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eventcards

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johant
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Joined: 12/31/1969

In the the game that i am currently developing, the players will have to deal with certain things that will continously affect them in a negative way.

It will be possible to buy eventcards that will help them overcome these effects.

At the moment there are three things that could happen.

I have come up with 3 cards that deal with these three situations.

I will apart from these three eventcards add one extra card for another purpose. In total there are four eventcards.

All of the will help the players in different ways. The cards will be needed in order to minimize negative effects through out the whole game!

Now to my question.

What should i consider when i am figuring out the total numbers of the cards?
(if i add for example more eventcards it will be more difficult to get the card that you want.
Im thinking about having 12 cards of each (12, 12, 12, 12)!!
It makes it easy to know what your chances are of drawing one.

Any suggestions on how to deal with the fact that more different cards leads to lesser chance of getting the one you want?

Whats best, using 12 of each, 9 or something else?

Its still 25 % chance of picking the right card at least at the beginning of the game, but i would like to now how it affects the game.

----
Any thoughts on how to come up with the cost of the cards?

For example you pay 2 now for each eventvard and that will save you 4 later when you use it (example)

seo
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Joined: 07/21/2008
Re: eventcards

johant wrote:
Whats best, using 12 of each, 9 or something else?

Its still 25 % chance of picking the right card at least at the beginning of the game, but i would like to now how it affects the game.

The more copies of each card you have, the higher the chances of having n cards you don't need in succession. While you always have 25% chances for the next card to be the one you need, the more cards in your deck the longer the chain of useless cards you might have to endure before you finally get the right card.

Seo

Emphyrio
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Joined: 02/10/2010
eventcards

To a first approximation, it doesn't matter how many you have (12 vs. 9) as long as you have the same number of each. If you need a particular card, each time you draw a card, you have a 25% chance of getting it, so on average you will get one after 2 or 3 draws.

However, the probabilities change slightly as cards are drawn (unless each card is replaced and the deck reshuffled before another card is drawn). For example, after drawing one card from a deck of 48 cards (12 of each type), your chances are about 23.4% (11/47) of drawing the same type again, vs. 25.5% (12/47) for the other 3 types. This tends to be self-correcting, so the probabilities will tend to stay more or less near 25% each, but the more cards you have, the closer the odds will tend to stay to 25%.

So if you want the odds to stay balanced, you should try to figure out how many cards will be out of the deck (in players' hands or in the discard pile) at maximum, and make sure there are still a reasonable number in the deck at that point.

Also, if you only have a few of each type, it may be possible for a player to get all of the cards of one type, or to guess which players have which cards and how many of each type remain, which may introduce distortions into your gameplay. Of course, in many games this is the point.

seo
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Joined: 07/21/2008
eventcards

Emphyrio wrote:
However, the probabilities change slightly as cards are drawn (unless each card is replaced and the deck reshuffled before another card is drawn). For example, after drawing one card from a deck of 48 cards (12 of each type), your chances are about 23.4% (11/47) of drawing the same type again, vs. 25.5% (12/47) for the other 3 types. This tends to be self-correcting, so the probabilities will tend to stay more or less near 25% each, but the more cards you have, the closer the odds will tend to stay to 25%.

This is very true, and to some extent, gives you the opposite advice to mine, for the same reasons.

So, to explain it more clearly: You have an initial 25% chance for the next card to be of one particular kind. The more cards you have in the deck, the less this pobability will vary. If you had an infinite amount of cards, the chances would always remain at 25%. So if you're looking for balance, this means the more cards the better. So far.

On the other hand, while you have an initial 25% chance, you also have some random variation affecting this chance, meaning that while statistics have a real value, in practice you also have to deal with the random factor creating a difference between what is likely and what will actually happen. Even a 99% chance of something leaves room for some other outcome, and you should also take this into account when balancing your deck.

So, as you add cards to your deck to keep it balanced as cards are drawn, you also increase the chances of spending quite a long time without a card of some particular kind being drawn, or with too many being drawn in sequence. This might pose a problem to your game dynamics. Following this reasoning, the advice would be to keep the deck as small as possible (probably having to return the cards once used and reshuffling the deck).

I reckon the best you can do is begin with a deck of any size you feel might work (based on the other parts of your game, how many cards are kept in hand by the players, etc.) and playtest. If you see a problem arising because you spent too much time without being able to draw the right card, try reducing the deck. If this problem doesn't arise, but constant reshuffling is needed, try increasing the size of the deck and see what happens.

Seo

johant
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Joined: 12/31/1969
eventcards

...Following this reasoning, the advice would be to keep the deck as small as possible (probably having to return the cards once used and reshuffling the deck).

That pretty well sums it up! Thanks for the advice.

I would like to have your opinion on this idea!

Lets stick with the four different cards and 12 of each
(12,12,12,12)

During the game the cards drawn will be kept as far as i can see.

Is it a bad idea to have these cards in different colors?
(or you could have a symbol on the back of the card)

Then you will know what card you are actually buying and you can act according to this information.

Johan

seo
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Joined: 07/21/2008
eventcards

If I understand your idea correctly, wouldn't it be the same as placing the deck face up? Or the 12 copies of each card are different in some other way?

More to the point of your question, it all depends on how your game goes, but as a general rule I would always go for the face up option, yes. Most people here, me included, and probably most game players, favour strategy over pure luck. I would say most games use randomness (dice, shuffling a deck of cards, etc.) to add some variation from play to play, and to balance a bit (but not too much) the differences between experienced and rookie players (or mediocre and good players), so that even if you're not the best player on the table, you still have some chance.

Having the cards hidden until AFTER you get them adds randomness (it's like having to pay for a dice roll and depending on the result getting something you want versus paying to obtain that something). Having the cards face up gives you the choice to spend resources to get a card you need (or your rivals might need). As a general rule, giving meaningfull decisions to players is a good thing.

But in the end it's all a matter of what your game needs. Different games might benefit from any of the two alternatives. Some games even add a third option: you pay to peek at a face down deck and then decide whether or not to pick the card. That way you have a meaningfull choice to take (spend resources to gain information for the card/not card decision, or save resources for other stuff and take a blind choice over the card issue), but also keep the blind path open. This might lead to some unbalance due to players with more resources having an extra advantadge (they can pay to get info before they decide, while other players might not have enough respurces to pay for that info, thus being forced to decide blinfoldedly). But balance is not always good, and unbalance is not always bad.

Seo

Seo

johant
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Joined: 12/31/1969
eventcards

If I understand your idea correctly, wouldn't it be the same as placing the deck face up?
Thats more ore less the same thing!

In your example you know what card lies on top!

If you add colors to the cards then i just thought that it will be possible to get a picture of the other cards as well. But that is maybe to reveal to much.

Im playtesting it at the moment, this discussion has been a great help.
Edit: Maybe it will be possible to buy the second card if you dont wont the first card on top!

Thanks

johan

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