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Adult board Game

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Anonymous

Has anyone made any attempts at an adult board game. What problems did you encounter? (if any).

I have the prototype ready to go for the one I have, I was just wondering if there is anything I should look out for.

Thanks!
-T

zaiga
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Adult board Game

What do you mean with "adult board game"?

- René Wiersma

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Adult as in content. Sexually suggestive. Things you would see in either a Specers or an adult book store.

Johan
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Joined: 10/05/2008
Adult board Game

Hello

I have tried to look at this in an objective way and but the moral issues is always in the background.

As I see it, you have several main problems you have to solve:
- Who is going to play this game? It will not be the ordinary gamer, so the game has to have really easy rules. You don't want a debate about the rules, in the middle of the game.
- It will probably have a market, but do you want to be connected to adult books, magazines, videos and so on.
- You working with emotions and that can backfire.
- You have to decide where to draw the line. There are very thin lines between Sexually suggestive, porn and to be a pervert. You have also to decide if it going to be comical or a serious game.
- Your main problem will be the test. You can do a lot of test by your self (or with your partner) but how are you going to get a blind test group that is honest about the game!

// Johan

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Thanks for the insight. We have tried to assess most of those things when designing. We know it will only be marketed to a very small group of people.

As for the moral issues I really can only see one. The moral issue for this game would be for the people deciding to buy, or not to buy it. They know what it relates to when they look at the box and the decision is on them.

I can see the point about getting playtesters. Gotta be REAL good friends to play this one. We played it without actually "performing" a couple times to make sure the logistics of the games (how it flows, money, stuff like that) played out, and it seems to work fine.

Emotions, yes, but once again if you buy it you know what its about. Heck My wife and I played Monopoly once and she got ticked at me for playing by the rules. (I made her mortgage a property over $1) This game was designed so that pretty much everyone is a winner.

We have 4 "stages" in the game that the players decide on (low, medium, high, extreme) and the game explicitness cannot progress past that stage once determined (its one of the setup rules) So the players determine (as you put it) the pervert factor :P The first two being very tame (you'd see it on network TV, the third you would probably see on HBO and the last, well, thats the one you would have to be careful with.

Thanks for bringing some of the problems I might face to light. Much appreciated! Now what kind of problems can one expect for regular board games as well or is it pretty much the same stuff?

phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
...

Regarding the idea of an adult game... I've always wondered why people want / create adult games? I can semiunderstand adult computer video games. They are popular for the same reason we (the US) have a thriving pornography industry. But an adult board game? I understand the novelty / foreplay factor inherent in such a game, but is it worth spending all the time,effort and money towards publishing such an item? You have to realize that games of this type are usually given as a (gag) gift and probably never played, or it will be played maybe once or twice at best? Do you really expect people to play this game a lot? Due to the very nature of the game, it's either inappropriate to ask to play it with other people, or at the very least uncomfortable/embarassing. Is this a game to be played between couples to increase sensuality? Is so that's fine, but again, can you really expect more than 1 or 2 plays before it gets shoved into the closet for good? If it's a game to be played between 'friends', then what is the goal? Is it to promote promiscious behavior between the participants? I.E. Are you expecting/hoping the game will erupt into a wild orgy? If so won't that damage the future relationships of the players? I mean once you cross 'the line' there really is no going back. So I guess I just wonder what your motivation is to create such a game. I'm not trying to be close minded, but it just seems you haven't really weighed the possible benefits versus the negatives with regard to the amount of resources you will have to shell out to bring such a game to fruition.... Thoughts?

-Darke

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Ok here is the target market for this game (or any multi couple adult game). Swingers. Period. We realize this and are focusing on this demographic. There are few to no games in this genre and the market seems ripe for one. Granted it's a VERY small demographic but then again some mainstream games hit a small demographic as well.

This is not a question of morals or how many times it will be played. I asked about problems that I might run into with production (like finding a publisher, printing costs, prototyping problems) Thats all I asked for. Not moral judgements.

I have weighed the outcome of it. Money is not an issue. I'm not doing this for the money. I just think this type of game would bring a smile to people who play.

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Adult board Game

thalor24 wrote:

I asked about problems that I might run into with production (like finding a publisher, printing costs, prototyping problems) Thats all I asked for.

Thalor, to be fair, in your initial post, you didn't make your question this specific, but instead just asked what kinds of problems people who had previously produced had encountered.

My strong suspicion is that the overwhelming majority of designers here are probably involved in designing mainstream kinds of games. If you're really looking for an answer to your questions, another route might be to look up games in this genre on the BoardGameGeek site and contact the publishers of similar games directly. You'll probably get a lot more answers and a bit less controversy.

-Jeff

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Thanks for the tip on the other site. I'll check it out there. I just didn't expect a Spanish Inquisition from the members here. This is a great site with alot of fantastic tips and ideas, but some I guess not everyone is as open minded as I'd like. But that is ok, I wish everyone success with thier games, and hope to see them on the shelves soon!

Anonymous
Regardless of the genre...

If you are looking for answers about production of a board game, I recommend you go to GTS (GAMA Trade Show) and see if you can get a little time with some board game manufacturers there and ask them who they use/recommend.

GTS is held in Las Vegas each year. I forget when, but I think it is March or may. :-) An "M" month.

Best regards,

Rainsford

phpbbadmin
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Adult board Game

thalor42 wrote:
Thanks for the tip on the other site. I'll check it out there. I just didn't expect a Spanish Inquisition from the members here. This is a great site with alot of fantastic tips and ideas, but some I guess not everyone is as open minded as I'd like. But that is ok, I wish everyone success with their games, and hope to see them on the shelves soon!

There was nothing even remotely reseambling 'the spanish inquistion' in my post, so I don't know if you were referring to my comments at all. All of my comments, concerns and questions were genuine and I really do expect an answer to them. If not directed at me then at yourself. Producing a game is a serious matter, and something that should not be taken lightly. I just want to make sure you ask yourself the right questions before you 'take the plunge'. An adult game, especially a 'swingers' game, will be a every risky venture because of the niche market of the game.

-Darke

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Adult board Game

I'm afraid I have to agree with Darke that I don't think you've been the recipient of anything even remotely resembling the 3rd degree that we're capable of! If interested, you might do a forum search for a topic on a board game called "Politics" that I recall getting pretty detailed, or check out any of the Game Design Workshop sessions. As Darke says, we are game designers moreso than we are game publishers, and as such, we take the craft of game design pretty seriously -- maybe too seriously, but hey, that's just how we are. We challenge one another to produce our best work, to answer tough questions, to consider alternative solutions or alternate perspectives and viewpoints. And, I hasten to remind you, that all of the responses you received were well within the scope of what your initial post requested...

To be frank, I think producing a game for "swingers", you're setting yourself up for all manner of criticism, and it will get much worse than any treatment you've received here. A little thicker skin is probably in order, and perhaps an appropriate awareness that finding a game concept morally questionable doesn't have to make one "closed-minded" in a pejorative sense; it might be more productive to view differences of opinion in this matter as just that -- differences of opinion. It would reflect the extension of the principle of charity to the discussion that you're asking people to extend you, and frankly from what most would consider the shakier foundation...

-Jeff

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Perhaps I was a bit "thin skinned" about it. I apologize to anyone who took offense to my reaction. As you know as developers, you (at least I am) very protective of ideas and I know I get a bit wonky when someone questions them. :P Thanks for all the hints on websites and I do appreciate the candor with which you presented yourselves. Sorry about my outburst, I was stressed out (job interview -- which I got today.)

That being said. I do expect some "problems" due to the nature of the game. But I have seen adult games in book stores and Spencers Gift Shops so they must be able to be published "somewhere" I have done some research on the web and found some places to start looking. Also I will be contacting some of the publishers listed on the boxes of already published games. But if anyone has ANY hints in that direction please forward them to me.

Just a side note the game has the POSSIBILITY of becoming a really adult game.....but it can be as tame as "Spin the Bottle" if the players choose. That was one of the design issues we wanted to make sure was right. Let the players choose the level....so we could include a wider demographic.

I am taking this game seriously and do not make light of your profession or hobby as it were. It is tough. Which is why I did not expect that the genre of the game would come into play when asking for advice. Perhaps I should have left out that it was an adult game...but then again I wanted to know.

Now, the genre non-withstanding. What types of problems did people run into with thier games that I should be looking out for (besides criticism about it being "adult"). Any information will be greeted with appreciation.

Some questions for people who have prototyped....do you own plotters or do you just print and cut the paper? Would you suggest the purchase of a plotter? Where do you get supplies (boards, spinners) that kind of thing.

One other thing. I'm not looking to cause any controversy....I'm just looking for advice from seasoned people in the field of designing fun.

Thanks
Thalor42

Anonymous
Re: Regardless of the genre...

Rainsford wrote:
If you are looking for answers about production of a board game, I recommend you go to GTS (GAMA Trade Show) and see if you can get a little time with some board game manufacturers there and ask them who they use/recommend.

GTS is held in Las Vegas each year. I forget when, but I think it is March or may. :-) An "M" month.

Best regards,

Rainsford

Thanks for the info. The wife and I were thinking of going the Las Vegas this year. Perhaps this would be a good time.

Thanks!

Anonymous
Adult board Game

I think the "Spanish Inquisition" comment isn't out of bounds. thalor42 posted some questions and got a huge amount of additional info he/she didn't expect. So for thalor42 this was all unexpected.

I suspect the problem began with the original post. thalor42, no doubt, included "adult board game" as a point of reference but had no interest in discussing the moral merits and potential financial merits of producing this sort fo niche game.

I have no idea how big the mark is, but if thalor42 wants to produce a game for this one then cool. (I have no desire to do so myself, but that is beside the point. I also have no desire to design a CCG and/or miniatures game.)

So the initial post was a little unclear and the follow-up posts are exasserbating the initial posts lack of clarity.

thalor42: IF you meant to ask:

"Has anyone made any attempts at a (very niche market) board game. What problems did you encounter? (if any).

I have the prototype ready to go for the one I have, I was just wondering if there is anything I should look out for."

Then my response is "Yes, there is a ton of things to look out for. This whole forum has discussed many and I recommend you casually wander through the older posts to glean what info you can. Oh, and go to GTS and talk to publishers.

Darkehorse: You said "Producing a game is a serious matter, and something that should not be taken lightly."

Um, are you serious? Game design and publishing is like any other profession or job out there. It should be taken as you need to take it - seriously or not.

I take a lighthearted aproach to game publishing. Others are serious about it. Some are way, way, way too serious about it.

But please... thalor is a big person. He/she doesn't need that sort of overly-generalized, condesending bs about the seriousness of the game design/publishing industry. [please note - this statement, while being critical, is being said in a casual and friendly manner. If that didn't come across then I apologize.]

Thalor has stated, in follow-up posts, that he/she knows the market and will be publishing. Questioning the viability of those choices seems misguided. Giving advice on how best to get the game published, I think, was what Thalor was asking about.

Best regards,

Rainsford

Best regards,

phpbbadmin
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Adult board Game

Rainsford wrote:
I think the "Spanish Inquisition" comment isn't out of bounds. thalor42 posted some questions and got a huge amount of additional info he/she didn't expect. So for thalor42 this was all unexpected.

I suspect the problem began with the original post. thalor42, no doubt, included "adult board game" as a point of reference but had no interest in discussing the moral merits and potential financial merits of producing this sort fo niche game.

I have no idea how big the mark is, but if thalor42 wants to produce a game for this one then cool. (I have no desire to do so myself, but that is beside the point. I also have no desire to design a CCG and/or miniatures game.)

So the initial post was a little unclear and the follow-up posts are exasserbating the initial posts lack of clarity.

thalor42: IF you meant to ask:

"Has anyone made any attempts at a (very niche market) board game. What problems did you encounter? (if any).

I have the prototype ready to go for the one I have, I was just wondering if there is anything I should look out for."

Then my response is "Yes, there is a ton of things to look out for. This whole forum has discussed many and I recommend you casually wander through the older posts to glean what info you can. Oh, and go to GTS and talk to publishers.

Darkehorse: You said "Producing a game is a serious matter, and something that should not be taken lightly."

Um, are you serious? Game design and publishing is like any other profession or job out there. It should be taken as you need to take it - seriously or not.

I take a lighthearted aproach to game publishing. Others are serious about it. Some are way, way, way too serious about it.

But please... thalor is a big person. He/she doesn't need that sort of overly-generalized, condesending bs about the seriousness of the game design/publishing industry. [please note - this statement, while being critical, is being said in a casual and friendly manner. If that didn't come across then I apologize.]

Thalor has stated, in follow-up posts, that he/she knows the market and will be publishing. Questioning the viability of those choices seems misguided. Giving advice on how best to get the game published, I think, was what Thalor was asking about.

Best regards,

Rainsford

Best regards,

We will have to agree to disagree on just about everything.

-Darke

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Regardless of opinions that everyone has. I thank everyone for thier input and welcome any help. Thanks!

thalor42

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Irrespective of my own personal feelings on the subject of your game, you will probably have problems at many stages of the process of getting your game produced and to market. Many companies will take issue with the material for their own reasons and that is something you will have to expect and accept. Some may itterate their unwillingness to deal with the subject matter, others may not and may simply stonewall your attempts to get information from them.

Either way, you will need to focus on finding publishers/printers/distributors that not only will handle your material, but will be able to get it into the hands of the niche market to which you need to make your product available.

I'm not experienced in publishing or distribution, but I predict that you will probably lose money on your game. That's not a judgment, simply a feeling that I get from looking over other game's business cases. You will need to print a run of 3-5k to get the printing costs down. Distributing that many is hard enough with widely accepted subject matter. You will have a much harder time with not only the narrow appeal of your game, but also the unwillingness of many distributors to even try and push it.

It will be a challenge for you, but it sounds like you are willing (and capitalized?) to see it through. For that, congratulations! You may just find yourself sitting on a few thousand copies in your garage or attic for the number of years it will take to sell them all. From what you have said, you're not taking this from a business case so that may be OK.

Many have mentioned conventions where games publishers and distributors gather, that's a great start, but you will also probably want to attend conventions where purveyors of other adult-themed novelties gather. I'm sure there is one (it wouldn't surprise me if it were in Vegas). Find it and make it your priority. You will probably make more contacts to distribute your specific game (think of it as a novelty and not a game) that you will with more conventional game companies (though you never know!). Either way, find others who have done something similar to what you are looking to do and mold your business plan after them.

Either way you will face an uphill battle because of the subject (again, that's not a judgment, just an observation of people in general).

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Yes, I gather that we would take some flack from people/publishers/printers, but if there are adult games out there, then surely they had to get published somehow.....

Thanks for the insight into some of the problems we'll encounter. Now is this based on the fact its an adult game or just games in general?

CAn someone give me common bumps in the road that "normal" games encounter? Lets not focus on "it's an adult game" that dead horse has been beaten. :P

Thanks again for the input!

-Thalor42

phpbbadmin
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Adult board Game

thalor42 wrote:

CAn someone give me common bumps in the road that "normal" games encounter? Lets not focus on "it's an adult game" that dead horse has been beaten. :P

I'm not dead yet! (Bad Monty Python reference!)

Anonymous
Adult board Game

ROFLMAO

I can't take him...he says he's not dead.

:P

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Any published game is only as good as its channels of distribution. I don't run a game company (there are plenty of others on this site that can speak from their experiences), but the ones that I have researched use many channels of distribution to get their game into the marketplace. From what I have heard about GTS, it's a GREAT place to meet and talk to distributors as well as game publishers (though I haven't been so I'll leave it up to former attendees to tell you their stories).

The biggest bump from the design aspect is not getting your game blind playtested enough to hammer out the mechanics and balance issues. Blind playtesting will reveal problems with your rules (are they unclear, etc.) and will give you an indication of how well the end user will be able to learn and play your game.

Are you planning on self-publishing or finding a publisher? There are a ton of threads on this site regarding the pitfalls and problems from the publishing end of things (check out the Game Publishing forum). Namely, getting good quality files to a reputable printer and then having a decent run size to keep printing costs low.

You (or the publisher if that isn't you) will have to weigh the purchase price (MSRP based to a large degree on supply/demand, similar games in the market, and perceived value) and then work to keep the publishing costs within a profitable margin. This is where you will have an advantage if you don't care if you make money or not. Of course, this presumes that you will be self publishing the game. If you use a publisher, they will be VERY interested in making money from the game, so you will have less control over the costs of getting your game to the market.

Typically, the game should cost about 10% of the MSRP to make. It would be sold to the distributor for 40% of the MSRP (and you will probably need to pay shipping). If you self publish, you will have a lot more leeway as far as the cost to produce the game (if you don't want to make any money, make the game at up to 40% of MSRP).

Of course, just making the game doesn't mean that they will sell. Many designers have a LOT of their self-published games in their garages waiting for a buyer. Using distributors will really help you move your game if there is a demand, but only if you get the distributor that supplies that market area. This is where it is important to find distributors with proven successes in your specific market (those that can get your game in the places where your potential marked niche will find it and buy it).

If the MSRP is $20, and you print 5,000 for $2 each at a cost of $10,000, you will need to sell 1,250 at 40% MSRP just to cover the cost of publishing. And that doesn;t cover any shipping or incidental costs (like attending GTS or other trade shows).

In the end, market demand will drive the number of games you will be able to sell. You may burn through them all in short time and need to print more, you may sell a few hundred and find several thousand in a storage locker (or worse, in a warehouse with all sorts of storage fees). Self publishing will insulate you from a wide range of business concerns involving losses and hold-over product from one business year to another (low turnover of stock is very bad unless you don't care if you'll make money).

If you don't go the self-publishing route, then you will be at the mercy of the publisher as far as run size and distribution, but you will be far more likely to see your game do well (assuming you find a publisher with the right channels to get your game to the desired market). In this case, you will probably make a small percentage (I think 3-5%) of the number of games sold.

If you are an unpublished designer, then finding the publisher that will do your game justice will be a challenge. The publisher must share your thinking that an untapped market exists and can be tapped, as well as the willingness to do so. In addition, they will also have to be willing to take a chance on a relatively unknown designer (I'm assuming you are unpublished). All of which stacks the odds against you.

My suggestion still stands that you look at your game as part of the novelty market and approach purveyors of like products with your idea. They may be more willing to take a chance on you than a publisher that is dedicated to games.

That's about as generic as it gets. There are a ton of threads with more specific information for just about every aspect of game design and publication. There are risks involved in every decision that you will have to make, but only you will be able to weigh your options and choose a course to pursue.

Chip
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Adult board Game

You might want to check out or contact Kheper Games - www.khepergames.com. They make a variety of "adult content" items, some of which are games.

I came upon them recently while doing some prep work for the upcoming Toy Fair in NY. They happen to have a booth next to mine at the show.

Chip

Chip
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Adult board Game

One of the biggest decisions you'll ultimately make, and the one that will cost the most money, is deciding how many games to initially produce. There's obviously much to do before and after this decision, but you can't change this one after the fact. (As an aside, you might want to read through the threads that deal with playtesting. I know someone mentioned it here already. It's important enough to make note of it again though.)

Back to the production question - the economics of games, as with anything, say that the more you produce the less you'll pay per item. Makes sense. I had been told and still hear people talk about 2500 being the magical breakeven quantity (if you're lucky). At 5000 you might start making a little money.

I was extremely tempted after getting production quotes for my first game to make at least 2500 games and even considered 5000. When I ran various production/financial scenarios for Coopetition (our first game) and Stumblebum (our second game which was just completed a couple weeks ago), I came to a different conclusion. I was very leary of the "thousands of games sitting in storage for a couple years because I can't sell them" scenario and thus looked and devised a way to bring my production quantities down yet still come out okay in the overall financial scheme of things. I was able to do this using a few different tactics.

Everybody's situation and products are different to some extent. If I could only suggest one thing though, it would be to figure out a way to produce just what you think you'll need to launch your game, to put yourself on the map so to speak. This means you might need to get a little creative and not do what seems to make sense. If you're crazy enough to get into this business and launch a game yourself, you need to be crazy enough to do what makes sense for your own business not necessarily what everybody else is doing or has done. Think through various scenarios, be realistic (if not down right pessimistic), and do your homework. Talk to people, get their stories, determine how others people's experience jive with yours and then go for it.

If money's not an issue, then feel free to disregard my suggestion. (Feel free to disregard it anyway.)

Chip

Johan
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Adult board Game

Hi

There are a lot of people in this forum that know how to produce and sell games. There are also a lot of knowledge about selling games by there own, but I have not seen one that have tried to sell this kind of games.

Your questions should be: Do I have any connections that could help me sell this game? Do I know anyone that can help me produce the game? Do I know where should I start?
If the answer were NO to all the questions, I would not try to produce the game on my own.

If I would do this game, I would try to sell it to an adult magazine or something similar.
Do the tests that are necessary and then create a sellable prototype. When you have don that contact magazines that could be in the right area for the game. The game could go as a extra gift in the magazine. Maybe you don?t make a huge profit from the game, but at least you minimizing the risk.

// Johan

Anonymous
Adult board Game

Johan wrote:
Hi

There are a lot of people in this forum that know how to produce and sell games. There are also a lot of knowledge about selling games by there own, but I have not seen one that have tried to sell this kind of games.

Your questions should be: Do I have any connections that could help me sell this game? Do I know anyone that can help me produce the game? Do I know where should I start?
If the answer were NO to all the questions, I would not try to produce the game on my own.

If I would do this game, I would try to sell it to an adult magazine or something similar.
Do the tests that are necessary and then create a sellable prototype. When you have don that contact magazines that could be in the right area for the game. The game could go as a extra gift in the magazine. Maybe you don?t make a huge profit from the game, but at least you minimizing the risk.

// Johan

first off Thanks to all who replied I am taking all advice tossed my way.

To answer the questions posed.

1. Connections : I am looking into publishers to help with that.
2. Production: Yes I have several people who can help with producing the game
3. Where to start : Yes I know where I am going to unveil the game and even where I can sell it reliably. (apart from online, book stores and the like)

Doing it with a magazine is an interesting idea. I'll look in to that too.

twobob
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Adult board Game

Thalor42 - how's your game going?

I've also got a game for the 'adult' market - but don't read 'riske' (if that's a word!) or 'kinky'. It's more of a game that pub goers will enjoy while sipping on a beer with friends (and it doesn't involve drinking!). Literally 100s of people have played it - and everyone keeps coming back to play again - so I belive it has 'legs'!

So if you've got any good recommendations for agents, designers, publishers or distributors for this market segment, I'd be grateful if you could share them!

Cheers .... TwoBob

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