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CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

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zobmie
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Joined: 12/31/1969

I recently had an idea for a card game, and i need a little feedback to keep the development process moving along. My idea is to make a CCG based on RPG's where the players make characters out of character cards, a class card, and equipment, and then fight each other or go through a dungeon crawl type setting.

This may not be anything new or special or anything, but the idea i did have that i need help with is the way i want to do the classes.

There will be 4 generic classes
Fighter
Priest
Rogue
and Mage

each of the 4 generic classes will have a different game mechanic for pulling off class specific moves.

The fighter has 3 different stances, defensive, agressive, and something else i haven't decided yet. There will be 3 slots in each stance, and the fighter chooses what stance to take at the beginning of the round. He can only play cards from that stance and only play cards into other stances. Depending on which stance he is in, the fighter will recieve bonuses to combat.

The Mage will rely on a 3x3 grid and spell cards. The spell cards have arrows on different locations on the card. You place the spell card on the grid, and to cast it, you must fill the spaces pointed to by the arrows on the card. Depending on what cards you fill the spaces with, your spells may take different effects.

The Rogue will rely on getting and playing Poker hands, pair, 3 of a kind, flush, etc. some of the abilites have a minimum requirement (two pair) to play, and some just get better the higher your hand is.

i haven't figured out the priest quite yet, but if you have any ideas, let me know.

There will be an obvious player versus player element, where each character will sqaure off in battle reducing the hit points of their opponent to zero in order to win.

But the part i am exited about is the dungeon play. You can choose to make a dungeon deck where you play monsters, treasure, rooms and traps, and you don't have a certain amount of hit points or mana. You discard cards to get other cards out, and your opponent has to get through your entire deck to beat the dungeon.

The biggest problem, and the reason i haven't developed this further is because there is the daunting question of wheather all of these different mechanics will be balanceable.

I want game play to be very fair and balanced, but is it possible with so many things going on at once?

sincerely confused
andy

Anonymous
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

Quote:
I want game play to be very fair and balanced, but is it possible with so many things going on at once?

I think that it's hard to find a set of ideas that can't be balanced. If you start trying to hold certain values in place, then you can run into serious trouble.

Maybe it's really easy for the Fighter to do damage, but it's really hard for the Rogue to put together a good hand to attack with. Does that make them unbalanced? Not if you fiddle with the numbers a bit. You can just make the Rogue's abilities more powerful (explained maybe as a superior knowledge of his foe's weak points) than the Fighter's. Or if that gets too weird, then maybe you could introduce a sort of Added Effect to the Rogue's attacks, so that even with a Two Pair attack, he still poisons his opponent to wear him down slowly.

The possibilities are endless. I wouldn't wonder so much about the balance, but just get started on it, and play some test battles out to see what you get.

-Peter-[/b]

sedjtroll
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Joined: 07/21/2008
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

It would be cool to see a D&D CCG, but I think it would have to work like this:

One player plays a DM deck, and the other player plays a PC deck. The DM deck has monsters and traps and treasure and puzzles in it. The PC deck has Player Characters, equipment, spells, etc.

The PC player might start with certain cards in play- like the 4 characters (Rogue, Fighter, Cleric, Mage), each at "level 1" with minimal stuff. As they defeat traps, monsters, etc in the DM deck, they gain XP. The characters could get better as their XP goes up- maybe there's a spell card that you can only play if your Mage is Level 3 for example. But you'd also have to draw it.

Or alternatively, there could be a little deck of cards for each character (this could be a multiplayer game with one player per character, or a 2 player game with 1 player playing all the characters) and depending on the character's level certain cards are available to them.

In real D&D it's not really PC vs DM, but in a CCG I think it would have to be.

- Seth

Anonymous
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

Well - you might want to look at the Munchkin card game.

It's not a CCG, and it's very silly, but in that game, players choose cards to represent their class, race, equipment, etc.

Then they go through the dungeon fighting monsters.

it might give you some ideas of what to/not to do :) (and it's a fun game)

zobmie
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

I was thinking about the whole XP points and leveling up thing, and it just doesn't seem like it would work for a card game in the traditional sence. Plus i'd want to do something a little different.

Keeping track of experience points would be kind of a pain in the butt, so i think each class should level up based on something different. when the fighter pulls off a move from each of his stances, he levels up. When the Wizard performs a certain spell, but uses x more cards in the casting of it than needed, he can choose to cast the more powerful spell, or level up.

I don't really want combat to go longer than 30 minutes if at all possible. I want the battles to be fast and furious, and then have it be best 2 out of 3 for standard play.

with combat being so short, you wont be able to gain many levels, even if you spread the leveling up over 3 rounds. So i think putting a level cap at around 3 for standard vs play would be good. You get to add you level to certain things, and in some instances, abilities cannot be played unless you are at a certain level.

If you were playing against a DM, your levels would stay with you throughout the dungeon, but if you were playing a long campaign, you lose the levels you had when you go to the new dungeon, but you gain more cards in your deck, or more slots for equipment, or something like that.

I don't want the focus of the game to be on the level grind, but it is an element that should be involved. I want the game to represent the strategy aspect of playing role-playing games, character building and tactical combat. From there i think the game could actually be used as a role playing game where you play long campaigns and the DM's deck gets progressively more difficult to beat by adding more cards and giving the dm more resources.

DMing in this game should not be like dming in a role playing game however. In a regular role playing game, you set up challenges that are appropriate for the characters level. The DM's goal is to challenge the players and ensure they are having a good time.

In this game, i want the DM to do everything in his power to fully destroy all the player characters. Game balance will take care of the rest.

OrlandoPat
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Joined: 10/16/2008
So - not so much DM'ing as group play...

Quote:
In this game, i want the DM to do everything in his power to fully destroy all the player characters

It sounds like you're not so much interested in having a DM as having the ability for one player to take on several others. For example, if the cards have "values" associated with them, one player could have a 200 pt deck and take on two people, each of whom is using a 100 pt deck?

zobmie
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Re: So - not so much DM'ing as group play...

OrlandoPat wrote:
Quote:
In this game, i want the DM to do everything in his power to fully destroy all the player characters

It sounds like you're not so much interested in having a DM as having the ability for one player to take on several others. For example, if the cards have "values" associated with them, one player could have a 200 pt deck and take on two people, each of whom is using a 100 pt deck?

Ideally i'd like the gameplay of the DM deck to be equally suited to taking 2 or more opponents as easily as they would be able to take one without having a point system

but this is just a lofty and idealistic dream.

The very nature of multiplayer game where people all team up on one guy puts the DM deck at a huge disadvatage, but playing a one player vs DM would be unfair to the PC.

There must be some way of doing it.

im going to go turn my brain upside down
goodnight

onew0rd
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

don't lose hope. The best way to do this is the way OrlandoPat said. Make it that everyone has to play with X amount of cards. 50 for the Fighter and priest, 30 for the Wizard, 40 for the Thief. 60 for the DM. Then make it that each card has a value of 1 to 7 or so. So a powerful effect would be a 7. A weak effect would be a 1. Then force all PCs to have a 100 point limit. Then the DM can have 200 points in his deck.

Have all cards have the number value also plays a secondary role. This is the actual game effect value of the card. So an energy card is a 7 in cost for your deck, but it's also a 7 in game value (worth 7 "energy" for casting a spell, boosting a thiefs abilities, etc). Then make all the equipment and such be really cheap. Like a sword costs 3, dagger 1, etc. But they have very little energy.

I am actually liking this very much.

zobmie
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

that might just work
I could also wanted to make all the energy values suited for the rogue and for various other mechanics that could present themselves in the game. I was thinking about going along with the tarot, just cause it seems to fit so nicely

swords - fighter
wands - mage
coins - rogue
cups - priest

so a really powerful move that was a melee attack, even if it wasn't exclusively a fighter move would be like a 7 of swords for example.

Anonymous
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

onew0rd wrote:
This is the actual game effect value of the card. So an energy card is a 7 in cost for your deck, but it's also a 7 in game value (worth 7 "energy" for casting a spell, boosting a thiefs abilities, etc). Then make all the equipment and such be really cheap. Like a sword costs 3, dagger 1, etc.

This concept works well in miniature games as the units are fixed, where things have varying costs and you're only allowed a certain number of points. However, in a CCG, if you go this road, you'll inevitably lead everyone to the whole "weenie" approach as hoards of cheaper X will prove the most effective.

Also, with CCG's, you probably want to stray away from anything that would cause a player to need more than 100 cards TOPS -- and preferably more like 80.

zobmie
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Joined: 12/31/1969
CCG with multiple mechanics. HELP!

well, since the only reason we would need a point system is for the DM deck, i would like to avoid points altogether.

Maybe all dm cards have a cost. when you play a card, you discard its cost in cards from the top of your deck into the discard pile. Basically milling yourself. Maybe you could reduce costs for playing these cards based on how many players you are going up against.

so playing a big nasty dragon might be 10 cards in the discard pile, but if there are 4 players going up against you, you could reduce the cost by 4.

thats just an example, but do you think that mechanic would scale the difficulty enough to handle multiple players?

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