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Heaven vs Hell card game

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CIDIC
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Heaven vs Hell Card game

2 sides use their Daemons/Angels and indirect influence on people to corrupt and recruit their souls for the battle between Heaven and Hell.

Each soul has a value and a Virtue/Sin stat. The higher the virtue the easier it is for Heaven to obtain his soul, the higher the Sin the easier it is for Hell to obtain it. The Angels/Daemons you control are called minions, and can use indirect influence cards to modify the Virtue or Sin stats of a soul. The worth of the soul is a measure of the resources you will gain from obtaining it. These resources are called soul tokens. Every soul you capture produces a number of soul tokens every turn during the reset phase.

Phases:
Reset (get soul tokens, draw cards, add mortals to the play area)
Recruit (Angels/Daemons)
Influence (indirect influence on the mortals)
Harvest (end mortal lives and obtain their souls)

Game Setup and play.

Players start with God/Devil cards, that produce (5?) soul tokens every turn. This gives the players some resources to start out with, and starting resources. Players are then dealt 5 cards to keep in hand, and 5 mortals are placed face up, between the players on the table.

Recruit
Players recruit minions (Angels/Daemons) to their ranks. Minions cost a number of soul tokens shown on their card. Each minion card has on one half an Angel and on the other a Daemon. The cards are balanced so that if you draw a Minion card with a weaker angel, the Daemon half of the card will be a powerful Daemon. This balances the game because although you may have drawn an unfortunately weaker Angel card, at the same time you are now holding a powerful Daemon card that your opponent won't be able to draw because it is in your hand.

During the recruit phase players may put minions into play from their hand. The cost of these minions is payed immediately.

Influence
Players put influence cards from their hand into play, paying their cost accordingly. When influence cards are played they target a mortal, but these influential actions must be performed by one of your minions. Minions have a power stat that shows how powerful they are, this stat is used to pay for the acts influence they perform. If an influence card has a cost of 5 and the minion performing it has a power of 3, it will cost you 2 soul tokens to play it. If the power of the minion is more than the cost of the influence card, the act of influence has no cost. More than one act of influence may be played by one minion, but the minions power is consumed. For example you could play an influence card that cost 2 and an influence card that cost 3, on a minion that has power 5, and have no additional cost. When you play an influence card the minion must use as much of his power as possible, you cannot play an influence card that cost 3 on a minion with power 5 and pay 2 soul tokens and only use 1 of the minions power to pay for the cost of the influence card. If a minion has no power left over from an influence card then he may not play any more influence cards this turn.

Influence cards place a number of Sin/Virtue counters on a target mortal.

Harvest

During the harvest phase players attempt to end the lives of mortals when the Sin/Virtue of the mortal has been swayed to the desired amount. Players now use their minions to smite the mortals in play. Minions that used acts of influence in the influence phase may not perform actions in the harvest phase. Minions use their FURY stats in the harvest phase. Players take turns allocating minions to different mortals until everyone passes. Players can then contest the fate of these mortals. One player may have allocated a minion to a mortal to attempt to smite the mortal, while another player may have allocated his minion to protect the mortal from crossing over. A mortals fate is contested using the Sin/Virtue of the mortal and the Fury of the minions involved. Players add the Sin/Virtue of the mortal and the Fury of their minion, they then add this to the result rolled on a die. Who ever has the highest total wins the contest and may choose to either smite or spare the mortal involved. The minion on the losing side of this contest is destroyed, and placed back into the deck.

If a mortal is killed then his soul is immediately contested between Heaven and Hell. To resolve where this mortal will spend his afterlife, players each roll a die and add the number of Sin/Virtue on the contested mortal. The one with the highest result is now the owner of this mortals soul, and will get a number of soul tokens equal to his worth during every reset phase.

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this is what i have so far, i still need to come up with the cards (wich will probly be the hardest part).

Card types and stats:

Minion (Angel/Daemon):
-cost
-Fury
-power (couldn't think of a different name for it, the stat was called influence but i changed it for now to cause less confusion)

Influence
-cost
-effect (either add X amount of Sin or X amount of Virtue to target mortal)

Mortals
-Starting Sin
-Starting Virtue
-special abilities

right now i have not decided what type of 'die' to use, since i haven't playtested or made any of the cards yet. But i am thinking D10 to give a wider range of possibility to the stats of the game. I am also considering adding a battle phase to the end of the phase list where both sides use their minions to fight, but i haven't thought of much more for it beyond that. I'm still deciding what the winning condition will be too, there are a few obvious ways to do it but i still dunno, it all needs playtesting. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I would particularly like to hear what you think of the 'angel/daemon on the same card with inverse power to keep the game balanced' mechanic.

daem0n_faust
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Heaven vs Hell card game

Do angel/daemon cards have lengthy ability texts? That could mean smaller texts or longer cards. Although that should be nice (to have both in a card).

I think your game is not very unique (in theme) but it seems to have a nice mechanic. Could you have a playtest version for it?

Triktrak
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Heaven vs Hell card game

I'm exactly the opposite. I had some trouble visualizing the mechanics, but loved the theme.

phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Heaven vs Hell card game

I think every christian has envisioned a spiritual warfare game... However I think it's easier imagined than done... Plus it's a sticky subject matter, especially when you ponder how the demonic aspect of the game will 'play out' (no pun intended). Do you let the players play the devil's advocate against each other (which may be somewhat offensive to people who aren't as light heartened about the subject matter as others) or let the players play against the game system.

At any rate, good luck with your game. I assume you've checked out Redemption? It's a game that's kind of similar to the idea you're working on.

-Darke

CIDIC
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Heaven vs Hell card game

well, i'm very aware that the theme has been done before. I thought up the game mechanic, and then realized it would fit this theme nicely. I'm not a very religious person so, to be honest i couldn't careless whom is offended by it.

also why did it take so long for anyone to reply to my post? is this just that un-interesting? i atleast thought i had an original game mechanic goin

phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Heaven vs Hell card game

CIDIC wrote:
well, i'm very aware that the theme has been done before. I thought up the game mechanic, and then realized it would fit this theme nicely. I'm not a very religious person so, to be honest i couldn't careless whom is offended by it.

also why did it take so long for anyone to reply to my post? is this just that un-interesting? i atleast thought i had an original game mechanic goin

Not to be harsh, but what's so original about it? Theme and mechanics have all been done before in some fashion or another. There's nothing really groundbreaking about any of it. Let me guess, you thought this game up after seeing Constantine?

-Darke

Zzzzz
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Joined: 06/20/2008
Heaven vs Hell card game

CIDIC wrote:

also why did it take so long for anyone to reply to my post? is this just that un-interesting? i atleast thought i had an original game mechanic goin

Well I for one dont always have the time to keep up with every post. Many others are the same way and it just takes time. You are getting posts, but you have to realize that many people are seeking feedback and it just takes time for people to respond.

I personally feel you have an ok game in the works, but I have not had time to think about suggestions for you. As a quick comment, do you need a battle phase? I was thinking and it might be nice to figure out some end game goal that involved "majority" control of mortal soul tokens. Sort of the Heaven is stronger then Hell, or vice versa. This might be a change in directions, but I think you can do more original ideas like dealing with a majority control of souls to win the game.... anyways I will keep pondering more ideas for you, but remember it takes time :)

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Heaven vs Hell card game

CIDIC wrote:
well, i'm very aware that the theme has been done before. I thought up the game mechanic, and then realized it would fit this theme nicely. I'm not a very religious person so, to be honest i couldn't careless whom is offended by it.

Well, 2 points for honesy but -3 points for lack of diplomacy!

Quote:

also why did it take so long for anyone to reply to my post? is this just that un-interesting? i atleast thought i had an original game mechanic goin

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to say about your game, but here are a few things I've found about ways to increase the likelihood that folks will respond to one's posts:

-- Respond to a lot of other people's posts!

This is a community, and people are more likely to want to help you if they know that you're going to help them in return, or that you already have. There are some folks here on the board who, when they ask for help, I'm far more likely to help simply because I know them. Become a well-known member of the community, and your posts will get answered in an eyeblink. There's no shortcut for this process, but long-term, it pays off in a big way.

-- Don't be hyper secretive

Your post wasn't, but I figured I'd mention it anyway -- we get a lot of posts that read like "I have this totally kewl game, but sorry, I can't say anything about it". Refusing to disclose any details will guarantee that you won't whet anyone's appetite to want to get involved in the discussion.

-- Don't post all the rules

at least, not in the forums. This is the opposite error, and it's the one you're guilty of. Pick one or two aspects of your game that you'd specifically like help with, and post those. To just post all the rules and then end with a blanket "so, what do you think?" is not likely to produce much discussion, because you're asking the readers to (a) read through a lot of rules, which takes time, and (b) to define the terms of the conversation.

That last bit is, I'd say, the crucial insight -- you must have control of the conversation you're seeking to have, and you must make it clear what it is that you want to talk about. It's no coincidence that your simple, direct question "why did it take so long for anyone to respond?" generated as many replies as your original post.

Hope this is helpful for future reference...

-Jeff

Nando
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Joined: 07/22/2008
Heaven vs Hell card game

Questions posed at the top of a post allow readers to consider possible responses as they read along.

sedjtroll
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Joined: 07/21/2008
Heaven vs Hell card game

This type of game - theme anyway- might work well with something else which has been discussed on these boards... jwarrend's 'new combat/fighting system' thread.

- Seth

CIDIC
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Heaven vs Hell card game

Ok, here is my direct question:
What do you think of the dual card mechanic?

both players draw from one deck, and the the idea that 1 card has both an angel and a deamon on it, if the angel is a particularly weak one then the deamon will be a particularly strong one. so while you have unfortunately drawn a weaker card, you are also preventing your opponent from drawing a stonger card because it is in your hand (or in play) and not in the draw pile.

and yes i know the them isn't the most original but like i said before i came up with this game mechanic and emidiately thought of this theme to fit it to. any suggestions of themes these mechanics could be used for would be much appreciated.

and as for posting alot of comments, i'm not a successful or experienced game designer, i offer comments when i can but i'm not an expert, and often don't know what to say.

Gogolski
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Heaven vs Hell card game

First of all, I have folowed this discussion and I think that this game looks rather playable and VERY fun. (I'm not the antichrist-impersonated, nor am I particularly religious... Another discussion/not my point)

Quote:
Ok, here is my direct question:
What do you think of the dual card mechanic?

both players draw from one deck, and the the idea that 1 card has both an angel and a deamon on it,...I realy like this! In a game I am testing right now, (http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Journal&file=display&jid=389), I have +/- the same mechanic.

Every card has two to four symbols on it, representing the two to four options the card has when it is played. As you will probably want to do more than you can with the cards in your hand, the core mechanic revolves on what card you use for what action and what other card you keep for an action you would like to do later.

Quote:
...if the angel is a particularly weak one then the deamon will be a particularly strong one. so while you have unfortunately drawn a weaker card, you are also preventing your opponent from drawing a stonger card because it is in your hand (or in play) and not in the draw pile.
I don't realy aprove of this kind of thinking. I have put the options on the cards into two cathegories, and have then crossed every possible combination. It probably has to do with the fact that my game can be played with up to 4 players (maybe even 5, don't know yet....)
In a two player game, the all-for-one-none-for-the-other-option might contribute to the level of strategy you can put in it, but in a more-than-two-player-game (especially with mostly more than two options on one card), it probably detracts... (Or better: it probably is too narrow to be used to the best...)

Anyway, I rather have a game with both weak and strong cards, but with a mechanic that alows for changing or adjusting cards, than drawing a card with an option that is great-for-one-crap-for-the-other or not-just-crap-for-both...

Cheese!
-Fred-

Cheese.
-Fred-

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