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Dextrous - prototyping platform

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gibwalker
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Hey all, questccg invited me to post about my prototyping tool Dextrous, so I'll summarise it here.

What is Dextrous?

Dextrous is basically inbetween Canva and Nandeck, offering the combination of fast ui for prototyping combined with high-fidelity CMYK exports for global card game manufacturers.

Core Features

  • WYSIWYG layout editor
  • Spreadsheet-driven card generation (data-merge)
  • Print-and-play sheet generator
  • Tabletop Simulator and Screentop.gg export (+ images for other platforms)
  • CMYK PDF export for manufacturers (bleed, dielines, font embedding, color profiles, 100% K black text)
  • Advanced features like inline icon rendering, variables, custom styles, and more.

How Dextrous Works

  1. Designers create a layout template (for a card, tile, or board component for example).
  2. Enter data into the component editor table, or connect a Google sheets or a CSV file.
  3. Generate hundreds of components instantly (data-merge a card from each row).
  4. Export assets to a pdf to print at home, digital playtesting, or manufacturing.

Example Workflow:

  1. Upload custom images
  2. Create a card layout template.
  3. Fill out card data for each row (Or connect a Google sheet / CSV).
  4. Export:
    • a printable PDF deck
    • a Tabletop Simulator mod JSON
    • spritesheets + JSON for Screentop
    • 300dpi images for Game Crafter or Make Playing Cards
    • Manufacturer-ready CMYK pdfs for Launch Tabletop, Longpack, Watz games, etc. Design once, play anywhere.

Best For

  • Game designers creating custom card games
  • Board game designers prototyping and exporting to VTT's like Tabletop Simulator
  • Designers wanting to pitch games to publishers on Screentop
  • Print-and-play creators generating PnP pdfs
  • TCG designers making trading card prototypes with hundreds of cards from spreadsheet data
  • Designers exporting print-ready production files for manufacturers
  • Rapid tabletop prototyping across both digital and physical playtesting

Anyway that's the tool, but I'm planning to be more active here as a designer too. It's been 14 years since I've been on BGDF, and it brings back lots of fond memories for me.

Thanks for having me!

Gil

questccg
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Hmm... Just an IDEA to consider...

I know you have a website with some SPACE (Disk Usage) and you have like Project Counts... But if you have a bunch of projects and the website becomes "defunct" all your project content would be lost.

Again this is JUST AN IDEA... I'm not being a pain or a "stick in the mud", I'm just explaining my thought process...

So what would be of VALUE to you is HAVING a "Smartphone App" that mimics the functionality of your website. Maybe not 100% ... Some limited capacity or something like that.

Remember DOOM and the WAD files ... Was a huge compressed file with Music, Textures, Tiles and Maps. Well maybe you could create some kind of EXPORT FORMAT which can be made available on the WEBSITE and allows you to SYNC up with your computer. Again it's just an IDEA (don't blast me for being too vague)...

Lots of people have Smartphones and an APP of some kind that could work with a "sorta WAD" file could be generated from the WEBSITE and then DOWNLOADED to your HOME PC and then when you PLUG in you Smartphone to your computer, you can ACCESS the "WAD" file and all it's content.

I know it's double the WORK: maintaining a website AND a Smartphone App...

But if it was possible to make it "work" ... I'm not sure WHAT functionality you would need to mimic on the Smartphone App. But I think you understand what I mean. Some kind of OFFLINE option with limited capabilities ... But still YOU DON'T LOSE your projects if the website goes "defunct".

Or maybe even a piece of PC Software to do something similar. I know NanDeck is downloadable software... But I'm not suggesting 100% functionality. Just a way to DOWNLOAD your project and be able to "View" it (on a PC or Smartphone, etc. etc.) Just so the projects don't get lost.

Again these are just "concerns" and IDEAS. I'll let you the Developer determine what could be made and how you could handle it WITHOUT your website.

Please don't be MAD with me... I know you've invested a lot of time and money in making the website. I'm just voicing some "concerns" and maybe you might want to see how you CAN address them at a later time...

Sincerely.

questccg
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Yeah I read through my train of thought and...

And it's a bit VAGUE. I did that because I was unsure. I see from the website that there are several way to "EXPORT" data, in PDFs, PNGs, etc. So it seems like you already support some KIND of way of preserving DATA "offline".

I was just thinking IF your website is "defunct" you cannot recover your projects and you are therefore "stuck".

Again I'm being VAGUE... Like I said don't be MAD at me. I was just thinking about HOW(?) you could have this "engine" offline (when not via the "Cloud")...

Let me think about it some more... And come back when I have a more definite IDEA concerning the offline use of your platform. With "EXPORT" capabilities you can have the END PRODUCT but not the CONTENT CREATION aspect. It's like saving your Photoshop (.PSD) files to PNGs: yes you have the export content BUT you don't have the SOURCE file. And therefore you are left with FINAL product and not the method by which the files were created.

Again... Let me ponder this through and I'll give you my better opinion once I figure it out.

BTW great on you to make such a website/tool.

Cheers.

questccg
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Ok ... At least I have something CONTRUCTIVE to say!

What about having TIFF (Tagged Image File Format): Highly compatible with other applications, this format can save layers, transparency, and high color depth, acting as an excellent option for archiving layered files.

This can be opened by MANY paint programs and ALLOWS you guys to make the TIFF format according to the LAYERS you use in the website.

That's my suggestion. I know before it sounded a bit VAGUE... But I'd recommend a TIFF format which can be edited by Photoshop, PaintShop Pro and many other paint programs (such as GIMP, etc. etc.)

It's an OPEN FORMAT that supports RGB/CMYK, Layers, Transparency... You name it... It's got it (in the TIFF Format).

This is a more CONCLUSIVE idea and means that you can use the WEBSITE and PAY to get access to EXPORTING to TIFF format Image Files.

Wishing you all the best of success and I would check the TIFF format out for IMPROVED VALUE for YOUR website.

Best!

Note #1: This of course SOLVES the last problem of NOT being able to have a DYNAMIC WEBSITE (as you have) and an ARCHIVAL FORMAT which CAN be edited at a later time MANUALLY.

It's doesn't take AWAY ANY VALUE from you website and what you have designed and implemented.

On the contrary ... All it adds is a layer of security which means that there is a UNIVERSAL format which is COMPATIBLE for EDITING "offline".

And more importantly all it does is ADD VALUE. I would not go down the road of a proprietary File Format like the .PSD format from Adobe... And so TIFF is the best ALTERNATIVE adding HUGE VALUE and making ARCHIVING and safeguarding EASY.

Again best of success with your platform. Looks very dynamic!

gibwalker
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We do export source files yep!

Heya questccg! Sorry for the slow reply, I'm not used to not getting notifications for forum posts etc.

Something you might find useful to know is we're actually working on this full-time now so we're not going anywhere and it's in no risk of becoming defunt.

But regardless, we do already export the project data and layout data source files to json, so you can totally take your data with you wherever you want. So that's no concern at all.

Hope that makes sense!

Cheers,

Gil

questccg
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No worries...

gibwalker wrote:
Heya questccg! Sorry for the slow reply, I'm not used to not getting notifications for forum posts etc.

No worries.

gibwalker wrote:
Something you might find useful to know is we're actually working on this full-time now so we're not going anywhere and it's in no risk of becoming defunct.

Well you never know. We had not planned on someone DYING on our project and yet it happened... Mike, the Publishing Lead with all his connections and graphic know-how not to mention his capabilities in Music Editing ... Died at the hospital. His family was expected to pick him up and they were told that he sadly passed away. So you never know what can happen.

gibwalker wrote:
But regardless, we do already export the project data and layout data source files to json, so you can totally take your data with you wherever you want. So that's no concern at all.

Taking your data is one thing... Being able to USE it is another. JSON is a file which needs an INTERPRETER to make sense of the content. If you want to use JSON you'd need to offer an offline processor which can handle the JSON files otherwise that is useless. Other than having a "Backup" for your website.

The TIFF format is more than a "Backup" it's a way to be able to EDIT the files you create with all the layers on your website. This is without the NEED for you to re-write a piece of software to say HANDLE your JSON data. With TIFF files, it is possible to EDIT the files in ANOTHER Paint Program and not force you to learn some kind of new software or to have to code a "processor" as mentioned above.

I'm just saying that with an EDITABLE file format that is compatible with MANY other programs out-there ... All you need to do is create the TIFF File via a library and then test the output of the generated file in Photoshop (for example).

Perfecting that INSURES that even though you can have EXPORTS to PNPs, PDFs, PNGs., etc. etc. You also have a "Archive" format which will allow you to EDIT your templates or cards (or other card-like content like tiles, etc. etc.) off the "Cloud" and on your PC.

Anyhow these are ONLY suggestions on how(?) you can PERFECT your platform. All the while NOT lose any of it's VALUE (on the contrary you would ADD to the VALUE of your platform) because you would provide people with a way to EDIT their files let's say OFFLINE.

Cordially.

gibwalker
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Technical details

Hey, sorry to hear about Mike, that sounds really awful. My sincere condolences.

Also regarding offline/TIFF etc. thanks for the detailed explanation — I can see what you're going for.

I'd say 2 things:

1. First, it's trivially easy to get data out of a JSON these days (there are any number of free online ways to do it) so you don't need a dedicated app at all, and we *also* export to csv data in one click, so you can take your card data to Google sheets or another platform super easily if you want to switch.

2. Secondly, in terms of offline editing of templates, while it's a genuinely useful idea worth thinking about, TIFFs are definitely not the solution. The challenge is that TIFF layers don't quite work the way you're describing across programs. Layered TIFFs are largely a Photoshop-specific feature — the layer data is stored in a private Photoshop block inside the file, so other paint programs may see just a flat image, or partially read the layers with inconsistent results. It's not a universal "open and edit in anything" format the way it might seem.

Dextrous layouts are HTML/CSS under the hood, so any export to TIFF would have to rasterize the layout into pixels first — at that point there's no longer any concept of "this is a text box" or "this is the background layer." To get meaningful editable layers, we'd have to render each element separately and reassemble them, which is a significant engineering effort — and even then you'd be editing pixels, not text or layout properties. TIFF with real, universally-readable layers simply isn't something you can just generate from HTML/CSS — it's not a solved problem with a library call.

We do already export to PNG and PDF at high quality, which covers viewing, proofing, and print use cases. If the goal is archiving or taking work offline, those formats are more universally supported and reliable than layered TIFF. For example, the PDFs we're already exporting is more editable in a professional design tool (say via Illustrator) than any TIFF we could generate would be. A TIFF from a rasterized HTML layout would just be flat pixels — whereas a PDF opened in Illustrator can give you actual vectors and text you can manipulate.

On the other hand, if offline editing is the real need, that's something we'd love to explore — but it's more likely to look like an offline mode within Dextrous itself than a file format export. That way you'd keep full editability rather than losing it the moment the layout gets flattened as TIFFs for instance.

Cheers

questccg
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That's some good "feedback"...

Yeah we were all sad when we learnt that Mike had passed. He was like 50% of the driving force and 100% the marketing/brand promoter. We completed the KS but it wasn't the same. Interest had waned after his passing as he knew a lot about how to market a KS (as a Publisher). I'm only a Designer. I get GOOD ideas but they still need to be marketed. That's why I working on my "Mystery Card Game" but I'm very knowing that for it to HAPPEN will need to take a different route.

No worries if the TIFF format is not the solution. I know it's a RASTERIZED format unlike Photoshop Files (.PSD), the other option could MAYBE(?) SVGs or PDFs that are Adobe Illustrator Editable (Adobe PDF format).

What I am suggesting is an OFFLINE "Editing" but not to LOSE VALUE in DEXTROUS. What do I mean? You cited it towards the end of your previous comment.

The idea would be to UPSELL the USE of "DEXTROUS" to EDIT and create the components via the website and how it links with spreadsheet data MAKING that be the VALUE of the platform... And then produce a FORMAT that is EDITABLE by normal software. Something that doesn't require you to RE-INVENT everything.

Why would anyone WANT this???

Like I said WITHOUT YOUR platform it would not be possible to make all the LINKS. But having a FORMAT you can download and EDIT each and every "component" (maybe cards or tiles, etc. etc.) but NOT have the AUTOMATION of linking the CSVs or spreadsheets is the POWER and VALUE of your platform.

I wouldn't want ANYTHING to REPLACE THIS. Aa it is your Bread & Butter so-to-speak. But having some kind of FORMAT which can be edited by software without the automation and dynamic nature... Would just solidify your solution.

questccg wrote:
I can edit my LAYOUTS, I can upload my LAYERS and I can LINK my spreadsheet ... That's all done via YOUR PLATFORM.

But IF I want FINAL edits and have a "Archivable" format LOCALLY. Well something like that just adds to WHY(?) someone would use your solution!

Yeah it's true, I forgot that TIFF probably rasterizes TEXT LAYERS and you don't want to decode a private format like Photoshop Files (.PSDs).

Their formats are proprietary and you'd need an OPEN format.

Best!

questccg
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I wouldn't allow people to TRANSFER their content over ...

To another "platform" which competes with your own. Even if it may be more generic or more difficult to use. That's like (to me) is crossing a line. I feel this way because your platform does AUTOMATE the task of having spreadsheet data in one place (SOURCE) and use a template (SOURCE too) to format have all of your cards get created (TARGET).

All that AUTOMATION is the PURE VALUE of DEXTROUS.

To me... The only problem is IF I don't want to have all my cards "on the cloud" and would want LOCAL copies that still allow me to EDIT them INDIVIDUALLY not Globally like your spreadsheet/template setup. Edit one-at-time.

That would allow me to preserve my sanity.

Because IF I can't have my files locally and allow EDITING is some way (given the correct open format... for example), that would dissuade me from using your platform.

It's enough that for my own projects I have like three (3) layers of backup to preserve my own files.

And this is an open discussion. I'm just trying to work through my own apprehension. I've never used a tool such as this... Unless you count MSE (Magic Set Editor) which has templates for the VS System, Magic: the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh! too...

That tool (MSE) does a bit like what your website does.

I have never dug into it (in details) but it's a LOCAL solution specialized for Magic cards although it does allow you to create your OWN templates and generate a "spreadsheet" within MSE which allows you to create your own cards.

But that's besides the point.

I'm not interested in tools to REPLACE "Dextrous"... I'm looking for ways to have the best of both worlds: an automated solution you can edit ONLINE and a "Archival" format OFFLINE which allows you to edit things ONE AT A TIME.

Something along those lines!

gibwalker
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Ah yep PDF is the answer

Ah yes I hear you.

So actually one of the more unique things about Dextrous is that our exported pdfs *are* editable which is cool and kind of unique. Most (all?) other platforms that I know of basically just convert cards to a raster format like png and then just embed those into a printable pdf. We don't do that, and instead our export includes each individual layer of the design so you can edit your cards one at a time in the output PDF as you're describing.

Things like shadows will be rasterised, but again, everything isn't being flattened which can be an advantage like you're describing.

questccg
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Ok ... I tried a bit to see what can be done...

And while it's a bit intuitive on how to create "Zones" that can link-up with a spreadsheet (or the online "Dextrous" platform), I exported two (2) cards that I made some tests on and here are my results (so-to-speak).

***

So I figured out how to copy images from the Library to my account, I did this for two (2) Sample Images (just with some cool factor and gave them a try). I create a Template next by adding a Background and a couple Textboxes too. Once this step was completed, I proceeded to create a Project from which I could see my Templates and their Backside.

So I had to enable different Fronts/Backs option and then proceeded to see what I needed to do to create me a couple of cards. I played around a bit and got to edit the Template Data (rows) and created two (2) cards with a different background. So far so good.

***

Now came the tricky part in that I needed to enable a setting in my Account before the option to export to PDFs was visible (a blue button). I exported to a PDF and copied it from my Laptop to my PC on which I do all my Photoshop Editing. I opened it in Illustrator and you were correct all the layers were there... Perhaps maybe TOO MANY LAYERS because of LOT of them were BLANK...

But here's the issue. While the various layers were accessible... Text was NOT a "Text Layer" and I could NOT edit in Illustrator.

***

This leads me to two (2) possibilities:

#1> The export feature is still in development and needs more refinement.

#2> It works as designed and therefore TEXT AREAS are NOT editable in Illustrator.

I don't want to make erroneous assumptions ... So I'll wait for you to reply. I'm not a PRO at your platform... I just did some simple editing to see how the platform works.

***

There are a couple of concerns for me. The first being that the cards in the EXPORT PDF file don't have BLEED... Somehow you need to account for this when making files for printing. The second issue is that for some printers JPEG or PNG files are required and you must UPLOAD EACH FILE separately. Like on "The Game Crafter". This didn't seem like it could be possible... Maybe I just did not look in the correct place YET!

If you answer some of my concerns and feedback that would be great.

Let's keep the discussion open and continue to discuss the wonders of this interesting platform.

Cheers!

questccg
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I know it's possible... Export for PODs...

I just read a section of the Documentation which describes how to create the files for PODs like "The Game Crafer" (TGC). Same for BLEEDS that need to be applied to the card templates.

I will play around with this on Sunday as I have a Birthday Party tomorrow. And today it's just plain TOO LATE and time for bed.

I did want to pre-empt you a bit... I know you told me to check the documentation and that I did when working on the EXPORT section of it. The rest is pretty intuitive.

I found ONE (1) BUG:

questccg wrote:
If you create a Text Area when creating the Template... The Default Text appears with HTML markup (< p >< p > my text ... ). But when I got the Cards in the project and I EDIT that information... The MARKUP disappears.

So I'm not sure what's going on with that and how it work just as well WITHOUT the MARKUP (Enter and some text...) ... But the DEFAULT text seems to have MARKUP...

Go figure!?

questccg
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I EXPORTED to PNGs and it worked well!

I tried the steps to add a BLEED and then EXPORT to PNGs and it worked GREAT! It sent me a ZIP with ALL of the cards that I had made (both fronts & backs)! It's not too complicated to work with. Just figuring out WHERE to "look" for a setting like the BLEED and the automatic calculation of the card size ... It's pretty slick. I really like the INTUITIVE website ... Like I said, you need to refer to the documentation a bit... But other than that... Was pretty easy to get a card configured (Layout) and then exported (Project).

So it all works... And it's cool. I would recommend OTHERS check it out and try to see if it suits the needs of their own projects!

Cheers.

questccg
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I followed your "Example Workflow" step-by-step...

And it worked perfectly. So KUDOS to you for explaining HOW(?) to use the "Dextrous" platform in so few amount of steps. I'd recommend others give it a try... The INTERFACE is "intuitive" and provides an EASY way to add layouts (Card Templates), Projects (Games) and Images (Art & Icons).

Again I'd recommend people TRY it out for FREE and see if it is of use to any of you and your games that you are working on.

Sincerely.

questccg
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Another functional issue for you...

It says that the first Card is "1.png"... That's a bit of a problem... Because when you hit "10.png" it will appear BEFORE "2.png". You would need a formatting variable which indicates how many cards are in the set (like "0000" = from 0001 to 9999) and would have files "0001.png" and "0002.png" followed later by "0010.png"...

You should be able to specify which format you want: none or from "0" to "0000".

I doubt you will need more than "9999" cards. Even Wizards of the Coast (WotC) releases limited editions with something around 250 to 300 per set.

So maybe "001" to "999" should be the limit. So under a 1,000 cards per project.

I'm a purist and think that MAYBE(?) some crazy fool out there would WANT over 1,000 cards in their project.

But IF I was the Dextrous Team, I would format row numbers from 001 to 999 and have some way of using a "Variable" to AFFECT the name.

Like "001_Rifleman.png" when 000 is the number format and "_Rifleman" is a NAME field for the card. So I can AUTOMATICALLY format the export names with the leading card number and a description that I can understand.

These are just suggestions. Feel free to comment and reply to my shared thoughts... It's always good to have a conversation that HELPS people make better games and better design tools too!

Cheers!

Note #1: Just a work-around. Maybe make it "0001" to "9999" and be done with it... Just under 10,000 cards per Template. Sounds better to me... Each TEMPLATE can have at most 9,999 Cards (hard limit and the starting card is "0001".

If you could have a "Filename" Variable like "_Rifleman" and that would generate the Front file of "0001_Rifleman.png" and the Back file of "0001b_Rifleman.png" were I would specify "b_Rifleman" as my "Filename" variable for the BACKSIDE Template...

gibwalker
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Good to see you got it working!

Ah sorry Quest I can't keep up with all these messages ha.

Good to see you found how to do bleed etc.

I'll look into that issue with the p tags being visible. It's just cosmetic (it won't affect anything), but I agree it's still annoying.

As for the image names, so I think from memory if you export a bigger batch it will make the numbers bigger as you suggested.

You also guessed the variable to affect the name - so this is the nickname column. If you have names in this column your cards should be exported like you suggested. So you guessed correctly!

questccg
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No worries...

I'm just testing the "Dextrous" Platform. I took me less time to do what I wanted to do in "Dextrous" than in Photoshop. Hehehe. Your platform is quicker and EASIER too!

Don't worry about the comments... Just replying with my thoughts and ideas.

In any event, I will continue to check the platform out with more tries to see what is possible.

I must admit it's neat. Kudos on the good job of bringing it to "life"!

Cheers!

gibwalker
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Thanks for the kind words

Thanks for the kind words questccg!

Also managed to fix that p tag issue. Much better!

Glad to hear you're finding it quicker and easier. That means we're doing something right ha. :P

Gil

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