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Do TCGs Have 4 Core Card Effects?

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Noah McQ
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I have a dream, and that dream is to make a card game that is played with playing cards but emulates the feeling of playing a trading card game. I first began trying like 6 years ago, and since then it's been a backburner obsession. I've made a game I call "On the Line" which isn't good but aims to do it, and I've also recently made a game I call "questccg's RPS TCG" which was inspired by questccg's early writings on the rock-paper-scissors card game he's been working on. Despite these two, I'm still obsessed with the idea of a TCG played with playing cards.

Then comes today. I've had another idea that would suit this fixation, but the idea is quite incomplete. What I need: a card effect for each of the four suits, and I thought it would be efficient to just steal ideas from other card games. Many of you are substantially more knowledgeable on them than I am, so what are 4 card effects that could correspond to the four suits?

There's things like extra card draw, instant removal, uh, deck search? Direct damage to the player? I'd be happy to hear ideas from anyone.

The fundamental idea is that every card can be played four ways, so each suit having an effect would help provide this flexibility

questccg
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Hmm... You can "borrow" this IDEA (if you like it)

In my "Mystery Card Game", I am NOT Naming Units/Cards. Instead I have an "Ability Name" which triggers the same effect on multiple cards. BUT... You may ONLY have two (2) of the SAME "Ability Names" in your DECK.

So here's what you MAY want to "borrow" and it goes along the lines of what I just posted in THIS comment:

questccg wrote:
Instead of each SUIT having some kind of GENERIC ability... Why not make it that Card VALUES have an ability...

Like ALL "2"s have Ability "X". All "10"s have Ability "Y", etc. etc.

I know 10 Abilities may seem high... But your 3 Face Cards could be your Heroes and then are played on the "Area of Play". You start the game with ALL THREE (3) of your Heroes and maybe the GOAL is to "defeat" all of them.

IDK... I'm just thinking off the cuff...

The "Ace" can be the "Assassin" and could be the card you play to kill off a Hero instantly.

Maybe it could be an ADVANCED game of "WAR", In which you need to CHOOSE which Hero's Pile you play a card. They come from your HAND and they are FACE DOWN until revealed... So there is a HIGH LUCK Factor.

But if the "Assassin" is revealed... That Hero DIES. How NOT TO MAKE a game that LAST FOREVER (like WAR). The ONLY way to COUNTER the "Assassin" is to Draw the "10" (Royal Guard) before.

Again just a bunch of RANDOM ideas.

***

The gist of it is instead of going with SUIT abilities, you go with NUMBER abilities. And your Face Cards are Heroes...

Something like that???

Cheers.

Note #1: The "7" could be the "Replace & Reshuffle" and it could mean that you take all the cards already played and place them into one (1) Pile and "Reshuffle".

Remember it's to eliminate the possibility of exhausting your deck of 10 Cards each time the deck is played. Also this means sometimes you WON'T get your "Assassin" for that Deck (Round).

Anyhow just some IDEAS.

X3M
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4 suits?

Sorry for sounding inexperienced in this. But I see the word suits comming back a lot.

What do you mean with suits? And why are there 4 of them?

questccg
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Standard Deck of Cards is what he is inspired by...

X3M wrote:
...What do you mean with suits? And why are there 4 of them?

Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs and Spades are the FOUR (4) Standard Suits in a normal Deck of 52 Cards.

No black magic here...

Note #1: And also my Mystery Card Game has a five (5) Suit RPS and each "Mission" has five (5) additional categories. So there are 5 x 5 = 25 variations on my "Missions".

That's just an FYI ... Because I AM using the FIVE (5) Suit RPS for an intrinsic RPS. "Intrinsic" because the RPS-5 is implied in the Design of the Cards and not during the playing of the game.

X3M
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Ah, I see. And MtG doesn't

Ah, I see.

And MtG doesn't have 5 suits since it is chaotic and based on mana. Not just a set of cards.

What about Tradeworlds? So I got better understanding about how far you can take this?

questccg
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Just to be CLEAR...

X3M wrote:
...And MtG doesn't have 5 suits since it is chaotic and based on mana. Not just a set of cards...

Yes you are correct. The COLORPIE is a combination of 5 Colors in Magic: the Gathering (Magic): Red, Green, Blue, White, and Black. But a regular Deck has 2 Colors and 4 Suits.

X3M wrote:
...What about Tradeworlds? So I got better understanding about how far you can take this?

Yes in TradeWorlds there are 4 suits which correspond to each Faction: Acolytes, Brethren, Covenant, and Destined. Cards are bound to each Faction given that each Faction has an asymmetric Economic Ability and Battle Ability.

"Colors" are often used with "Suits" and suits are OFTEN "Symbols" or like in the case of the cards in TradeWorlds... Factions = Suits. Each Faction has it's own LOGO explaining why they are Suits not just Factions...

The Suits are: the Eye, the Fist, the Atom, and the Wings. For TradeWorlds.

Something along those lines... Cheers!

Note #1: Furthermore each Faction has it's own set of Backstories which when put IN ORDER of the "Resources" on the Backside (see there is a reason for the resources too!) you can read stories about the various Factions and you'll notice a very unique FEEL to each Faction's Stories...

So to SORT the stories is pretty simple. You order the Cards by the "Resource" or Backside and you keep them in numerical order. So Medicine 5 comes before Medicine 12... And all Medicine Cards have one unique Story.

Each Faction has it's own Resource Count, like Medicine = 5, Contraband = 8, Alloys = 12, etc. etc. And there are different Counts per Faction too making the Stories of each Faction UNIQUE.

You should really check that out. Because the stories are really interesting. And they sort of give the Player a FEEL about what it means to be a specific Faction and who your Leader is and what is their Attitude towards life, how the members of that Faction live and endure, etc. etc.

Noah McQ
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10 Abilities Feels a Lot

questccg wrote:
questccg wrote:
Instead of each SUIT having some kind of GENERIC ability... Why not make it that Card VALUES have an ability...

I've had this idea for other games, but I don't think I was ever able to come up with a list of 13 abilities. Or even 10. What I wanted for this game was for the suit and placement of the card to determine what it did and the rank to determine the severity at which the card did that thing. If I were to adopt the idea of each card's rank determining its ability, then I think I would make the suit determine something like the target of the effect. Still, it's a lot of ideas to muster. I prefer my initial idea.

questccg wrote:
Anyhow just some IDEAS.

Thank you

questccg
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Remember to use the Design Space Methodology

Noah McQ wrote:
...but I don't think I was ever able to come up with a list of 13 abilities. Or even 10...

For this I would simply say: "Use the Design Space Methodology." It is used by Magic: the Gathering (Magic) lead designer "Mark Rosewater" and WotC staff when coming up with new cards for Magic.

Quote:
The "Design Space" Methodology is a way of auditing your game's elements and then forming a long list of "pieces" or "aspects" for your game. This then usually leads to a more methodical approach to seeing EVERYTHING in your Game's Universe.

Use this WHY? Because it allows you to do JUST what you WANT to do: figure out what kind of abilities, bonuses, penalties, etc. etc. YOUR game can have.

It's a great WAY to Audit a game and see from a different perspective WHAT(?) your game looks like and what are the possibilities to GROW the design.

Anyhow. I don't know if you forgot this Methodology but it works for ONLY YOU.

Why?? Because I don't know ALL "pieces" or "aspects" of your game. Only you can figure them out and you are the BEST person to Audit your OWN game. I know it may sound DUMB... And TEDIOUS... But trust me: "If WotC use it... There is a reason for that!" And IMHO it's because it allows you to see everything differently when it's all in-front of you in a list and you can even do one pass and only see a dozen or so "pieces" and maybe a second look a week later may yield 15 "pieces", etc. etc.

It' a VERY POWERFUL method to make CARDS and ABILITIES.

So don't discount it. Give it a TRY and you'll probably land up making some rules too... Which are also part of this Design Methodologies "modus operandi" (M.O.)

Give it a try. You'll come up with a TON of ABILITIES and you can then figure out which ones work best for you!

Sincerely.

Note #1: If you want to know the SOURCE of that Methodology all I can say is that I've listened to Mark's Podcast he used to record when traveling to work in the mornings and at the end of the day.

As per my understanding he lived a fair distance from WotC headquarters and each day he could make two (2) 30-Minute Podcasts.

30-Minutes may seem like a LOT... But I always felt like the content was interesting to listen to. And that's where I was initiated to the "Design Space" Methodology that allows WotC to define new cards and abilities, create and then break power rules and even design for a specific type of player.

It was interesting content to listen to. Especially as he is the Lead Designer over at WotC!

larienna
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From what I understand, you

From what I understand, you want the special power to be consistent for all the cards in the same suit?

I played a game recently called "Black Jacket", I am not sure if the special powers are related to the suit, or the number, or maybe both. I think each suit plays differently, because you choose one at game start.

Else there is "Ballatro" there are lot of special effects, but not associated to a suit.

Else AI is your friend, as for ideas of effects that could be applicable to an entire suit. He will find you tons of them, just pick 4 from the list.

As a suggestion, I would probably make number cards behave differently than face cards. Because faces and aces have no numbers. So I would put 4 abilities, 1 per suit with a number as parameter, then I would make each face have an ability of its own, so all jacks have the same ability.

This way you have horizontals and vertical abilities.

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