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Moving on to Defense. Also, "What's so great about charging?"

So, simple enough, right?

Defense is a combination of 3 stats:
Armor - The physical protection you are wearing.
Fortitude - The physical toughness of your body and the ability to take a hit.
Skill - Self-defense, dodging and general avoidance of attacks.

Just like attacking, the defense rolls are adding up and subtracted from an attack roll.
Like my attack post, this is just a scale to go off of when I'm creating characters.

1: Basic Clothing
2: Light, Metal armor; Buckler
3: Heavy, Metal armor; Shield
4: Light warmachine, vehicle, gadgeteered personal armor

1: Weak; Elderly
2: Basic Human endurance
3: Tough Skin; Strong-willed
4: Armored Hide

1: Unskilled; Slow
2: Normal reflexes
3: Heightened reflexes
4: Animal or Animal-like reflexes

"What's so great about charging?"
I just had a thought.
Cover adds 1d4 to defense against a ranged attack.
Charging adds 1d4 to a melee attack.
On second though. I don't want to REWARD a player for charging. How is CHARGING beneficial to your attack? In warmachine, you get an additional 3" of movement and an additional damage die. A simple bonus just for, "I run and therefore the momentum of my body equates to more damage from my sword."? I would think that the defender would be able to see the charge coming, no? You're running up the battlefield! Nope, we'll sit here and take it like the chumps we are. In warhammer, "I charge, therefore I get upped power and ANOTHER attack."? bullshiit. If I were to make a wargame... not a skirmish game, I promised myself that I would gimp melee. In ALL miniatures games which I've played, melee is ALWAYS superior to ranged attacks.

I was actually thinking, "I charge, roll off. Defender successfully defends. I take the difference between the rolls." I feel this is much more fair. The only advantage to attacking is you get to use your attack dice. If you perform poorly on the battlefield, especially during a charge, you get punished for it. Likewise, would you charge a guy with a tower shield? No. He could easily use his shield as a weapon and bash you to the ground (in my ideal world anyway). Would cavalry charge a group of pikemen? No. Of course not. Why? The pikemen's set defense would destroy the cavalry forces. Yet, in modern and fantasy wargames, all you do is get negatives to your attack roll (or possibly damage roll). No wounds to the Cav, no casualties. Just harder to hit the pikemen. More Bullshiit. I saw Braveheart. I know how it is.


I'm not really a wargamer but

I'm not really a wargamer but your assessment makes sense. It seems to me that charging (increasing momentum) shouldn't give the attacker an advantage but just increase the damage done to the losing character (attacker or defender). If I charge full speed into a pike I'm going to get more hurt.

P.S. Evil ColSanders is the best screen name! I laughed for 5 minutes when I first saw it.


I like that idea. No additional dice for charging, just an increase in damage to the losing character.

I'm glad you enjoyed my SN that much!

Melee and charging

I have played a lot of sword play with real swords, fencing, and fake soft swords, and charging is HUGE in the real world.

Your math leaves out the mental shock component and leverage ...and a few other laws of physics

Mental shock 101,
We all know we are mortal, but we supress that because it is uncomfortable to dwell on,
but when someone charges at you, that sense of how fragile your flesh is jumps out in front and demands attention, just at the moment in your life that you really need to be focusing on your sword fighting skills.

translation, -3 to defense

If you are well trained, you quickly supress that and muscle memory kicks in and yust in time your blocking manuever just in time,
unless your are larger and had good footing and posture at the time of the charge, you will be knocked back and now are wide open for a second attack.

translation, free 2nd attack for a charge

Physics 101
F=MA, force equals mass x acceleration
point #1 acceration
my arm swings sword at rate of 1.0 (base speed)
charging increases speed to 1.5
jumping up and coming down at the exact right time
speed increase 2.0

translation, damage modifer + 4 (and additional +4 if critical hit)

point #2 MASS
My 200# body weilding a 5# sword = BIG mass = more force
a half pound arrow, nadasomuch
sure, it is points and focus' it all on a small point
but my sword is not dull either and flesh is fragile.
piercing damge is highly dependant on who it hits
slashing/cleaving damge is just plain nasty no matter where it hits and echo's back to mental shock 101
Also the arrow is traveling fast, 300-400 feet per second
but so is my sword at close to 200-250 fps
if I charge I might add 30 fps, but that does not make a big difference

also in group fight, defend #1 was providing flanking cover for his buddy, being knocked back or steping back to brace myself to decrease the impact of the charge, now leaves my buddy with an open flank

translation , attack of opprotunity after a charge

Mental shock is a valid point

Mental shock is a valid point but it can work both ways. It takes a certain amount of bravery (or stupidity) to charge an enemy knowing your own mortality as well as his. It can be shocking also to know your enemy is prepared for your eminent attack.

Physics 101. My point was that the increased force of the attacker would translate into more damage to him if the defender wins.

A lot of this depends on whether the defender is prepared for the charge and/or skilled enough to counter it. Any good martial artist or wrestler knows how to use an opponents momentum against them, for example. It also depends on how detailed you want the combat system to be.

Thoughts on defence.

I'm not too enamored of the idea of rolling dice for defense, since it makes it too random. Or more to the point, Armor and fortitude should be a fixed value, whereas Reflex should be a roll. It's the only thing you don't have as much control over.

I do however like the idea that if the attacker fails his attack he is going to take the difference in damage. I do also agree with drktron too, that the increased force of the attacker should take more damage. I would suggest maybe 1 extra point of damage per increment charged (1:1" or 1:2"??) - this could go both ways this could be applied to the attacker's damage, and to the defenders damage, if they manage to set themselves before the attack - Use of a Glory Point perhaps?


Oh, I did forget

If you charge and miss

then you are most likely dead

your oppenent gets a clear shot at your exposed flank
had a + what ever to trip you
and disarm you
and any adjacent enemy that is not otherwise engaged, gets free shot at your exposed flank too

Charge has a Big advantage with a big downside risk
so better make sure it is the opening move that is also the finishing move vs an oppenent that has a weak counter attack incase you miss, or save it for the big finish of a worn down oppenent who is a sure hit due to his weakened defense.

Defense vs charge

You are correct sir

The Greek phalanx was the best example of this
Hunderds of pointy sticks 18 feet long kept the enemy at spear length away and incapable of charging at you
it also kept the cavalry away too, no animal, no matter how well trained will impale itself on pointy sticks

The Phalanx was the 1st "tank"

your last point is the basic concept of Judo, use you oppenents spedd and mass against him

but then again, I would place my bet on the well trained battle axe weilder vs the well train unarmed judo master, because the judo master is not going to have a 1 shot kill strike if the charging axe weilder missed, although he probably will trip and or disarm him.

hmmmm, we need more human gladiator games to test this theory, where are the Romans when you need them.

Melee charge solution

Oh, just another thought

If defender is using a polearm (spear, Halberd, Pike, , etc)

-5 to charge at all times
-10 to charge when in a defensive position, stance
-15 when flanked by another polearm defender

I knew there would be

I knew there would be nay-sayers to rolling defense.
My reasoning is that, the armor on your body is not perfect. A implement could slide into a crevase. You find a chink. So your armor deflects an attack... it won't be in perfect condition after that. Your body is not perfect. You could be tired, sick, even an allergy could spell disaster for you. The part of the body they hit is also taken into account. That's the whole reason I made these roll-able and rolled together. "Take all these into account and this is your outcome of the encounter".

As for mental shock, I was pertaining it to skirmish. One on one usually. not TOO much to fear.

Rolling for defense is great

I was not nay saying the rolling for defense, I think it is great and I have that as a mechanism in my games too

I prefer it for statistical reason
With 1 six sided dice you have 1 in six odds for an outcome
If you roll 2 six sided dice you have an approximation of a bell curve
With extreme out come on the ends which accurately represent the attacker sucking and the defense being awesome, or the otherway around. If the both doe well, the most common outcome is a "clang" or on a mass scale, a stand off.

I was commenting on the other thing you threw in there about charging
On lags scale battles charging does not do much for your attack because only the 1st rank gets the bonus ( or fail) and the average outcome is balanced to be of not consequence
Getting thar fustest with the mostest" is a good battle tactic
Again another greek analogy
The phalanx was a tank slowly plowing into the enemy
But it's main tactical advantage to the greeks was that is caused the enemy formation to develop cracks and opening
Then Alexander and his 1000 horse cavalry would charge and fill that gap and drive straight for the enemy king
Then the shock kicks in as the king was not expecting such a sudden turn of events and he turns and runs
Then all the peasant warrior see the king running and they sceedadle and hightail it outta thar

Ya gotta have a charge option
Both for 1 vs 1 and large scale battles

I was referring to casamyr

I was referring to casamyr about the distain for rolling defense.

The curve for damage is really skewed with so many combinations of 3 polyhedral dice.

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