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I dare you to find something to say about my rules book.

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evansmind244
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Do you have any questions? Thank you for your time. Thank you for anything you have to say.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxg5oSgam3_Mb3VKU1NaU3dvOGs
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxg5oSgam3_McVYyd21hTzcyV2M

tikey
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I've only skimmed it but I'll

I've only skimmed it but I'll give you some advice a graphic designer told me recently for my own rulebook. Give it more air. There's too much information in a single page, all competing for attention. Give more room to each section.
Also, while it's good to emphasize pieces and term with bold there's too much of it (at least in the first page) that it's sort of counterproductive, it makes everything busier.

Also more on a personal preference. At the start you wrote in a sort of bullet pointy way the "introduction", "objective" and "how to win". I think that would work better all combined as a narrative witout having to separate those parts so rigidly.

I'll look more into it later, hope this helps.

richdurham
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Only a note on the nature of headlines

Must they always sound so click-baity?

Before I take the time to look at your rules, I'd like to know if you have specific questions.

Mosker
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Two quick thoughts:

Cut out 30% of the text, minimum: your ideas are strong and self-explanatory enough for the padding, explanations, reminders, and hype to do you a serious disservice.

Consider using colors that only appear on the game components when specifically referring to those components.

Look forward to seeing the next versions.

Glass shoe games
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tikey wrote:I've only skimmed

tikey wrote:
I've only skimmed it but I'll give you some advice a graphic designer told me recently for my own rulebook. Give it more air. There's too much information in a single page, all competing for attention. Give more room to each section.
Also, while it's good to emphasize pieces and term with bold there's too much of it (at least in the first page) that it's sort of counterproductive, it makes everything busier.

Also more on a personal preference. At the start you wrote in a sort of bullet pointy way the "introduction", "objective" and "how to win". I think that would work better all combined as a narrative witout having to separate those parts so rigidly.

I'll look more into it later, hope this helps.


I second this. There is an entire book on each page.

evansmind244
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richdurham wrote:Must they

richdurham wrote:
Must they always sound so click-baity?

Before I take the time to look at your rules, I'd like to know if you have specific questions.

Specifically I would like to know if the Objective and Theme make sense to you? Could you Start the game after reading Set Up and Over View? What am I over explaining and what am I missing about making rules concise and comprehendible? I appreciate your time. Thank you.

evansmind244
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tikey wrote:I've only skimmed

tikey wrote:
I've only skimmed it but I'll give you some advice a graphic designer told me recently for my own rulebook. Give it more air. There's too much information in a single page, all competing for attention. Give more room to each section.
Also, while it's good to emphasize pieces and term with bold there's too much of it (at least in the first page) that it's sort of counterproductive, it makes everything busier.

Also more on a personal preference. At the start you wrote in a sort of bullet pointy way the "introduction", "objective" and "how to win". I think that would work better all combined as a narrative witout having to separate those parts so rigidly.

I'll look more into it later, hope this helps.

I put the components in bold thinking that will help readers reference the specific rules for those components later on PG 3.
-Is there a rule of thumb on what should be bold and what shouldn't?
-Would you say I should leave the Set Up and Overview as is, and just remove the bold?
-Also on the same topic. Is it appropriate to Capitalize the components throughout the rules?
I really appreciate your personal preference on the Intro, Objective and how to win. I'll combine that and see how it turns out. Thank you for your advice and time.

evansmind244
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Mosker wrote:Cut out 30% of

Mosker wrote:
Cut out 30% of the text, minimum: your ideas are strong and self-explanatory enough for the padding, explanations, reminders, and hype to do you a serious disservice.

Consider using colors that only appear on the game components when specifically referring to those components.

Look forward to seeing the next versions.

I've would be grateful if you could point me to specifically what you are referring to with the padding, explanations, reminders and hype. If a phone call would be easier than typing a long reply, I'd PM you my number. Thank you for taking time to look over my rules book. I appreciate it!!

tikey
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evansmind244 wrote:I put the

evansmind244 wrote:
I put the components in bold thinking that will help readers reference the specific rules for those components later on PG 3.
-Is there a rule of thumb on what should be bold and what shouldn't?
-Would you say I should leave the Set Up and Overview as is, and just remove the bold?
-Also on the same topic. Is it appropriate to Capitalize the components throughout the rules?
I really appreciate your personal preference on the Intro, Objective and how to win. I'll combine that and see how it turns out. Thank you for your advice and time.

I've read recommendations that said that you should bold the component only the first time you mention it. But it's not a hard rule. In your case I still think it'll be too much bold.
Think of it this way, bold is used to highlight important information, if you highlight everything then it loses it's purpose. Prioritize, think about the information that really needs to stand out and use bold on those bits of information.
Set up a hierarchy, compartmentalize and organize your sections. Think of your rulebook as a narrative and ease the player into reading it.

Use a bigger different font for section titles like "set up" so it's easy to find your way around the rulebook.

evansmind244
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tikey wrote:evansmind244

tikey wrote:
evansmind244 wrote:
I put the components in bold thinking that will help readers reference the specific rules for those components later on PG 3.
-Is there a rule of thumb on what should be bold and what shouldn't?
-Would you say I should leave the Set Up and Overview as is, and just remove the bold?
-Also on the same topic. Is it appropriate to Capitalize the components throughout the rules?
I really appreciate your personal preference on the Intro, Objective and how to win. I'll combine that and see how it turns out. Thank you for your advice and time.

I've read recommendations that said that you should bold the component only the first time you mention it. But it's not a hard rule. In your case I still think it'll be too much bold.
Think of it this way, bold is used to highlight important information, if you highlight everything then it loses it's purpose. Prioritize, think about the information that really needs to stand out and use bold on those bits of information.
Set up a hierarchy, compartmentalize and organize your sections. Think of your rulebook as a narrative and ease the player into reading it.

Use a bigger different font for section titles like "set up" so it's easy to find your way around the rulebook.

Tikey, thank you for your advice which has been well received. Definitely need to open things up, and give each page some space. When I get the rules compartmentalized, concise and Perfect I will be letting a Graphic Designer work His magic on it. If you ever need an "average joe" to look over your work, Let me know. Evan

ssm
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Too Wordy

Overall I think it is too wordy & over-explained.
For instance- there is a section that describes the spaces. IMO, if you have to explain the board's spaces in a rulebook, the spaces on the board don't have the correct info on them.
I think the same can be said about the cards.

I don't think you need the pictures of cards in the rules.

This one isn't about the book or board- One of the most complained about features of board games is having to roll a particular number to 'win' by getting to the final space. May I ask why you are starting a game with that feature? If the 'roll for 4' goes around the table a few times, someone will probably walk away.
I can see a review in the future simply state- "Each holiday season we set up this game, but we have never actually played it...since nobody has yet to roll a 4 before we are bored."

I would also suggest a name change to Xmas Fever or similar. Think long-term; there are other religious holidays around the same time; maybe each will have it's own game one day?

On the calendar on the board, some days have periods at the end of sentences & some don't.

On the board there is a space called 'Store WegotYas'. What is a 'yas' or 'gotyas'? Do you mean 'got you' or 'gotcha'?

Mosker
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Insufficient but hopefully informative example

evansmind244 wrote:
Mosker wrote:
Cut out 30% of the text, minimum: your ideas are strong and self-explanatory enough for the padding, explanations, reminders, and hype to do you a serious disservice.

Consider using colors that only appear on the game components when specifically referring to those components.

Look forward to seeing the next versions.

I've would be grateful if you could point me to specifically what you are referring to with the padding, explanations, reminders and hype. If a phone call would be easier than typing a long reply, I'd PM you my number. Thank you for taking time to look over my rules book. I appreciate it!!

(I am assuming this part of the setup where everyone gets a starting gift and GVC from a communal pot rather something specific to a player? If not, apologies for shallow reading.)

Before:
Christmas Party: You host a Christmas party at your house. Be a good host and pass out 1 Gift & GVC to each player. Once each player has their Gift & GVC everyone opens up their Gift and exposes the Gift and GVC to the other players. Once everyone including yourself have opened their Gift, and shown it to the other players, place the GVC beneath the Gift and place them both face down in front of you. You will keep your Gifts & GVC’s face down, except when instructed throughout the game.

After:
Christmas Party: Deal one Gift & one GVC, both face up,to each player. Once players have examined eachothers' gifts and GVCs, all are turned face down.

evansmind244
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ssm wrote:Overall I think it

ssm wrote:
Overall I think it is too wordy & over-explained.
For instance- there is a section that describes the spaces. IMO, if you have to explain the board's spaces in a rulebook, the spaces on the board don't have the correct info on them.
I think the same can be said about the cards.

I don't think you need the pictures of cards in the rules.

This one isn't about the book or board- One of the most complained about features of board games is having to roll a particular number to 'win' by getting to the final space. May I ask why you are starting a game with that feature? If the 'roll for 4' goes around the table a few times, someone will probably walk away.
I can see a review in the future simply state- "Each holiday season we set up this game, but we have never actually played it...since nobody has yet to roll a 4 before we are bored."

I would also suggest a name change to Xmas Fever or similar. Think long-term; there are other religious holidays around the same time; maybe each will have it's own game one day?

On the calendar on the board, some days have periods at the end of sentences & some don't.

On the board there is a space called 'Store WegotYas'. What is a 'yas' or 'gotyas'? Do you mean 'got you' or 'gotcha'?

SSM, I can't thank you enough for going through the rules and looking at the Board. Thank YOU!!
-Spelling Errors and punctuation well received. Thank you. We Gotcha!!

-Highest roll goes first now!! Good point on players never rolling a 4.

-Name Change is not likely---I just love Holiday Fever!! Hanukkah Fever is a simple transition....you light the candles on the Menorah instead of decorate your Tree!! Do a dreidel instead of dice!!

-The board spaces which I have explanations for are in the rules because those board spaces have caused confusion for players in the past. I have been on the fence about text on the board vs Iconography. Still I'm pulled toward putting awesome Art/Iconography on the board and keeping text very short or punch lines only. Ultimately I need a writer to learn the game and write the rules. I've learned I'm just horrible at writing rules. Do you know anyone who'd be willing to write the rules for me? I'm willing to pay!!
Would you say just eliminate the Tips and Examples on PG 4 completely?
Thank you again for taking time to help me work through this. Evan

evansmind244
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Mosker wrote:evansmind244

Mosker wrote:
evansmind244 wrote:
Mosker wrote:
Cut out 30% of the text, minimum: your ideas are strong and self-explanatory enough for the padding, explanations, reminders, and hype to do you a serious disservice.

Consider using colors that only appear on the game components when specifically referring to those components.

Look forward to seeing the next versions.

I've would be grateful if you could point me to specifically what you are referring to with the padding, explanations, reminders and hype. If a phone call would be easier than typing a long reply, I'd PM you my number. Thank you for taking time to look over my rules book. I appreciate it!!

(I am assuming this part of the setup where everyone gets a starting gift and GVC from a communal pot rather something specific to a player? If not, apologies for shallow reading.)

Before:
Christmas Party: You host a Christmas party at your house. Be a good host and pass out 1 Gift & GVC to each player. Once each player has their Gift & GVC everyone opens up their Gift and exposes the Gift and GVC to the other players. Once everyone including yourself have opened their Gift, and shown it to the other players, place the GVC beneath the Gift and place them both face down in front of you. You will keep your Gifts & GVC’s face down, except when instructed throughout the game.

After:
Christmas Party: Deal one Gift & one GVC, both face up,to each player. Once players have examined eachothers' gifts and GVCs, all are turned face down.

Mosker, awesome awesome awesome!! Thank you. AFTER is so much better!! Thank YOU!!!!!

tikey
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Evan, I don't think you need

Evan, I don't think you need a writer, have you read the articles about rule writing recommended in Boardgame design lab (http://www.boardgamedesignlab.com/rules/)?
It might be of help.

evansmind244
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tikey wrote:Evan, I don't

tikey wrote:
Evan, I don't think you need a writer, have you read the articles about rule writing recommended in Boardgame design lab (http://www.boardgamedesignlab.com/rules/)?
It might be of help.

Tikey, I haven't read through that yet... Thank you for the Link!! I've read several articles where designers suggest having a 3rd party write the rules. Everyone is telling me that its over explained. When I read what Mosker wrote above..... Much better!!

Board Game Design Lab is really CRUSHIN it!!! Thanks Gabe

Mosker
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Status of game?

You're welcome. How far along are you in your playtesting? One of the reason I chose that chunk because unlike the middle section of rules, there are fewer dependencies and connections to other paragraphs, making it easier to show what I was talking about without seriously screwing up my message and yours.

(Happy to help, just don't want to spend too much of all of our time when things are still in flux--a lesson I learned helping my (eventual) wife finish her dissertation: "What do you mean that chapter is completely restructured? It sat on your desk untouched for months and you rewrite it 24 hours after you gave it to me?"

evansmind244
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Mosker wrote:You're welcome.

Mosker wrote:
You're welcome. How far along are you in your playtesting? One of the reason I chose that chunk because unlike the middle section of rules, there are fewer dependencies and connections to other paragraphs, making it easier to show what I was talking about without seriously screwing up my message and yours.

(Happy to help, just don't want to spend too much of all of our time when things are still in flux--a lesson I learned helping my (eventual) wife finish her dissertation: "What do you mean that chapter is completely restructured? It sat on your desk untouched for months and you rewrite it 24 hours after you gave it to me?"

I am doing Blind Play-testing. The game has been play-tested over the past 4 years at a snails pace. I work on ships so I get time to fix things while I'm at sea. The biggest problem for play testers has been the Rules which makes that first game difficult to grasp. I'm getting closer with the rules over all and I'll begin more blind-play testing this month to see how the updated rules are received.
Unfortunately I tried Coalitiongames.com but Mike only got the game play-tested twice before he decided that he couldn't move forward with the game because it would ruin his reputation with his play-testers, and because Roll and Play is an outdated mechanic..... I took the feedback I did get from him and changed the rules drastically. Then posted here on BGDF. Still haven't had a chance to up date the rules from all the great feedback you and other have posted here. On a family vacation right now!!
The mechanics work great, the game goes smooth in 20-45 minuets on the second game. First game is a different story, which is why my conclusion is the Rules are the reason my game isn't accessible on the first play through. I've never had players, including a few 8-10 year olds, not be able to explain and teach the game to others going into their second game.
In short I'm play-testing only to see if people can comprehend the rules at this point. The game is definitely not broken, and plays smoothly.

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