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Wizardry TCG

There are a few ideas/concepts that I would like to explore in Table Top Gaming. These include:

1. Polyhedral dice = Yes a lot of RPGs use these dice - but I don't know of many Table Top/Board Games that make use of standard poly dice.

2. Filler-Type game = Yes I have worked with Hamish on the "Mech" game, but we're not sure about publication let alone have a completed prototype.

3. Fantasy Duel = Obviously this is something I have tried countless times with no success. I have had many attempts using different styles of game, but all resulting in utter failures in the Fantasy Duel arena.

So I'm trying to COMBINE ALL three (3) of the concepts in ONE (1) game.

The title of the game is "Wizardry TCG" as in "Wizardry: The Card Game". And I have borrowed concepts from "Elemental: Schools of Magic". To be real honest, I'm not sure where the game will lead me.

Having tried before to make a Filler-Type Fantasy Duel Game BEFORE, I doubt that I will succeed... In addition I would like to ADD standard Polyhedral dice to the mix, where you can bring your own and add them to the game.

What do I have as of today?

Well there are five (5) Wizards each player controls. These Wizards give life to souls trapped in crystal and use summoning rituals to bring these souls to their plane of existence. They then use these minions to combat their enemies with the goal of defeating the opposing Wizard's clan.

So far that's what I got...

Comments

About the five (5) Wizards

There are five (5) Wizards at your disposal. Each Wizard a different dice from the other:

  • Illusionist (Blue cards) = d4
  • Enchanter (Green cards) = d6
  • Conjurer (Yellow cards) = d8
  • Warlock (Orange cards) = d10
  • Sorcerer (Red cards) = d12

As you can see, each Wizard has a DIFFERENT Poly dice.

Rather than choosing and rolling one single dice, where everything is left to random luck, you roll ALL five (5) dice at the SAME TIME and choose THREE (3) Wizards out of the group.

So although there is a randomness factor (in rolling the dice), you also have probabilities and more strategy in selecting the Wizards you wish to control on your turn.

That's what I got for now.

Please feel free to comment/post any type of feedback.

Decks of Magic

Although I am interested in "off-line" deck-building (similar to Magic), I believe that a Wizard's deck should be comprised of sixty (60) cards. A very balanced deck would mean twelve (12) of each Wizard's cards.

Of course players may choose to build their deck differently...

Question

Is this any how related to the wizardry video game or the titles just a coincidence?

Yes Wizardry is an RPG

Nothing related to the Video Game.

But I FELT that the title "Wizardry TCG" that was actually about WIZARDS made much more sense.

"Wizardry" the Video Game, has a "Sword" going through the name as it's logo and seems to suggest melee combat. It is a well-known RPG which is akin to games like "Ultima: The Underworld" or "Dungeon & Dragons: Eye of the Beholder", etc.

But in this card game, it's more about the fact that you control Wizards to do your bidding. There are five (5) colors: Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange and Red. And each color correspond to one Wizard.

That's why I used the name "Wizardry TCG"...

Originally I was going to color code each die to match the card colors. But then I realized this was very "prohibitive" of using Chessex or Halfsie polyhedral dice set. So I decided that you could use ANY standard Polyhedral dice set...

Types of cards

As mentioned, there will be five (5) colors of cards, each one for a specific Wizard. I think this will draw me AWAY from popular card games like "Magic: The Gathering" since I have divided my cards into categories based on Wizards.

One has to be careful not to get too "absorbed" in what Magic does and put your own spin on a DISTINCT duel game.

To do so, you need to vary the mechanics of the game.

Take for example, using Polyhedral dice to represent Wizards and MANA. No need for "Land cards", your Wizards and their dice give you POWER to control your fate.

People tend to complain about "too many land cards" in Magic. So I want to eliminate this restriction. Adding five (5) dice instead of all kinds of Land cards, seems "innovative"! :)

Note: That dice rolling may lead to occasions where the dice restrict the game strategy you may want to employ. But I see this as GOOD. Since just because you have a SPECIFIC strategy to DEFEAT your opponent, does NOT imply it should work every time as expected!

This is taking another JAB at Magic deck-building capabilities. Building decks with certain colors of cards, lead to general strategies used by the player. I want to AVOID deck strategies that are too "overwhelming" in their use...

Not a fan

Maybe it's me (having played card games for over 20 years), but I don't give half the attention to "fantasy" card games as I used to. It's probably because so many companies are trying to be the David to Magic The Gathering's Goliath and just finding themselves just...deflated.

I'd be more interested in a CCG card game about chicken farming...at least it's something new.

Am I shooting you down? Not really. I'm just saying there's a market that's already familiar with fantasy card games. Your mechanics sound...interesting, but not so interesting as for me to get hooked. I'd suggest a completely different theme.

Again, this is just one person's (my) view. As with games that are presented here on the site, it needs some work and a prototype to fully see what you're trying to communicate here. Dice tend to be swing-y in terms of numbers, so I'd be careful about that.

Quote:Maybe it's me (having

Quote:
Maybe it's me (having played card games for over 20 years), but I don't give half the attention to "fantasy" card games as I used to.

I somewhat agree with him, even Heart Stone did not bother designing their own mechanics and borrowed magic's game system. It's unfortunate, because I am sure there are many good ideas of card game out there, but Magic the Gathering seems to have over burn the whole area.

Even I have a card game idea based on Duel Masters which was designed by Wizards of the coast (so based on magic) and I doubt that even published as a digital version that it will get any popular even with a few new innovative mechanics.

One thing for sure, stay away from tradable card game, They can at most be LCG. TCG has a much more negative impact on the player's mind than if the game is playable out of the box for all players.

I understand both your concerns

But believe me this is more of a TEST. I've tried designing Fantasy Duel about 8 to 9 times, and all were awful failures. I'm not even thinking about publishing or producing the game...

What I do hope to accomplish is making a Card Game which is very different from Magic but still at the same time a duel. This is based on some comments from younger players who played "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)"... I remember the feedback very vividly: "Is there any battling?", he asked.

Children tend to be pretty honest about their feelings. And his comment struck a chord with me.

Rain of Fire alone had 3 or 4 variants, all failures. Schools of Magic is not going to be developed because I no longer have a contact for the dynamic board. Crystal Heroes reached the prototype phase and I playtested the game during the Christmas Holidays (2015) and found that again the game was BORING... Nothing "EXCITING" about the game.

So I have gone back to the "basics". I know there are a TON of "Fantasy" games with "Wizards". But this is an exercise to see IF I can put together something INTERESTING. I am trying to move on to another hobby which is "writing". But not for books, instead for "World Building". The key word is "TRYING" ...

Let me share some more ideas from last night!

Having the most powerful minion

Another caveat of some collectible or trading card games is the "Strongest" minion syndrome.

This is when an opponent plays such a strong unit that the opponent cannot counter that unit and therefore dies and loses the duel. This is very frustrating in the eyes of the losing player.

"Wizardry TCG" aims to RESOLVE this issue by offering multiple strategies to defeat an opposing minion. For example you could use your Warlock's Mind Control capabilities to command a summoned minion to attack his opponent's minions. If that doesn't work you can use your Enchanter to "curse" a minion reducing it's power and then "banish" him with your Conjurer ...

That's where I see POTENTIAL in this game: multiple strategies to remove the all TOO POWERFUL minion from the table.

This is what "EXCITES" me. Having the possibility of using the Wizards in different ways (as each has his own special capabilities).

And there is some logic in it: "Why can't the Conjurer control the minions he summons?" The answer is pretty logical. Because he must summon more than one minion, he needs to focus his power on keeping the minions in the Wizard's realm of existence. That takes quite a bit of power and therefore makes it difficult to command all the minions he summons.

That's where the Warlock comes into play, and allows him to control some of the summoned units to attack opposing forces.

Still in the "infancy" stage... I'm just trying to put some ideas together and see what can/cannot work.

Old ways

radioactivemouse wrote:
... I'd be more interested in a CCG card game about chicken farming...at least it's something new.

That's perhaps where we differ in opinion or likes.

I'm not looking for something "NEW". Instead I want something with an RPG-feel to it; however a game which doesn't explicitly have RPG elements in it.

That's the nature I am exploring for "Wizardry TCG" (WIZ).

I doubt WIZ will become a David to "Magic". It's just an exercise in trying to come up with something "novel" that is a duel players want to play. And it's a very challenging "exercise". Because I have tried many times before.

Like I said, I'm not certain to have a game which actually meets the criteria of "FUN duel game" - but it's what I want to TRY to achieve.

The idea of re-birth

larienna wrote:
...It's unfortunate, because I am sure there are many good ideas of card game out there, but Magic the Gathering seems to have over burn the whole area.

That's where I have made "basic" changes to the game.

Take for example my "colors". They are in a color spectrum:

"Red - Orange - Yellow - Green - Blue"

That's one thing good - the "colors" used by the Wizards are DIFFERENT from Magic. And I had another game that used "Magic's" color scheme called "Archon: Circlet of the Heavens" (ARCHON). That game was also shelved... So the color scheme is inspired by ARCHON but different. I am trying to draw as much inspiration I can from all the duel games prior to this one that have FAILED.

The addition of five (5) DIFFERENT Wizards in WIZ also gives a unique flavor to the game. Each class having it's own unique abilities. This idea/concept means that I THINK differently than "Magic" does.

"Magic" = one (1) summoner, colors of spells to invoke.

"WIZ" = five (5) wizards, specific colors for each one.

This really forces me OUTSIDE of "Magic" and to think in another direction ... "How/what will each Wizard compendium be?"

Something along those lines.

What are some of the "other" problems with CCGs/TCGs?

I was wondering if either @Radioactivemouse or @Larienna might have other challenges or problems with CCGs/TCGs (?!).

I know "boosters" are a problem. My goal is "ELIMINATE" the booster. Instead have a WEBSITE which allows people to BUY directly each and every card made for the game. Sort of like the "aftermarket" for "Magic" cards.

This is based on "Crystal Heroes" (another duel which was shelved). I wanted players to have a deck of twelve (12) cards. And I was going to sell 4 card expansions via a website.

Maybe have some kind of "smart" price control. Like if a CARD is bought many times, the price goes up - because the demand is HIGH. And maybe have "Card Sets" where you can buy FIVE (5) cards which is more COST EFFECTIVE than buying individual cards. Again all subject to the market and what's HOT and selling...

Of course this is a "DREAM", I will never make it to designing such a website... It would be a MIRACLE if I can get a prototype made! :P

So I ask DESIGNERS: "What are other problems of DUEL games in the market?"

What to do with the "Illusionist"?!?!

questccg wrote:
..."WIZ" = five (5) wizards, specific colors for each one.

Right now my most troubling aspect of the game is to figure out WHAT to DO with the "Illusionist" (d4).

What kind of abilities should he/she have?

The four (4) other Wizards are defined as such:

  1. Enchanter: "bless" or "curse" minions (think +1/+1 or -1/0 cards).
  2. Conjurer: "summon" or "banish" minions (think using creatures).
  3. Warlock: use your minions to "attack" your opponent's minions (think tapping creatures).
  4. Sorceror: "take-that" cards which do direct damage (think instants).

All that remains is the "Illusionist" (or perhaps another Wizard)???

Other Wizards

There are four (4) other Wizards to consider:

  1. Mentalist: a wizard who specializes in manipulating the minds, thoughts and feelings of others.
  2. Alchemist: use divine abilities to imbue items with Magical Powers.
  3. Mystics: which use meditation and other forms of magical ceremonies to unlock Magical Powers.
  4. Druids: draw Magical Powers from nature by using magical symbols such as runes to harness Magic Powers.

Of these four (4) the most interesting ones to me are: the Alchemist, Mentalist and Mystic. I don't see the Druid as being a Wizard but more of a Magic User that specializes in forces of nature.

The Mystic: meditation and focus

So I have come up with a "creative" use of the "Mystic" (which will replace the Illusionist). In addition to be able to "counter" spells and DISPEL (temporarily or permanently) certain of the enchantments on a Minion. More powerful counters include being able to stop "Sorcerer" spells which are direct in nature.

The other thing is that with "focus" you can use a "Mystic" to ENHANCE one of your two (2) other Wizards rolls. So if you rolled a 8 on a Warlock (d10), you could grant +1 to +4 (depending on the roll) Mana to the other dice (Wizards) in your pool.

Just some quick thoughts for now...

Still working ideas - but these seem the most promising so far.

Bring on the Poly dice! :D

Okay so I have figured that instead of having one (1) set of Poly dice, you would actually need two (2) sets. Some spells relying on other dice rolls like "skill checks" (RPG-like) or "Power rolls" (amount of Power).

So this means players can have two (2) sets of Polyhedral dice.

More dice - WOOHOO! Bring on the dice!!! :P

Some quick comments, I read

Some quick comments, I read your post in diagonals

Quote:
This is when an opponent plays such a strong unit that the opponent cannot counter that unit and therefore dies and loses the duel. This is very frustrating in the eyes of the losing player.

Duel masters fix that by making the objective of the game attack your opponent 6 times, rather than do X damage to your opponent. So creature strength determines which creature can kill which creature, but if I spawn a lot of weak creatures, I could probably do more attacks on you than if you have 1 strong creature. Also not all creatures can blocks, and the targeting dynamics is different. There is also the shield trigger abilities that allow casting some sort of fight back spell for free. This is a way for the player to avoid strong creatures or fight back when behind.

I tried a long time ago, wizard duel without summon, one of the important thing is that the losing player must always have a way to catch back or remain competitive even if behind, it's hard to achieve, but it can be done. In Emmerlaus, I think what creates this is the powerful and random effects, that can turn the tide instantly with for example a body exchange spell where players literally change place.

Suggesting "new"

questccg wrote:
radioactivemouse wrote:
... I'd be more interested in a CCG card game about chicken farming...at least it's something new.

That's perhaps where we differ in opinion or likes.

I'm not looking for something "NEW". Instead I want something with an RPG-feel to it; however a game which doesn't explicitly have RPG elements in it.

That's the nature I am exploring for "Wizardry TCG" (WIZ).

I doubt WIZ will become a David to "Magic". It's just an exercise in trying to come up with something "novel" that is a duel players want to play. And it's a very challenging "exercise". Because I have tried many times before.

Like I said, I'm not certain to have a game which actually meets the criteria of "FUN duel game" - but it's what I want to TRY to achieve.

I only suggest "new" because the market is saturated with "fantasy" card games. It's really my business side suggesting you do something new. If this merely an exercise, then that's cool.

Just another futile exercise

radioactivemouse wrote:
I only suggest "new" because the market is saturated with "fantasy" card games. It's really my business side suggesting you do something new. If this merely an exercise, then that's cool.

I have an interesting business model for A GAME. The problem is that I have NO games that suit it. As I've said before I tried several times before without success. Not because I don't believe in myself - but odds are I will fail again.

And to explore the business model further would require me have a WORKING game! :P No game = no nothing. Can't develop the business unless I have a game that meets the criteria ("Filler-Type").

Our "Mech" game is on pause - will probably work on it some more sometime soon. But we'll see...

Update: The "Mech" game doesn't fit the category of "filler-type" game I am looking to develop. As I said "Fantasy Duel". The child's direction was very clear - and I'm looking into it *seriously*. Even if it is only an exercise (for now).

I have a filler game I'd

I have a filler game I'd collaborate on with you/hamish but its only 2 player and is not a collectible expandable game. Its a quick bluffing game (irate ship theme) with <20 cards and 4 d8 dice.

Meeting of Minds

I think it would be best to speak to Hamish about it. 3 Designers on one project could lead to too much confusion. It's hard enough with 2 Designers. Bringing a project TOGETHER is a complex beast, especially if you consider that the project you are on is a "business decision".

Also I don't have a fancy for Pirate games... unless the pirates are BABES! :P

I had a game "concept": Mistresses of the Sea.

HOT, BABE-LICIOUS women in Pirate clothing! Hehehe! Got to be some kind of fetish! :P

No but seriously if you like the "Women Pirate" concept - you can use it. If you like the name also, feel free to use it. If you'd like to know if Hamish would be interested speak with him. But personally not for me.

I'm trying to focus on the "Fantasy Duel" game. Not sure about the filler since my guess is "Magic" is a GAME not a FILLER. So IF I have a DECK of sixty (60) cards, well then I doubt it will be a filler. Sounds more like a regular game - perhaps even Collectible (just as an exercise).

Pieces of d8

Gotcha, yeah mine is a 10 minute game that represents a pirate ship of 7 cards and 2 d8s per player. Captain, First Mate, Second Mate, Gunner, etc. You roll dice and can bluff which section/pirate is hit. Getting caught has a penalty. Each pirate has a different power.

Its a fast, low component but fun bluffing game. Good luck with your wizard dice/card game!

Also want to explore a game with Polys

Another constraint that I want to "work with" is Polyhedral Dice. While I know it is possible to do CUSTOM Polys, for the sake of simplicity, I am aiming for STANDARD Polys.

Why? Well because Polys are mainly used in RPGs.

Using polys in a Board Game - brings up RPGs elements like Skill Checking. Or the whole rolling a JUNK of Polys at the same time and figuring out what you want to do with them (because you can only choose 3 out of 5) gives an interesting FEEL to the game.

any chance to hear a few

any chance to hear a few words about that miraculous business model you mentioned above?

...and: pics of the pirate babes please! :-)

Fhizban wrote:...and: pics of

Fhizban wrote:
...and: pics of the pirate babes please! :-)

Something like this:

That could make for an interesting Pirate game! For certain!...

Back to the OP

Thinking more about "Wizardry TCG" (WIZ) has made me consider that the "Mystic" be able focus energies using meditation. And maybe I wanted to lower the deck size to fifty (50) cards as a minimum and no upper bound.

There is also the idea of separating the cards per Wizard. Sort of like drawing cards from the pile of your choice. There would still be a "random" factor to the cards - however there would be a more proper way to gain cards for specific Wizards.

Take for example the "Mystic". If I give the ability to "share" mana given a roll as the primary function of this Wizard, then he is a booster. But I also said that I wanted to allow the "Mystic" to counter a Sorcerer's spells.

Anyways more thoughts are required to get a better sense about how each Wizard in WIZ will perform his magic.

Keep you all posted!

That image made my day! Keep

That image made my day!

Keep it up Quest, that idea has potential. Just make sure you move away from "Magic: The Gathering" (and the million of wizard based games to the left and right of it) as much as you can.

Some inspiration could be provided by the old Boardgame "Flux", as well as the old computer games "Chaos" and "Archon".

hmm...you had a "Archon" styled game idea already if i remember right. Something with crystals and different kinds of dice as well. Man, that game had potential!

Doing some research about Magic

And mostly everyone knows of the Pentagram, a 5 point star. Well it looks like the points of the star signify Spirit and the four elements: Earth, Air, Fire and Water.

Each of the Wizards in Wizardry (WIZ) controls one point of the Pentagram.

As such the points look like this:

  • Water (Blue) = The Mystic
  • Earth (Green) = The Enchanter
  • Air (Yellow) = The Conjurer
  • Spirit (Orange) = The Warlock
  • Fire (Red) = The Sorcerer

This is all that I have for now... But hoping this might help me generate some more ideas!

JewellGames wrote:I have a

JewellGames wrote:
I have a filler game I'd collaborate on with you/hamish but its only 2 player and is not a collectible expandable game. Its a quick bluffing game (irate ship theme) with <20 cards and 4 d8 dice.

Still waiting to hear back from you on this mate :)

More about the Wizards in WIZ

I have been working on defining various states of mind that are helping me DEFINE what will be a part of this game.

Here is what I have after re-thinking that the Element concept has been "beaten to death"...

  1. Chaos - Emotion = Sorcerer (Red)
  2. Determinism - Wisdom = Warlock (Orange)
  3. Indeterminism - Instinct = Conjurer (Yellow)
  4. Free Will - Creativity = Enchanter (Green)
  5. Order - Knowledge = Mystic (Blue)

This is my OWN "Pentagram", I have seen some LAME efforts with mixed results and am TRYING to make one that is more concrete to actual philosophies around the Wizards of WIZ.

Some explanations

  • The Sorcerer deals with casting DIRECT and INDIRECT spells. He is linked with "Chaos" and "unpredictable behavior". This links is similar to the concept of relying on one's "emotions" to make decisions. As such the nature of this Wizard's Power is something rather VOLATILE.
  • The Warlock uses his power to control beings. He is linked to "determinism", the theory that all facts and events exemplify natural laws. This concept comes from a form of "wisdom" which comes from experience rather than from pure intellect. The nature of this Wizard's Power is a form of control and domination, something requiring much STABLE energy.
  • The Conjurer is the master in summoning minions from different astral planes. His link is to "indeterminism", the opposite of the Warlock. Indeterminism is the belief that human actions are not entirely governed by preexisting conditions but retain a certain freedom and spontaneity. This is manifested by "instinct" which is a part of every being. This Wizard's Power is a convergence and requires high CONCENTRATION and focus.
  • The Enchanter has the capability to bless or curse using various objects as magical talismans. He is linked to "free will", the ability to choose between different possible courses of action. It allows him a certain ability to have "creativity" in his magic. This Wizard's Power is to lock magical energy into various vessels and is very DYNAMIC in nature.
  • The Mystic has the power to counter and focus other magical energies. He is linked to "order", the principle of harmonious arrangement. It gives him access to "knowledge" via meditation and other forms of transformation of the mind. As such this Wizard's Power is to offset the abilities of the other Wizards and is very COMPATIBLE.

Here is the Pentagram of WIZ

Rainbows and roses and whiskers on kittens...

I see that and wonder about the ordering of the colours: it seems a bit weird that, for example, green is between orange and red rather than blue and yellow. Also, as you have decided to use rainbow colours, why not use the "usual" seven colours of the rainbow (ROYGBIV)? Or simplify to six colours and have purple instead of indigo and violet? Either way you could end up with a nice circular progression of colours?

Just wondering.

A Pentagram has only 5 points

Yeah I could have use 6 colors, but then that would imply it not being a Pentagram - a symbol of magical power. Each "inner point" is controlled by one of the five wizards. As it stands the APEX of the Pentagram is the "Sorcerer". Of course if you rotate the Pentagram, it can be any of the other wizards...

You read Sorcerer, Warlock, Conjuror, Enchanter and Mystic. Or ROYGB.

Yeah it's not perfect, Magic's Pie Chart is more consistent. But hey, it's pretty good... For a game that's only in the concept phase - it's decent. And it explains WIZ without people needing to read the previous paragraph. You look at the Pentagram and "Ok I get it..."

Rolling of the Poly dice

I have been thinking a lot about DICE ROLLING. And although this is a DUEL and meant for only two (2) players... There was some issues about when you actually need to roll the dice.

Take the following scenario, it's Player #1 turn. He decides to use his Sorcerer to cast a spell to directly attack his opponent. Now in TRUE magic context, Player #2 should be able to possibly COUNTER the spell. How? Well this involves using the Mystic's abilities to throw up perhaps a "Barrier of Force" which can absorb some of the magic cause by the spell.

Now all this SOUNDS COOL. But there are some issues with how the above scenario actually plays out. First thing is that Player #2 has not rolled his dice... So how can he use his Mystic to counter?!

My idea is simple: BOTH players roll the Poly dice on each player's turn. Player #1 (his turn) chooses his dice first and then decides which cards from his hand he will play or use cards on the table. Then Player #2 chooses his dice SECOND to respond to Player #1 attack.

Personally I think it's a SIMPLE solution and it works. Obviously Player #2 might not get the best roll for the counter he wishes to use - but that is part of rolling dice and the finicky nature of magic.

Microbadge for BGG

Well this is a FIRST!

I have designed the game's Microbadge based on the Pentagram! :)

Yeah I know it may seem a little cheezy to have a Microbadge before even having a working prototype - I'm going to work on the cards for the game on Sunday Night (maybe even start early and do some tonight).

Tell me if you think it's appropriate for WIZ!!! :P

024 out of 060, 014 unique cards

Did some work and sat down to define a bunch of cards. Both the Mystic and the Enchanter are done (024 cards - 012 per Wizard). There are fourteen (014) unique cards between those two (2) Wizards.

The Conjuror's Minions have been defined; I borrowed the Minions from Crystal Heroes. This is very cool because it adds another layer to the game.

And from the looks of things there are 036 cards done out of 060, 021 unique cards. I'm just missing the names for the Conjuror's cards...

One could argue that I'm 50% done! :)

I'll take a break and watch some Star Trek: TNG!

Cool

questccg wrote:
Yeah I could have use 6 colors, but then that would imply it not being a Pentagram - a symbol of magical power. ...etc...

That's fair enough. You make your decisions and live or die by them. You've obviously thought about this and decided how you want the game to be. Best of luck to you.

Magic number 5

The number 5 symbolizes God's grace, Goodness and Favor toward humans and is mentioned many times in The Bible. Whereas the number 6 represents Weakness of man, Manifestation of sin, Evils of Satan.

So in terms of numbers 6 has a negative connotation. I did not want to bring elements of "Good" & "Evil" into the game. You control a group of Wizards and you duel your opponents who also controls his group of Wizards.

I have not done much story-building to establish WHY or WHO you are.

Not sure IF I will need to do more in-depth research into pagan rituals of Magic (real incantations and such)... But I'm hoping to focus on the game and then see IF there is a need for a greater backstory.

Progression

So far I have managed to ALMOST completely DESIGN the deck of sixty (60) cards. There are thirty two (32) unique cards in the deck. And there is a maximum of three (3) of any card.

What I mean by "design" is that I have a spreadsheet entry for almost ALL of the cards. So there is a need for more clarification and others need a better description, etc.

All in all, I would say that I've complete 90% of the effort. I will finish off the remaining 10% tomorrow (as I am on holidays). But the BIG DEAL will be to make cards (actual decks/prototypes) and playtest the game to see IF it is FUN. I am feeling that the game is seeming more interesting than the other "Fantasy Duel" attempts. Probably because I am borrowing pieces from some of my previous failures.

Even if those games were not a success (think BORING), they had their own set of interesting mechanics. So combining something into another body of work - may prove to be valuable.

And there are so many ways to rid yourself of the "all too powerful" minion which I think is cool. Things like curses, transmutation, banishing, slay ability, etc... Many ways to remove a minion from play. I borrowed the "Taunt" ability from "Hearthstone" - because I wanted something similar in my "Fantasy Duel" game. But mostly elements from "Crystal Heroes" and some from "Elemental".

So far my spreadsheet seems "interesting".

Creating the cards and playtesting will be the CHALLENGE. I need to design 32 unique cards and see IF the game is FUN. I really hope it IS and that I have reached a NEW milestone in the "Fantasy Duel" category.

We shall see ... keep you all posted!

HPS74 wrote:JewellGames

HPS74 wrote:
JewellGames wrote:
I have a filler game I'd collaborate on with you/hamish but its only 2 player and is not a collectible expandable game. Its a quick bluffing game (pirate ship theme) with <20 cards and 4 d8 dice.

Still waiting to hear back from you on this mate :)

This is slightly different with 14 cards, 4d8s, counters instead of original 14 d8s.

Not getting TOO attached

Your minions are PART of your Deck (Library) as well as other spells like "Fireball" or "Lightning Bolt" or "Scry" or "Grevious Wound" or "Dispel Magic"... There really is a TON of stuff in this "Fantasy Duel". So far I am impressed with the content.

Having five (5) Wizards in WIZ is great because it allows me to think OUTSIDE the box which is Magic.

But the key thing is not getting too attached to one specific card for your WIN strategy. The health of Summoning Circle is 25 points (5 points per Wizard). I have purposely made in between 20 (Magic) and 30 (Hearthstone). It also works because there are five (5) Wizards! :D

If you get a powerful card - it remains your opponent's challenge to find a COUNTER. Either a strategy with balancing out with an "as strong" method to do damage or to find a direct way with another card to counter this card.

Take for example the "Warlock"'s spell of "Scry": "Search for one (1) card in any pile and place it in your discard pile."

This is like taking FULL CONTROL about how your deck gets built. No more taking the topmost card in piles, you have the power to choose what gets added to your "Deck". Early on this card makes for a POWERFUL strategy and completely alters the game.

Each player has two (2) of these cards in the starter decks. But it will take will take a lot of Mana. Maybe 8 out of 10 (d10 - Warlock). 30% odds. Granted your Mystic can HELP too (Mystic can grant +1 Mana point from his roll to any other Wizard)... But it's not all the time that you will be able to "Scry" a pile for a specific card.

But you get an IDEA about HOW the game is affected by such a card.

I also really like the separate piles for each Wizard, the DOUBLE deck-building mechanic will be interesting to playtest.

Note (About "Scry"): This is an example of the Warlock's Ability to do "Mind Control" and create a new challenge to deal with. I'm not saying all the spells are as "CLEVER" - but I'm trying...

Note 2: I am also a BIG FAN of the Poly Dice Mana mechanic. It's not because I designed it - I just see it as being BETTER than "Land cards" (Magic) or "Linear progression of Mana" (Hearthstone). Doing the MOST you can with the rolls you get is an intricate part of the game. Sure it's sort of LUCK - but it is more about probabilities considering you choose 3 out of 5 dice for your turn.

Chessex Poly Order

Well I placed my order for Chessex Translucent Polyhedral dice today!

It's going to cost $8.00 + Shipping for 10 dice! :o

So about $0.80+ per die.

But I chose polys according to their Wizard's COLOR. Therefore Blue = d4, Green = d6, Yellow = d8, Orange = d10 and Red = d12.

I ordered two (2) sets... one for each player. We'll be able to start playtesting once the dice arrive (and obviously I design in Adobe all the 60 cards! :P)

The impact of Deck-Building x exp(2)

For certain the opportunity of having multiple layers of Deck-Building is rather *interesting*!

Firstly you can buy a Deck of sixty (60) cards for a reasonable price. The you will be able to tweak this deck by buying singles. This is Level I of Deck-Building.

Next each Wizard's cards are placed in five (5) distinct piles. Therefore each Wizard has his own set of cards unique to that specific Wizard. What happens next is that players build their deck as they play the game. This is level II of Deck-Building.

This is really good because it means you can control HOW you build your Deck and which Wizard(s) you wish to focus on for your specific Victory Strategy.

Wizardry TCG: Era of the Titans

Well I have been thinking a little bit about the "backstory" for the game. It seems to me that I would like to create a "parallel" between "Magic: The Gathering" and my game. Not explicitly but more implicitly.

To do so, requires me to define a period prior to the existence of the "Planeswalkers". And so with not too much effort, because I had already had many hours of thought on the subject matter, I came up with the idea that "Titans" controlled the Astral Planes and would use five (5) Wizards to duel each other for more control of the Astral Planes.

Where the "Planeswalkers" channel the power of the Mana from the Land, the "Titans" are born of the Land. They are an intrinsic part of each Astral Plane and can cross over to other Planes to control more power in the known Universe.

The "Titans" give their team of Wizards the power to conjure beings from different Planes and Lands. And furthermore grant them the ability to defend the "Titan's" interest and very existence.

But the "Titans" are merely apparitions, projections of their Ethereal selves in the plane of the Wizard's choosing. This form is temporal and can be "expelled" from that realm of existence - just like the more mortal beings such as the "Planeswalkers". The use of physical wounds or magical attacks can force a "Titan's" projection to be removed from an Astral Plane until his group of Wizards have enough power to summon him anew.

(Edit - need to step back and think about this some more...)

Note: I will NOT use the term "Planeswalkers" instead I will infer them by saying things like "Those who traveled the planes" or "Beings who would walk through various dimensions of existence". Things like that. Naturally people *might* (not all) understand that I am referring to Magic's "Planeswalkers". But never directly.

And this would oddly mean that the "Era of the Titans" came BEFORE the one of the "Planeswalkers". Which is cool because in truth it is diametric opposite: Magic was designed before Wizardry TCG (WIZ). But the time periods in the games are inverted...

I think this has good potential for making a plausible "backstory" to WIZ.

Anybody care to comment/share their thoughts?

Cut those chains!

You seem to be fixating on M:TG a lot, which might not be helpful. I worry when I see a game where almost everything is defined (maybe not in the game rules, but in your discussion) with reference to another game. And, more to the point, one single game. I know M:TG is the dominant CCG, but the sooner you start thinking of Wizardry as its own thing, the sooner you can take it in new directions that will allow it to properly grow into something new.

If I see someone defining their game's backstory in (thinly disguised) terms of another game, like you are doing here, I think that this looks like a lack of imagination, rather than a clever twist of existing work. Taking from many different sources is creative; taking from one is stealing. You are clearly capable of building a complex and detailed game; surely you can build your own world in a less derivative way.

Just my thoughts.

I second what @poly said. You

I second what @poly said.

You draw too much inspiration from M:TG, wanted to write a paragraph about it earlier but I was afraid to sound rude. You really should add something new to your game as well as your setting/backstory.

What I liked for example is the magic system in the older ULTIMA computer games: Where magic is heavily influenced by alchemy. the various spells require components instead of colored mana. this creates a whole different feel of "magic".

also the old pnp-RPG "Fighting Fantasy" or "Ars Magicka" used "components" or "materials" to fuel their spells. I can especially recommend "Ars Magicka" because they divided all classical wizard archetypes into "Houses" that are rivalling and have different techniques of casting their spells. thats really refreshing.

otherwise: keep it up @quest!

And one more pinch of salt

I can't help but notice that every time you post your game idea, it sounds like it's already a completed and tested design and now you're just finalizing it, picking names and other intricacies of the setting.

I probably wouldn't bother about all this until at least the basic concept is proven to work.
It will save you time in the end. Chances are, you're going to print 15 cards, shuffle them around and realize that the foundation of your game still needs work to be fun.

And if that happens, then suddenly it doesn't matter if it's titans or planeswalkers or whatnot. So why waste effort on it at this stage?

Start with the very basics. Come up with 3 different cards per wizard and play 3-4 turns against yourself. You will learn a lot, and you will spot potential issues, if any.

For example, you've stated that the game is meant to be a filler. One would probably expect <30 minutes play time from a game like this.

Have you tested if it's even viable to have a deckbuilder with 5 different decks to be played in <30 minutes?
Your desired play time should dictate the mechanics, not the other way around.

Simply trying to help here.

This and my last post only

This and my last post only deal with the setting, not the rules.

One more suggestion:

What I liked about the miniature wargame "Chronopia" where the elvish wizards. they eat lotus petals in various colors to do their magic. this is essentially the same thing as the navigators in "dune" consuming spice.

so all the elf wizards are basically drugged, highly addicted to that substance and are craving all the time to gather even more lotus in order to cast their high magic spells.

i really like ideas like these!

WIZ is not Magic

@Polyobsessive: The backstory is not definite. It's just an idea.

Why I am "fixated" on Magic is because I want to be sufficiently different from that game. But in the grandiose story of the game, I sort of wanted to give the feeling of being the pre-cursor to Magic (this was something I was doing in another game - which I abandoned because it was not fun).

Just on the mechanics alone, WIZ is almost completely different than Magic. We have polyhedral dice for Mana, we have five (5) distinct Wizards with their own "buy" piles, we have deck-building as a game mechanic (not only passive - but active), we have a bunch of cards to deal with the "strongest minion syndrome" (Banishing, Transmutation, Assassination, etc.), cards get played several times (not only once), etc.

@ElKobold: You are right. I should focus on making a prototype and playing the game - to see if it is indeed FUN or not. But it takes time to make a prototype. I'll probably work on it over the weekend. I've actually "designed" (conceived) all 60 starter cards. There is some minor details that need to be complete - but the starter decks are done already.

When I say "done", I mean the cards are "thought up", not made. So I have a spreadsheet with 60 distinct cards (names, abilities, mana, etc.) But it's not 100% done. Maybe 90% - enough for prototyping.

@Fhizban: See my response to Poly - since you are also concerned with how I presented the "backstory"...

As I said MOST of the inspiration for this game is from PREVIOUS games that I HAVE DESIGNED. But all those games turned out to be utter failures in terms of FUN and strategy. However there were interesting components that I have "merged" together to create parts of WIZ.

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