Skip to Content

Dice mechanic, simple enough?

6 replies [Last post]
X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013

So I had a lot of thought about to make my game simplified as much as possible.

This also included to get rid of as many dice rolls as possible. However, the RPS was in danger because of this. So I needed to include an extra level of RPS.

The 1:2 damage:health ratio will now be 1:3 again. That is ok.

Not only that, but my 8 health units will be gone (for now). So it is 1, 2 or 4 health with 1, 2 or 4 damage.
If I want to include 8 health, I need yet another set of rolls. But it is possible to do that.

When combat occurs, there will be several rolls still. But maybe it is easy enough to grasp. So please, tell me if the following is easy enough for normal player.

***

The maximum of 4 dice rolls in combat are now as following:

- Enemy is in a semi passable terrain? [rare]
Rolling 3 or less per projectile for a hit.
Hits remain in the dice pool.

- Normal roll (accuracy). [always]
Rolling 3 or less per projectile for a hit.
Hits remain in the dice pool.

- RPS roll (depending on the target and done 1 by 1).
Damage and maximum health are compared. Roll accordingly. [always]
* 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2 or 4 vs 4.
Rolling 4 or less per projectile for a hit.
* 1 vs 2 or 2 vs 4
Rolling 2 or less per projectile for a hit.
* 1 vs 4
Rolling 1 or less per projectile for a hit.

- Durability roll (goes together with the RPS roll when needed). [rare]
Rolling X or less per projectile for a hit.

***

eg.
The 6 rifle infantry (1 damage) are targeting a tank (4 health) that is hiding in a semi passable terrain.
- Rolling 3 or less per projectile for a hit.
- Rolling 3 or less per projectile for a hit.
- Rolling 1 or less per projectile for a hit.
Any hit will do 1 damage.
There is a 22% chance there will be 1 damage.

eg2.
The 6 rifle infantry (1 damage) are targeting a tank (4 health).
- Rolling 3 or less per projectile for a hit.
- Rolling 1 or less per projectile for a hit.
Any hit will do 1 damage.
There is a 32% chance there will be 1 damage.

eg3.
The 6 rifle infantry (1 damage) are targeting a vehicle (2 health).
- Rolling 3 or less per projectile for a hit.
- Rolling 2 or less per projectile for a hit.
Any hit will do 1 damage.
There is a 40% chance there will be 1 damage.
There is a 20% chance the vehicle will be destroyed.

eg4.
If the vehicle (2 damage) or tank (4 damage) would have returned fire.
- Rolling 3 or less per projectile for a hit.
- Rolling 2 or less per projectile for a hit by the vehicle. It is 1 or less by the tank.
There is a 17% chance the vehicle will kill 1 infantry.
There is a 8% chance the tank will kill 1 infantry.

***

The accuracy has as default 3. But the durability has 6. But if it is lower, projectiles have even less chance on hitting. I am not fond on this roll. I might even exclude it from the game.

As you can see, I have left out penalties and bonus rolls.
The rules for bonus are still to double up the damage. But the extra RPS should now be way above the effects. Yet bringing in balance where it should be.

Let me know what you guys think. It is either float or sink right now.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
If 8 health is to be included?

Every RPS roll would have one extra roll or "3 or less is a hit" in that regard. But only when 1 damage targets 8 health or 8 damage targets 1 health.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Pondering

Since changing the rules regarding range was not sufficient. This is currently my last solution. But there are still variables in this.

***

No extra RPS and 3 tiers will supply the players roughly a 1:00 hour game.

No extra RPS and 4 tiers will supply the players roughly a 1:40 hours game.

Normal tanks have a durability of 4 (100%).

***

Option 0
Now to include extra RPS. First one is like above, but tested with 3 tiers.

The first option I had was to have an extra die roll doing ≤4, ≤2, ≤1 or ≤3 * ≤1. On top of a ≤3 roll.

3 tiers gives roughly a 4:30 hours game.
4 tiers gives roughly a 13:40 hours game.
Normal tanks have a durability of 24 (600%).

Obviously a no go.

***

Option 1
I have to soften up the extra RPS. And luckily there is room for that. But it will be linear and players need to remember the linear aspect. There can be rules regarding linear.

This gives me:
≤6, ≤5, ≤4 or ≤3. On top of a ≤3 roll.

3 tiers gives roughly a 1:20 hours game.
4 tiers gives roughly a 2:45 hours game.
Normal tanks have a durability of 6 (150%).

***

Option 2

≤6, ≤4, ≤3 or ≤2. On top of a ≤3 roll.

3 tiers gives roughly a 1:40 hours game.
4 tiers gives roughly a 3:50 hours game.
Normal tanks have a durability of 8 (200%).

***

Option 1 and 2 are valid options. Still relatively easy for players to go with. Other options not posted here are too complex.

I like option 2 the most. Since tier 2 and 3 have a nice factor of 1,5 and 2. It follows linear on tier 1.
Of course, this means that I need to discard tier 4. Which would increase the time of the game by almost a factor 4.

Option 2, more details

What is the extra effect on the weapons then with the extra dice roll?
Against armor tier 1, 2, 3 and 4.
Tier 1; 6, 4, 3, 2
Tier 2; 4, 6, 4, 3
Tier 3; 3, 4, 6, 4
Tier 4; 2, 3, 4, 6

Translated to number of rounds needed to kill an opponent on average:
Tier 1; 2, 3, 4, 6
Tier 2; 3, 2, 3, 4
Tier 3; 4, 3, 2, 3
Tier 4; 6, 4, 3, 2

***

I'll put my snipers to the test again, against tanks+infantry that approach. If the snipers loose now, I will be happy. Both options are going to be tested like this.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Anydice is almost awesome

With anydice, I got myself some results. While not perfect. I did get some numbers on the following test.

I pitted snipers against infantry that have tanks as cover. The cover rule is exactly like A&A. So there is no mistake in this anymore with any simulator. Walls have also become more important with this. And the complexity for players went down while strategy went up.

Anyways, the snipers can have some free shots before the enemy is close enough to start fighting as well. The goal of the tests is to see if extra RPS is needed. And how much it adds to the strategy.

There are several keypoints to consider:
- When all tanks die.
- When all tanks die and 2 infantry remain.
- When all tanks and all infantry die.

Anydice can certainly tell me the moment that all tanks die. But the rest are often estimates. I can't split the change of projectiles from RPS to normal. Meaning, when the tanks are dead, the snipers will do more damage against infantry. This change, is probably impossible with anydice.

***

These are the armies that I tested:
Snipers:
- 4 Snipers that have a speed of 1 and a range of 4.
Each does 1*50% damage.
They can fire 1 to 3 times until the enemy is close enough to begin combat.
So I went with 12 dice, 8 dice and 4 dice.
- 3 Snipers that have a speed of 1 and a range of 7.
Each does 1*50% damage.
They can fire 1 to 6 times until the enemy is close enough to begin combat.
So I went with 18 dice, 15 dice, 12 dice, 9 dice, 6 dice, 3 dice.

Simply said, I builded a table of the following number of dice:
18, 15, 12, 9, 8, 6, 4 and 3.

Infantry with tanks:
- 4 Infantry with 1 tank as cover.
A total of 8 health against bullets.
- 2 Infantry with 2 tanks as cover.
A total of 10 health against bullets.

***

The RPS that I tested are the 2 options as said before. But also, what happens when extra RPS is not added?

- Tanks take 6/6th damage. 100% durability.
Total army is either 8 or 10 health.
- Tanks take 4/6th damage. 150% durability.
Total army is either 10 or 14 health.
- Tanks take 3/6th damage. 200% durability.
Total army is either 12 or 18 health.

Chances are different than taking the total health into account. I took a look at both to get a complete picture. This is only nessesary because anydice can't do the complete story.

***

I could post the percentages. But people tend not to care about them. Instead, the gameplay changes are interesting and can be visualised.

This in a next post. Got to go back to work.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Again a loophole that breaks the game

Since every unit gets to do 1 action per round. The bonus rule can be abused to a maximum. This means that this rule is broken now.

The original game allowed only 7 actions per player per round. This meant that it would be a bad idea to cut up the army in smaller pieces for a major part of the game. Only players with 6 or less squads could start "abusing" the rule. And it was only +50% back then. But hey, they where a losing side. Now the winning side has 100% bonus as well. This is bad, very bad for the game.

The previous version of the rule indicated that the bonus was only applied if both sides where fighting at the same time. But that made the rule rare since players tried to avoid it.

I am going to ask my cousin to write a simulator. But this will be without the bonus rule for now. Let's see what happens.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
My lonely quest continiu's

Despite not having that simulator yet. I did some more math. It turns out that I need that bonus rule for infantry vs tanks. Even more so if the RPS is sharper.
Durable units have much better chances then 1 hit = 1 kill units. This means that the infantry will relatively be more in the fodder zone then ever before.
They NEED that bonus rule!

What now?

All or nothinq

It is a simple concept; hopefully effective?

I could say, that the entire region where the units are selected. Is to exhaust completely either way.
No matter if one or all units/structures are used there, for attack or movement.

Splitting up is still possible. The moving part will be exhausted elsewhere. But if it is regrouping, units in the goal region are also exhausted for that round. Maybe they already are exhausted by another movement. But that would be a little bonus.

The result is that every unit in the selected region has to fight at once. And this means that the bonus rule is "weaker" for that squad.
The Snipers now all will fight at once, not 1 by 1.
No bonus for the snipers, huray!

An alternative
An alternative is that this rule only applies to firing. What we get now is that a smaller squad can still fire. And get that bonus rule.

But another part of the squad has to move!
And this has to be prior too!

So first, a part moves away.
And then any other player might know that the remaining units might also move to another spot.
Or will fight with the bonus rule.
This way, there can be bluff now AND abusement.

The abusement is only effective when different weapons are in the same region to begin with. Or some units have insufficient range. They simply have to move on.

***

The attack rule is as following now:
When a player decides to attack. A region is selected. Some or all units will attack. Already exausted units will not attack. All units will be exausted after the attack, regardless if they attack or not or not attack while not being exausted.

The move rule is as following now:
When a player decides to move. A group of units in one region are selected. These units will move to another location. There they will be exhausted.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
How to abuse now?

I already know the answer.

In case of the snipers. They are simply spread accross multiple regions.

How to counter this. Approach from a side with a squad. Less resistance too! In theory, these approaching squads could be small as well.

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut