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new/ hero/villain dice card game

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questccg
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Not sure I understand

How are the dice supposed to work now?

Red dice faces =

  • Miss: Wasted dice roll
  • Double Star: Double element (what is this???)
  • Single Star: Single element (what is this???)
  • Speech: Character Abilities
  • Range 100: Range damage of 100 points
  • Melee 100: Melee damage of 100 points

And you roll 5 or is it 6 of these dice Red dice???

Blue dice faces =

  • Heart 100: Heals 100 damage points
  • Shield 100: Blocks 100 damage points
  • The others are like above (I guess)

Please clarify about some of those dice faces...

jedite1000
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6 red and blue dice are

6 red and blue dice are used

Red
Punch - melee dmg only
Range -bench dmg only
Star - elemental. Let's say my fire dude combo is punch fire. The star is the fire
Double star.- Same as above but better chance to get combo in case a combo is punch fire fire. You will only need the double star to get the combo
Speech - special abilities of the champions

Shield and heart are correct

questccg
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Okay I understand...

The "Star" is for your Heroes/Villains "ELEMENT"! And double is as if you had rolled two of them for some more powerful abilities, right?

Gotcha - sounds good. Have you had a chance to roll some dice and see how the probabilities work out?

I'm just wondering it might be simpler to have TWO "Stars" than both a single and double star...

But I guess you can iron that out rolling the dice to see what works better. So with 6 dice, you need (For a Fireball) 1 Range attack + 2 Stars out of 6 dice... Sounds reasonable.

jedite1000
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yeah, just gives an extra

yeah, just gives an extra chance, plus i was thinking when rolling the dice you could give multiple combos to both champions and let them attack at the same time

so for an example

My results are

Range , fist, star, double star, miss

Firedude and lavadude is on my field

Firedude has a combo of fist/fire

Lavadude has a combo of Range/fire/fire

Both have the combo available so both can attack at the same time

questccg
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makes perfect sense...

I figure you can "swap" the element for another one that one of your bench characters may have. So Flame-Dude and Shower-Dude attacking at the same time combo-ing with different "elements".

Am I understanding correctly?

jedite1000
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Yeah, i was originally going

Yeah, i was originally going to have different element dice like fire, water, ect but that is just too many dice so i just added a star in its place so the star is whatever the element of the character is

However it only works for the characters on the battlefield and not the bench, you would need to swap champions first before rolling the dice as it wouldn't be fair if you got a good result and your bench champion has a good combo and you can just swap champions to use the combo

questccg
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A different idea

jedite1000 wrote:
Yeah, i was originally going to have different element dice like fire, water, ect but that is just too many dice so i just added a star in its place so the star is whatever the element of the character is...

Why not introduce "Element"-dice per character. Your "standard" dice for attacking are 2 Melee, 2 Range, 1 Speech and 1 Miss (Blank). For the "defending" Player: 2 Shields, 2 Heart, 1 Speech and 1 Miss (Blank).

Each player gets 5 of these dice each.

BUT to this you ADD an "Element"-dice for characters: Like RED for "Fire" element but instead of the "symbol", use pips (like on Standard dice) - but have 1, 2 or 3 as values and the rest Miss (Blank)... Each "Element"-dice can be balanced DIFFERENTLY.

Like "Nature" (Green) could have values 1, 2, 3 or 4, and 2 Miss (Blank). Meaning the odds for "powerful" combo are "HIGHER".

I'm just thinking about VARIABILITY and "replay-value"... Something you can think about. I'm not sure this is a sure-fire (pun intended! LOL) way to make your game "expandable" with NEW dice + Characters.

Just a thought! Cheers...

Note: With 4 successful values instead of only 3, the "Nature" characters could have WEAKER "Power-Attacks" but they may occur more often. Or the characters may have LESS "Health" and therefore do more damage to protect themselves. As they say: "The BEST Defense is having the BEST Offense!" Something along those lines.

Super-Tooned
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You make me sick.

questccg wrote:
jedite1000 wrote:
Yeah, i was originally going to have different element dice like fire, water, ect but that is just too many dice so i just added a star in its place so the star is whatever the element of the character is...

Why not introduce "Element"-dice per character. Your "standard" dice for attacking are 2 Melee, 2 Range, 1 Speech and 1 Miss (Blank). For the "defending" Player: 2 Shields, 2 Heart, 1 Speech and 1 Miss (Blank).

Each player gets 5 of these dice each.

BUT to this you ADD an "Element"-dice for characters: Like RED for "Fire" element but instead of the "symbol", use pips (like on Standard dice) - but have 1, 2 or 3 as values and the rest Miss (Blank)... Each "Element"-dice can be balanced DIFFERENTLY.

Like "Nature" (Green) could have values 1, 2, 3 or 4, and 2 Miss (Blank). Meaning the odds for "powerful" combo are "HIGHER".

I'm just thinking about VARIABILITY and "replay-value"... Something you can think about. I'm not sure this is a sure-fire (pun intended! LOL) way to make your game "expandable" with NEW dice + Characters.

Just a thought! Cheers...

Note: With 4 successful values instead of only 3, the "Nature" characters could have WEAKER "Power-Attacks" but they may occur more often. Or the characters may have LESS "Health" and therefore do more damage to protect themselves. As they say: "The BEST Defense is having the BEST Offense!" Something along those lines.

We try to do it the professional way but that didn't work. Jedite is trying to do his own thing but you are telling him to do your idea. I don't understand how you are an admin. You're a terrible person. You tell me to think before telling people what to do then you turn around an do this. You make me want to vomit.

Go ahead ban me. I'm done with this. Remove my account. I am done and I am a game designer.

SuperTooned
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questccg
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You still don't get it ... do you?!

Super-Tooned wrote:
We try to do it the professional way but that didn't work. Jedite is trying to do his own thing but you are telling him to do your idea. I don't understand how you are an admin. You're a terrible person. You tell me to think before telling people what to do then you turn around an do this. You make me want to vomit.

We are not "telling" what Jedite1000 should do... We are only suggesting avenues he may want to explore. My response to Jedite1000 message was this: He said he thought about having Element dice... But said that would be too many dice...

So I suggested instead of adding TOO MANY dice... Just add ONE (1) per character -- and make it custom to the Superhero.

I think it's because you don't understand what this "Forum" stands for. It's a way people can exchange ideas and help one another out. And just because a thread has been hot doesn't mean every one should STOP posting on it... On the contrary!

It is you who doesn't understand what sharing ideas and collaborating (who cares if we don't get any credit...) Jedite1000 will remember the contributions of the various designers that shared their opinions, offered up examples of other solutions and worked together to help refine and refactor his design.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It is you who are in the wrong. You do not understand what "cooperation" and "collaboration" mean. We don't want to ban you, perhaps you'll learn something (IDK how - who taught you to be so guarded and at the same time say whatever you think without consideration for others)...

If you don't like what you read in a thread, you may choose to IGNORE it. It maybe has nothing to do with you... So please stop telling everyone else what it is THEY should be doing. This forum is an open place for the exchange of ideas and should inspire "collaboration". And to be honest, we don't get many threads like Jedite1000 ... because most people are either afraid to share their design or to collaborate with other designers.

I'm sorry Tucker -- but it is YOU who are in the wrong.

I'm disappointed that your parents, relatives, teachers, etc. have not taught you how to "collaborate" and "share ideas" and work WITH people... That is what this forum is about. It is also a place to post questions and ask for alternate solutions, and generally a place to HELP one another.

Sincerely,

Kristopher
Aka QuestCCG
"Indie" Game Designer
BGDF Moderator - Publisher List

questccg
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Getting back to the thread...

You do see what I mean by ONLY "introducing" one (1) VARIABLE dice. Maybe you could USE your CARD "background" (the stripes with 2 colors) and MATCH you dice to those 2 colors. Like for Fire-dude, one Red and one Yellow. So the dice would be RED with YELLOW PIPS!

The good thing is that it could add a HUGE amount of replayability... With all the character classes and each have their own "dice-feel" to a character... It pretty much makes each character DIFFERENT.

And you could have COOL dice with all kinds of colors matching the various "elements" of you game...

I think your elements idea is a good one... but it needed something else to make it truly "shine"... And I think that custom dice per "element" is exactly a simple "addition" to the existing game.

Cheers.

questccg
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One more clarification...

Super-Tooned wrote:
...Go ahead ban me. I'm done with this. Remove my account. I am done and I am a game designer.

SuperTooned
Professional Game Designer

Yes Tucker you are a 9 year old Game Designer. Bravo! Wonder how good your grades are in school... Which in your case is "Back to School" and very soon.

Please don't bother the other adults with your "banter".

If you want to post about Game Design -- Feel free. Otherwise stop bothering everyone with your useless and offensive comments.

Thank you,

Kristopher
Aka QuestCCG
"Indie" Game Designer
BGDF Moderator - Publisher List

questccg
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Again my apologies...

So yeah... Jedite1000, how is the Bench going to work with the Front Line???

Because you said you WANTED "combos" from other characters -- but my assumption was that they were on "the bench"?! You said something like "bench characters" could not partake in combat...

So how do you do COMBOS with more than one character???

FrankM
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That's... a lot of dice.

questccg wrote:
You do see what I mean by ONLY "introducing" one (1) VARIABLE dice. Maybe you could USE your CARD "background" (the stripes with 2 colors) and MATCH you dice to those 2 colors. Like for Fire-dude, one Red and one Yellow. So the dice would be RED with YELLOW PIPS!

The good thing is that it could add a HUGE amount of replayability... With all the character classes and each have their own "dice-feel" to a character... It pretty much makes each character DIFFERENT.

And you could have COOL dice with all kinds of colors matching the various "elements" of you game...

I think your elements idea is a good one... but it needed something else to make it truly "shine"... And I think that custom dice per "element" is exactly a simple "addition" to the existing game.

Cheers.


If I understand this correctly, that could be a lot of dice.
You need one copy of the element die for each character of that element who could be active at a time. Suppose that each element has three heroes and three villains associated with it... six of each element die across nine elements. It's a neat idea, but could get expensive to include so many dice.

Now if each element has two colors distributed somewhat carefully, including four of each color might work (two per player, with some scarcity to force variety). Still quite a few dice, but not as many and it creates some relationships between elements.

questccg
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Expandability only

FrankM wrote:
If I understand this correctly, that could be a lot of dice...

Think of it in terms of "expandability". When you play you build your TEAM, say of 5 heroes. That's 5 extra dice... Then you go and play the game against your friends.

I'm not suggesting Jedite1000 do ALL of the custom dice yet. On the contrary, he could have "expansions" which ADD a custom dice to encourage people to get that character... On a Kickstarter that would be BEAUTIFUL... Because not only do you get a character card -- you also get a CUSTOM faction die.

FrankM wrote:
Now if each element has two colors distributed somewhat carefully, including four of each color might work (two per player, with some scarcity to force variety). Still quite a few dice, but not as many and it creates some relationships between elements.

Like you say, this creates relationships and some elements will behave the same way as another. I'm not too clear on the AMOUNT of characters a player can play in ONE (1) game???

Is this like one (1) character and two (2) bench characters? Or is it supposed to be like five (5) characters and you RANDOMLY choose three (3)??? Was just wondering about that aspect because I'm uncertain about the amount and "benching" of characters...

Super-Tooned
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questccg wrote:Super-Tooned

questccg wrote:
Super-Tooned wrote:
...Go ahead ban me. I'm done with this. Remove my account. I am done and I am a game designer.

SuperTooned
Professional Game Designer

Yes Tucker you are a 9 year old Game Designer. Bravo! Wonder how good your grades are in school... Which in your case is "Back to School" and very soon.

Please don't bother the other adults with your "banter".

If you want to post about Game Design -- Feel free. Otherwise stop bothering everyone with your useless and offensive comments.

Thank you,

Kristopher
Aka QuestCCG
"Indie" Game Designer
BGDF Moderator - Publisher List

That was uncalled for. That's unprofessional. I'm not 9. Do not call what I think banter. You've crossed the line. You think he has too many Dice. Not anyone else.

I do know what is wrong. I do have good parents! I do have good teachers. I do have a good mentor. Just because I'm in school doesn't make me any less of a game designer. I have designed two successful games so far and I intend on making more.

Oh! And one more clarification, you still make me sick.

questccg
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What about the sales model

FrankM wrote:
You need one copy of the element die for each character of that element who could be active at a time. Suppose that each element has three heroes and three villains associated with it... six of each element die across nine elements. It's a neat idea, but could get expensive to include so many dice.

When you put it that way, I understand. I wasn't sure how many characters would be used in a battle. And maybe using a RPS-9 could streamline HOW you build a party, with complimentary characters.

I wasn't too certain about how Jedite1000 plans to SELL his game. Is it going to be like a "party deck", where you get enough characters for one team. In that case it could be like five (5) characters which complement each other... And each player would need his/her own "party deck".

Or was he trying to bundle everything into one single box and just have a bunch of characters... That too is a possibility.

It's kind of hard to picture what course is the better one. Although I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on the sales model... To me it is really sounding like a TCG (Trading Card Game) where people can make deals with their characters and make trades, etc. IDK if this is the direction...

Or is it just a two (2) player game with everything that comes with it?

jedite1000
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Have not been online for

Have not been online for awhile as im bit sick though when i come back, ill be changing a few mechanics nothing too drastic though

for now im only going to sell the game on the gamecrafter as it has all the components i need

FrankM
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Get well soon

jedite1000 wrote:
Have not been online for awhile as im bit sick though when i come back, ill be changing a few mechanics nothing too drastic though

for now im only going to sell the game on the gamecrafter as it has all the components i need


Get well soon!

So, does TGC have dice in the zillion different colors we'd been talking about?

FrankM
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Dicey situation

questccg,

Last I recall, there can be up to two active characters, but any character that ever took an action is face-up and could be targeted. So if each character is going to have a personal die in addition to the common dice pool, that means up to one die per character on a team, in enough different flavors to cover all the elements.

Reducing the set of colors would help here (for example, fire gets to pick red or yellow, and another element or two use red, and another element or two use yellow), but still a lot.

questccg
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Dice + Stickers

FrankM wrote:
...So, does TGC have dice in the zillion different colors we'd been talking about?

TGC's solution to dice is indented dice with STICKERS. Like this:

http://www.thegamecrafter.com/parts/d6-indented-blank-blue

Which means you can PRINT whatever you like on the stickers:

http://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/product/DiceSticker

In that sample the colors looks almost B&W -- but they are full color and you can print on them whatever you like.

FrankM
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I've seen those in prototypes

I've seen the sticker dice in prototypes, but I was thinking of this:

https://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/product/CustomAcrylicD6

Except I don't see a list of available colors.

questccg
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WYSIWYG

FrankM wrote:
...Except I don't see a list of available colors.

Those are the colors. That's all you can do: White on Red, Black and Blue. Black on White.

You'd be better off using the dice + sticker and get the colors you want.

Alternatively you have the game made in China after a Kickstarter... But I know that's not in the plan right now.

FrankM
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Ah

questccg wrote:
You'd be better off using the dice + sticker and get the colors you want.

So the choices for sticker-dice bodies are black, blue, dark blue, dark gray, dark red, fresh green, green, ivory, light blue, orange, purple, red, turquoise, white, yellow, and "yellow ma" (whatever that is). There are some discontinued colors listed, but I'd avoid those if the plan is for ongoing manufacturing on their platform.

questccg
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Better selection

I would avoid things like "Red" and "Dark Red" it could lead to confusion. Instead I would just pick ONE (1) "Red" color and go with that.

Here's another idea I had... Which is in a way very "bitching". You'll tell me what you guys thing about it! LOL

So while I would choose ONE (1) indented dice of each COLOR, I would print a limited amount of STICKERS... Basically you would need to CHOOSE between Red-Yellow, Blue-Yellow and Green-Yellow!!! Where Red-Yellow is Fire element and Blue-Yellow is the Water element and Green-Yellow is Earth (something like that)...

Basically what I am saying is that WHEN you PUT the stickers ON - You make a "choice" of one character over another...

I know the idea seems a little "convoluted" ... But yeah in a way it's really COOL - because your game becomes a CUSTOM game. You chose how to configure the dice to use which "characters".

It would force you to think and maybe buy multiple boxes to play with all the characters. Yeah I know it's kinda "over the top"... But hey it might make the game more unique and customisable...


You could maybe use a RPS-5 to simplified the color selection process. The nice thing is that an RPS-5 can be easily broken down into 5 RPS-3 where the relationships are simpler.

I'll just post up that information and you guys can do with it whatever you like...

questccg
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Here are the RPS-5 sequences

Okay so they may be a little daunting at first but these are the five (5) RPS-3 for an RPS-5:

RPS-3 Sticker Color
Red -> Green -> Blue -> Red White
Red -> White -> Blue -> Red Black
Red -> White -> Black -> Red Green
White -> Black -> Green -> White Blue
Black -> Green -> Blue -> Black Red

And this will give you out of all the elements, 5 DISTINCT elements and you can "mix & match" the colors. I know it's "convoluted" but it works.

Here's are some SAMPLES:

Sample #1:

Red + White
White + Black
Black + Green
Green + Blue
Blue + Red

Sample #2:

Green + White
White + Black
Red + Green
Black + Blue
Blue + Red

Basically you choose one (1) of three colors and to match with the Sticker Color... And then you continue matching and choosing to create a unique combination of Heroes/Villains.

Cheers!

questccg
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RPS-5 colors

Here I figured I'd list out some "classes" for the RPS-5 colors.

Red = Fire
Green = Nature
Blue = Water
Black = Chaos
White = Order

This is also a "cross" too:

Red(Fire)<-->Green(Nature)<-->Blue(Water)
White(Order)<-->Green(Nature)<-->Black(Chaos)

Those are BOTH "axis" (where Green is in the center).

And I can't display the RPS-5 ... I would have to work on designing one. But anyways you get the idea...

questccg
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Here is the "cross" relating to the classes

questccg
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The above cross depicts the relationship

On the horizontal we have ELEMENTS (much like in your design).

And on the vertical we have the LAWS (which add a dimension to your design).

The idea is this: Each Superhero or Villain is in one of these five (5) classes.

You could have a "Order" Villain like "Dr. Doom" (Fantastic 4) or you can have a "Chaotic" Villain like "Carnage" (Spiderman). I know you had a bunch of other "elements"...

This is a more organized diagram showing the oppositions each character may have be it laws or elements. And "Nature" is in the middle... It can be "wild" or "where the strongest survive" (Neutral law) or it can be an "element" like the ground/earth we walk on...

FrankM
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RPS-5

I'm not sure how helpful the "cross" diagram is, since it doesn't really get at the relationships between the various elements. A pentagram makes it easier to illustrate the relationships.

There is one famous RPS-5 out there:

Assigning colors,

  • BLACK is Rock
  • BLUE is Spock
  • GREEN is Lizard
  • RED is Scissors
  • WHITE is Paper
questccg
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You are correct

I just didn't have an RPS-5 handy. I wanted to show how you could "transform" those relationships into an easy "cross" shaped where the various elements and laws could be shown together.

Good you found an RPS-5 ... because that's how you build the RPS-3 from that diagram.

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