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Card game or board game

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RoBarto
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Joined: 12/31/1969

I am still working on my soccer game (see post: Sports Games) and I'm actually thinking of tokens now. Currently the mechanics of the game are only dependent on cards (action cards...). Some aspects of the game are not directly related to cards (play area, score...) but could easily be simulated by using cards (i.e. you get a goal card for every goal you score). Obviously other score-keeping mechanisms could be more elegant but goal cards will also do just fine.

Hence my question: would there be a good reason (I mean any reason: production, distribution...) to restrict the game to a cards game ?

I've read of some other games that use cards as their main tokens but some of them include some small board (although it's not essential), while others solve the same issue with cards, so this wasn't really conclusive.

Hedge-o-Matic
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Card game or board game

There are definitely logistical and financial considerations if you've got more than one type of componant for your game. Card printers won't supply tokens, and most companies that have stock game items (chips, dice) don't do custom injection-molding plastic work. Each company you contract with is a potential headache, and the lead times and expenses must be carefully balanced in order to have actual shippable sets. Consider that boards and boxes are likely to be seperate companies, and the instruction booklet, depending on its format, might be different as well.

However, I'd recommend not designing your games with this as your primary concern, considering the many hurdles to achieving a market-ready product. You can always farm the game around to publishers who are better equiped than you to make the game a marketable reality.

Jpwoo
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Card game or board game

I think that card only games can be rather elegant.

If you are close you should at least mock up and test a card only version just to see how you like it.

One of the most interesting aspects of bohnanza is the card elimination with scoring.

Julius
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Card game or board game

Julius' Dirt Simple Soccer Card Game

Cards:
Pass - Play to move the ball up field.
Steal - Play to gain control of the ball.
Block - Play to prevent a goal kick.
Goal Kick - Play to score a goal when you are within range.

Note: The order is from "most common" to "least common" - I don't know what exact percentages or counts of each would be best.

Other objects needed: A coin or other object to represent the ball.

Setup:
Shuffle the deck and draw seven cards each. Deal seven more cards face down in a horizontal row between the players to represent the field. Flip a coin to see who has posession first. Place the ball on that player's side of the field to represent posession, next to the center of the field.

Object:
To score the most points. If score, you must move the ball to the end of the field, and kick a goal.

Play:
On your turn, you may play a card or draw a card. There is no maximum hand size.

Playing a 'pass' advances the ball up the field one space towards your opponent's goal.
Playing a 'steal' card changes posession of the ball to you. It maintains its position on the field.
You may only play a 'goal kick' card when you are at the end of the field (next to your opponent's goal).
If your opponent plays a 'goal kick' you can play a 'block' on your turn to prevent it.

* If a goal is prevented, the other player gains control of the ball, and it is kicked back up the field to the center.
* If a goal is not prevented, the player who kicked the goal scores one point. That player maintains posession (is this correct? I don't play soccer), and starts again at the middle of the field.

After a goal is scored, players discard their hand, and draw seven new cards.

Winning:
The first two score 3 goals wins.

soulbeach
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Card game or board game

I agree with what was said: card games can be elegant, parts might need to be ordered seperatly: there's also game makers who can provide everything from cards to tokens and packaging.

You could have the game be a card game and include a small, card sized, thick, token sheet. On that sheet, put the ball and maybe some goal tokens and a made coin to flip.

soul

RobBartel
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Card game or board game

Interesting question and one I'm facing with some of my designs as well.

Purely card-games are obviously cheaper to produce and tend to have correspondingly lower retail prices as well ($10-20 USD, typically). As a result, they can represent a lower barrier of entry to those looking to self-publish or build a new publishing business (Z-Man Games, for instance, appears to have built themselves up to their current position by focusing first on the card games market - Zev, if you're reading this, please chime in with some insights).

I'm curious, though. How does the size of the card game market compare to that of the board-game market? Does the same rule of 7 still apply (keep your manufacturing costs to 1/7th of retail price to remain profitable)? Is there significant crossover between the two markets? If I release a card-based version and board-based version of the same game, am I building complementary markets, cannibalizing my market, or serving to entirely separate markets? I'd be really interested in learning more about how the two compare.

In my particular case, I've designed a boardgame for a startup publisher and am working with them to establish seed capital and initial cashflow. One of the ideas under discussion has been to take the exact same deck of cards used in the boardgame variant and create a similarly-themed card game out of them. The perceived benefits would be that we could amortize the setup costs for the cards across two separate games, use the card game to finance publication of the more expensive board game, and generally build an audience for the larger title.

Crazy? Not crazy? What do you think?

Cheers,
Rob

RoBarto
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Soccer game

Julius:

the game I have in mind plays a bit the way you describe (although obviously somewhat more complex). Nevertheless I think your simple description perfectly shows my issue: do I include a pitch (board) or do I build the board using cards ? Do I include some kind of score-keeping board or do I just have goal-cards that you get for scoring a goal. From game mechanics point of view there is no difference. But maybe players find a board much more attractive (especially for something as 2D as a soccer pitch) than a line of cards. On the other hand a card game may be produced much more cheaply than a board game...

RobBartel: (people may start confusing us with these similar names ;-)

you also list some of my concerns: are these two markets different / overlapping / the same ? Maybe some publishers prefer card games while others may prefer board games...

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Card game or board game

For a soccer game I definitely see a board working better than a bunch of cards laid out to form a modular board.... You have no need for terrain randomization, which is usually the prime motivator for modular boards... it's very hard to keep cards together in a neat and coherent grid on the table anyway, especially if there's going to be a lot of picking up and moving around of bits on their surfaces.

Come to think of it, maybe a printed cloth/felt mat would be even nicer.

~Josh

Julius
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Card game or board game

There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and it looks like you've got your finger on them so I won't go into detail.

I'd prefer a real board to the one built out of cards, myself. I was just posting an example of how it could be done with just cards. If you decide to use a board, there are many other things you can do other than just use it as a playmat. It adds tons of opportunities.

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Card game or board game

I think board games are the ultimate,

but card games are cool too.

My most favorite creation is a board game period.

if you do make a soccer board game,
I think it would be cool to add like a chaos round where
you can flick the token/ball and see where it crashes, hopefully
in the goal.

Gogolski
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Card game or board game

When I think about sport-boardgames, I think mostly of them as boardgames, because most sports have a movement-component in them that dictate an overal view and a flexibility in movement to get the right feel of the sport when you play the game.

A board alows for easy overview of the game and for nicely adjustable movement, while cards will not easily capture the view of the game and both resolve distances and movement of players...

Cheese!

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Card game or board game

yeah I agree, in many sports
the field, or the court is very important.

If you change that, you change the feel of the game.
example NBA basketball vs Street hoops

or even get murderball.

the board game can provide the over view of the field.

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