini-games which would simulate the activity to a degree. For example when it comes to knapping, on the computer version, you could go into one of those games where you shoot brightly coloured gems at clusters of other gems to try and knock them off, starting fires without matches or a lighter can be one of the most infuriating pastimes requiring tons of patience and skill, for that you could play a flappy-bird type game or something.

Thing is, a lot of this game would be about 'evolving' your mind from basic 'fight or flight' to the sort of mind which can waste time on sh- um, on stuff like existential philosophy and think that it is worthwhile.

Ok, so (at last) here is my question:

I was wondering if you had any ideas about games which would reflect the character (in a RPG if you didn't read above) 'evolving' their mind (of course the player would get smarter too!). They needn't be competitive but I want to steer away from pure logic puzzles.

The thing I'm going for is observation - as I see it, it consists of Senses which = pretty much pure data input, increasing this score would give your character better eyesight, hearing, smell, etc - then there would be Apprehension, "this = that", Judgement, "this = a threat, that = something I could use" and Analysis followed by Memory.
Since there are a ton of great Memory games out there I'm not so worried about this last one, but if you have any...

I'm looking for one game or a few simple games which could reflect/simulate this dynamic. Ideally, they should be engaging in themselves and have a degree of variety so that people can play them alone without the overarching RPG to make them interesting.

Sorry to be difficult but I want to discuss ideas/approaches here if possible: if someone posts "OH, that's X" and a link or "have you looked at..." and a link, I'm unlikely to visit those links. On the other hand if someone posts "X uses a system where you..." and a link I will be very interested.

Any ideas, suggestions, thoughts, comments, questions and criticisms are welcome. Since I have only started developing the game itself I'm treating this as a free-sharing zone, anything I come up with you're welcome to use as long as you don't prevent others from using it - although I'd encourage you to develop it further and share your version - and anything others come up with and share here, you'd need to talk to them about it.

Thanks for your patience in reading this.

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Tue, 10/11/2016 - 18:11
#1
Gabe
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7th Continent uses a system

7th Continent uses a system where you first get an "idea" card that allows you to make tools, start a fire, create items, etc. Then, when you get the resources necessary for the idea, you can turn the idea into an actual thing.

https://youtu.be/OPTpB0SXprU?t=13m50s

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Sat, 10/15/2016 - 08:49
#2
Midnight_Carnival
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Thanks!

I found that fascinating and would love to get hold of that game.

What I am looking for would work differently to that in a number of ways but to summarise, I'm interested in developing a sort of abstract thought simulator type thing with the ability to build on it while this game shows very interesting things related to practical knowledge and ingenuity.

It is nevertheless very interesting, I did not think of cards.
Actually, I don't want to get 7th Continent, I'll never get anything done and keep bugging my friends trying to drag them back to my place for a game!

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Sat, 10/15/2016 - 14:15
#3
Gabe
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Yes, I can't wait for it to

Yes, I can't wait for it to come out!

Help me understand a little more about the "abstract thought simulator." Are you just wanting to have mini-games that open up new ideas? How does gaining abstract thoughts relate to winning the game?

Have you thought about each player having his own player board with a type of worker placement mechanic where he can place tokens to make different combinations which lead to having different "thoughts"?

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Mon, 10/17/2016 - 15:04
#4
Midnight_Carnival
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No, I hadn't.

That is a very good idea and one I would like to expand upon. Thanks!

How it works more or less - well, I was hoping you could tell me that but if you want it to be broad and abstract here goes - :

Firstly, it is meant to be a mini-game played within the context of a bigger game, although I would like it if it worked well on its own.

The scenario works as follows: your character is in a bit of a bind and really needs to cut something to get free of an entanglement, for example. They find a broken piece of flint with a sharp edge and cut themselves free.
Then they throw the piece of flint away.
Why?
Well, quite simply because the need for something sharp has passed. The character can not envisage a situation where they might need something sharp again in the future. Although they have the intelligence to find and use the flint, they do not possess the capacity for the sort of abstract thought which would enable them to think beyond the current situation and see the use of keeping the piece of flint.

In terms of how this would function in the game, the player would have a set amount of Intelligence which would increase very slowly and with great difficulty. A player who's character gets into a difficult situation requiring a flint cutting tool would need to test for Awareness to see if the character notices the flint (if it is even in the region, otherwise shells, obsidian, bamboo or bone, if none of those are present...) Then they must test for Intelligence to see if they realise usefulness of the resource in overcoming the present obstacle they face, then they must test for Intelligence again with a penalty because they do not have any skill in blades, this is to see if they can use this piece of rock they found correctly.
Failing this they must discard the blade and risk losing a lot of stamina, even some health by trying to bite through whatever it is with their teeth!

If the player has the required level of abstract thought to see the value in keeping a piece of sharp flint then if they have one they would simply test for skill in blades until they get out of the bind and if they do not then they would test for Awareness, see, "oh my, there is a nifty piece of sharp flint" then test for skill in blades, they would then leave the situation with the item "Flint Blade".

That is how it fits into the bigger game.

The game itself should be something which requires the player to use abstract thought and once complete it would give your character a greater capacity for abstract thought. However they may not want to use this abstract thought on knowledge of blades, they might want to use it on foraging, on tracking, on herbalism or on fire (requires a lot of abstract thought points and a test of courage). In order to add to your list of skills you would need to play the game again getting a higher score (hence the need for diversity in the way the game works, to keep it interesting) the more you play the game the harder it gets to do better and better in it.

Finally the mini-game or smaller game should simulate the movement from someone only responding to the immediate situation to being able to plan ahead.
That is what I was thinking, let me know how you think.

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Mon, 10/17/2016 - 15:58
#5
Gabe
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Ok. That makes a lot more

Ok. That makes a lot more sense.

This could also work if your main characters were children. Then, your theme could be set in any time period you want.

What if a player starts with a certain amount of "understanding" tokens. On a player board, there are paths for the tokens to be placed on that lead from one thought to another. There are many paths that intertwine and lead to different "ideas." It would basically be a modified tech tree.

Throughout the game, players gain more tokens. Some can be temporary (only lasting for a turn) and some can be permanent which would lead to a player being more proficient or actually learning a new skill or knowing how to use a certain item.

The number of tokens on a path could determine how likely the player is to pass a test. For instance, if a player is entangled and has no tokens on the "sharp object" track, he'll need to roll a 6 to pass the test. But if he has two tokens on the "sharp object" track, he'll need to roll a 4+ to pass the test.

Just some thoughts...

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