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CCG failure

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CIDIC
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Joined: 12/31/1969

after several months of design work i have failed to create anything original enough to be worth while in my eyes. everything has been done, and I just can't seem to break free with somthing new. I still have a few things that are original and working but hardly enough to create a full game. I guess what i really need is a different theme. I was going with a sort of parrellel ww1/2 setting with a war theme, but that just isn't working. I just need some new insperation.

Jebbou
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CCG failure

Hello CIDIC,

Results of a quick brainstorm session (with myself) , in case you want to stick to ww2:

1) Add character to your game with leaders or events that occured during ww2
2) Change the scale of your game:
- Scale it down to the commando level, and personalize commando members with skills and equipments
- Scale it up to the army level, and manage divisions and resources (fuel, munition, food)
3) If you want to go with a "paralel" ww2 version, you still can add fantastic stuff such as:
- Aliens (What if Hittler made a deal with aliens)
- Robots (What if Japan had created an army of robots, like a tank with four legs, or a Spider Artilery, mix real life weapons and vehicules with robotic part)
- Monsters (What if Germany had succesfully created a horde of giant monsters)

Hope it helps,

Regards,

OutsideLime
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG failure

Are you specifically searching for a unique CCG theme? CCGs are very difficult because there is SO much content to be created and balanced. Try to get your head around the idea of Card Rarity as a balancing factor ("well, yeah, the Hiroshima card gives you an instant win, but there's only one of them in the world") and you'll get a glimpse of the difficulty of trying to even out and playtest such a game.

It's also hard to settle on a narrow theme because it restricts future expansion, which is the lifeblood of the genre.... as such, broad themes such as "magic duels" "medieval war" "robot battles" "pirates (cannibals or otherwise)" are the norm. Most of those themes have been trodden over several times and have been done well at least once.

Does the game have to be a CCG? Maybe shrink it down to a regular old CG. That doesn't restrict it from being expanded later, after all.

What is it about your game that makes it unique? Maybe you can zoom in on that and find the inspiration you seek. If you're particulary happy with the mechanic you've created for, i dunno, antiaircraft battles.... make your game focus on that and really make it shine. Maybe you'll find some game trait that springs out from such a focusing-in that will revitalize your work.

Don't give up, though. Set it aside if you have to, but keep those gears turning.

~Josh

Jebbou
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CCG failure

The more I think about it, the more I think that a steam-punk WW2 setup would be great! I can already see the "Tiger" tank, made out of dark metal, with four clawed legs, a tiger head in front , and a turret on its back with a huge cannon. Or the "Hydra" V2- Rocket launcher, with many heads each having a missile ready to be launched.

The possibilities are endless :)

Good weekend!

Jeb

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
CCG failure

Is it really the theme your problem?

The theme is generally never a problem. A bad theme can only narrow down the number of people interested to the game which can also be yourself.

If you intended to make a WW2 game, is because you like the theme. Do you like other WW2 games?

Maybe the game mechanics works bad with the theme which is not impossible.

Or maybe it is simply no the theme the problem, but the game itself. If you change the theme, check if the game is really more interesting.

I have not seen your game, but I might think that it is the game, since I already tried to make something that looked alike in a CCG and it did not worked pretty well.

Nestalawe
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Joined: 08/07/2008
CCG failure

OutsideLime wrote:
It's also hard to settle on a narrow theme because it restricts future expansion, which is the lifeblood of the genre.... as such, broad themes such as "magic duels" "medieval war" "robot battles" "pirates (cannibals or otherwise)" are the norm.

Yeah Pirate Cannibals have been totally overdone, I know, cos I am trying to crack into the bitter market at the moment myself (donchaknow).

Steampunk is always good in my books, and can be expanded upon in so many fun and flavoursome ways.

But then again, why does it have to be a CCG? Wouldn't it be better to focus on something manageable, then if that is successful morph it into a CCG?

Bulldog is already trying to make a 30,000 card game, so I guess that market is also cornered, but wouldn't it be wise to get a 'small scale' really nice and tight, then expand upon that, rather than charging straight into a CCG?

I've never played any CCGs myself and don't really intend to, but if you are having blocks, whittle it down, get it nice, then grow from there...

Zzzzz
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Joined: 06/20/2008
CCG failure

Ah.... themes are always tough. But if you really like the ww2/ww1 area, have you tried tackling your theme from different angles?

Not having much knowledge of ww1/ww2 themes (besides the obvious) and not know much about current CCGs that contain this theme. I would guess the majority of the games tend to focus on the combat/soldier/weapon.... I beat your "army" you beat my "army" direction.

Is this the direction that you are currently attacking your game theme?

Maybe your CCG idea could involve the standard items like Soldiers (maybe even more detailed like Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines..etc), Weapons, Ammo but as the "mana" of the CCG. While the cards represent entire infantry units, various air strikes, medic/healing cards, leadership cards, etc.

Look at the war from a "higher level" (10,000 ft view), so lets not think about the soldier on solider direction, but maybe entire infantry units, air strikes, tank invasions... Maybe from a "Battle" direction, so players are playing at a level that resembles "Battle of Midway" type of actions. Not at a level of my power 3 solider hit your power 2 solider for 3 points, you solider dies... blah blah blah...

I dunno I am just rambling now, but I guess what I am trying to ask you, have you tried to tackle the ww1/ww2 theme from multiple directions? I am sure you can figure out a way to create a game based on ww1/ww2 that promotes the theme from a direction different than games currently out there, though I understand it is very very hard.

*****silly thoughts*****
So for a small example of what I might attempt to do with this theme. Each player starts out with 3 bases in front of them. These are the front line bases, behind these 3 front line bases, there are 6 mid line bases, behind the 6 mid line bases is a single main head quarters base. So each player has a board like

FL1 FL2 FL3
M1 M2 M3 M4 M5 M6
HQ

Now each player starts buy populating their own board, playing one card at a time, filling in their field of battle with infantry units, leadership cards, air support, etc... Using the "mana" cards of soliders, weapons, ammo etc to play these other cards onto the battle field. Maybe all units need to start at the headquarters and move out into the battle field (maybe players are allowed to move X things in the battle field each round). The goal, take control of your opponents head quarters. So you might have a two player game board that looks like

HQ
M1 M2 M3 M4 M5 M6 -------> Player 1
FL1 FL2 FL3

FL1 FL2 FL3
M1 M2 M3 M4 M5 M6 -------> Player 2
HQ

Figure out some ideas of how players can battle and take control of opposing players battlefield locations. Allowing them to work toward control of their opponents main headquarters. Maybe you allow players to reenforce frontline forces with forces from the midline, allow forces in the battle field to "call in" request for air strike support (but obviously the player needs to have some type of air support card in their hand to play this option...).... so on...

*****end of silly thoughts*****

larienna
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CCG failure

Or you can do the opposite, you control a company of soldiers who wander around ennemy territories with many mission opportunity. Still it sounds more like a solo ccg.

Jebbou
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Joined: 07/29/2008
CCG failure

Good morning,

Just as Josh said:

OutsideLime wrote:
Don't give up, though. Set it aside if you have to, but keep those gears turning.

Since your game can be modified, added cards, added rules, rethemed, I would not consider it a "failure". You might think you have reached a dead-end, but still, it might just be a temporary lack of inspiration. Personally, I think you have A LOT of material using the WW2 theme: with seven years of combat, tragical deaths, new weapon developments, battelfields and tactics, aerial combats, supplies issues, great and not so great leaders, political aliances.

These are the three advices that come to my mind.
1) Analyse your game to find out what your game lacks. Easier said than done, read further, as maybe my two other advice could help.

2) Take a break. Being too focused on elements of your game can make you loose the overall picture, and inspiration. By taking a break of WW2, and looking at games similar to your own, but still with a different theme, you might find elements or mechanics you could integrate to your game that would not have though about. Also, looking at your game after a small break, you might find what your game lacks more easily, or have new ideas.

3) Resource yourself. Being the opposite of my second advice, instead of steping back and setting aside World War Two, immerge yourself in it by watching movies, reading historical books or novels, playing WW2 games. You might find elements you have not though about, that could add character or theme to your game.

I hope it helps.

Do not give up!

Jeb

CIDIC
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG failure

the thing i got stuck on was the battle system and the resource management. I just can't seem to get a uniqe battle system, and if thats just a copy than whats the point? i dunno i just want something that has a feel all its own not a game that can be explained by saying "its like magic except...". The theme really wasn't the problem, it was mechanics, I got the game goal mechanic DOWN hard, it is a mechanic that hasn't been done before, can be easily learned and its just great. But i don't have any resource or combat system to complement it. I've gone through so many different ideas i just need sum help. I think i'm too close and i need an outside view. I realize also that i want a game that you have alot of strategic options and decisions to make in the game, not just build your deck and play for the most part on auto pilot. but i don't want to make a bland card set with little deckbuilding potential. I just need a solid combat system. thats really all i need right now.

buthrukaur
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Battle Mechanic and resources - Questions

Do you want Solo based, Squad based or Army based combat?

Are you willing to take the game into a non-ccg base, using dice, tiles, a stock ticket, or wrestling weasels?

Are the resources randomly generated or card play driven?

Are you looking to recreate the feel of a specific battle or multiple specific battles or simulate the war as a whole?

Do you even need a combat mechanic? Can it be a strategic simulation, like generals plotting the battle on a map before the battle commences?

~Ben

Anonymous
Hail the emperor

I have an idea for a CCG or CG. And it could be original.

My first problem with the CCG market is: "all the games are combat oriented." You could make a WW2 game that isn't purely combat oriented.
Maybe more political & war. Like a huge grand scale battle level.

Or what about one village and the war.

One of my CG's is about jews surviving in a concentration camp.
It's very politically incorrect, so it will never be printed.

Maybe one day. (When I have my own company.)

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