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Hippodice

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jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Hippodice

FastLearner wrote:
jwarrend wrote:
It doesn't seem in the spirit of the competition to force the American designers to break the bank paying for rush shipping due to not having enough notice to get the prototypes out on time.

Or perhaps it's perfectly within the spirit of the competition. Perhaps they prefer European entrants.

Ouch! Perhaps you could be right about that. There's no question that Americans have placed well in the competition in the past, though I don't recall whether there's been an American winner or not. Still, it's all the more incentive for us to work to bring Darkehorse's idea of an "American Hippodice" to fruition.

I posted a suggestion to this end in the Admin forum, but it got zero response, so I'll put it out here for the group as a whole: as Darke noted, the thing about doing an American Hippodice is finding a group that's willing to invest several months in nothing but playtesting. I don't actually think we'd be able to find an analogous group here in the US, but what we might look for is a loose confederation of many gaming groups all in one area. Just such an organization happens to exist in the Boston area, and are organized under the moniker "Unity Games". Moreover, the current SAZ president, Alan Moon resides in the Boston area, and is very involved with Unity Games. I think that if he were to spearhead such a contest, it would give the contest some clout, and as the SAZ chairman, it would be in his interest since it would give up-and-comers the sense that SAZ was actively trying to help them. Moreover, it would help establish SAZ in America, which Mr. Moon is trying to do. (And, to drum up membership, he could perhaps make entry in the competition free for SAZ members).

The other obstacle is finding judges for the final 10, but between Rio Grande, Mayfair, Out of the Box, Days of Wonder, Uberplay, Face2Face, and the many up-and-coming companies, there's definitely a deep enough pool from which to draw judges.

I think it could really happen, and would be a huge boon to American designers. Any thoughts? Should I write to Mr. Moon, or does one of the other admins (or someone else) want to do it?

-J

sedjtroll
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Hippodice

jwarrend wrote:
Should I write to Mr. Moon, or does one of the other admins (or someone else) want to do it?

Jeff, I think you have a very clear grasp on how this could be done, and I think it would be a great idea to contact Mr Moon about it. I would love to participate in the playtesting portion of the contest, or possibly enter a game once in a while, but I don't know how viable that would be due to group considerations.

I say go for it, drop Alan Moon an e-mail or bring it up on SAZ- maybe since it's coming from you (and by extension, us) the BGDF could both lend credibility to the idea and benefit from any outcome...

If you want someone to help out wth the structure, or the letter to Alan, or whatever then give me a PM.

- Seth

Anonymous
Hippodice

I'll go ahead and add my comments:

I, also, have heard nothing from Hippodice. I'm hoping that since they're meeting this Friday, we may hear something early next week.

As for the American Hippodice (which, of course, we'll have to come up with a better name for...perhaps a pun such as Rhinopawn?), I'm sure folks in my game group (Houston Gamers) would be willing to help with the initial playtesting. There's also a couple of published designers (Ray Mulford, Kevin Nunn, apologies if I've forgotten anyone else) and small publishers (Kevin Brusky of APE Games) in the group who might also be willing to participate in this venture, although I am loathe to speak for them. Also, let's not forget Anye Sellers of Dancing Eggplant out in Austin, as a possible asset (assuming she can scrape more than two consecutive minutes together...).

FastLearner
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Hippodice

Feel free to contact Alan, certainly. I'll drop him an email now, to get his feedback on the idea of an American Hippodice. I think I discussed it with him in the past, but I don't remember for sure.

-- Matthew

Anonymous
SAZ

I think this is an excellent, excellent idea. I would post about it over at saz@yahoogroups.com. We need something to talk about there, and that does indeed seem like an appropriate forum for discussing an idea like this. I suspect that if someone is willing to line up the game club effort to do the initial testing that finding professional reviewers might in fact be quite feasible.

jwarrend
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Hippodice

I think we'll hold off on carrying the discussion over to the SAZ group for now until we hear back from Alan Moon on whether it's something SAZ wants to get involved with -- preliminary indications are positive but he needs to consult with his executive board. Then, of course, there will be the resolution of the "division of labor" issues, ie, how much will SAZ do, how much will BGDF do, etc. I'd kind of prefer the conversations remain over here, if only because it's easier to follow the discussions if they're all in one place. Although, at some point, we'll definitely have to branch out to the yahoo groups to attract the attention of those gamers and designers who don't frequent this group.

Thanks for posting! And, welcome to the group!

-Jeff

s2alexan
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Joined: 10/25/2008
Hippodice

I just heard from Hippodice this morning - they accepted my game for testing, although they re-emphasized the Dec 1 deadline (which is now exactly 10 business days away). Assuming I send it today, there's definitely no guarantee it will make it if I send it regular post - so I'm left with a courier which is $45. I emailed them asking if there was a bit of leeway for overseas designers, but it usually takes them a few days to respond, so I'm not sure what I'll do.

One thing's for sure, I won't be asking them to ship it back :) It only costs me $1.50 for parts, and maybe $3 for cardstock, so it's not worth the shipping charge to get it back.

zaiga
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Hippodice

s2alexan wrote:
I just heard from Hippodice this morning...

Oh dear, now I can't wait to leave work and go home! I'm all excited to see if I got mail from the Hippodice too! :)

- René Wiersma

emxibus
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Joined: 10/24/2008
Hippodice

Asking for opinions.

Since I sent in my game to Hippodice I have made changes which I think better the game. Is it best to just send in the older rules (the one they reviewed) or send in the revised rules? Is there any hippodice rule about sending in revised rules?

thanks,
-JR

zaiga
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Hippodice

JR,

I haven't seen a rule about sending in revised rules. Of course, to get a official answer you should contact the Hippodice guys.

My opinion is that it is OK to make small changes to the rules. I don't think the Hippodice guys will compare rulesets to see if you changed anything, as long as the changes aren't too noticeable. If you just worded things a bit differently, or tweaked the numbers a bit, then I think that would be acceptable.

On the other hand, you never know why they selected your game. Maybe they liked that one particular mechanic which you have changed! So I suggest that you be careful and don't make any changes other than very small ones.

Anyway, good luck!

- René Wiersma

Btw, apparently "Chicago" got rejected, but "Gheos" is in. Yay! :)

emxibus
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Hippodice

zaiga wrote:
On the other hand, you never know why they selected your game. Maybe they liked that one particular mechanic which you have changed! So I suggest that you be careful and don't make any changes other than very small ones.

I agree, and that's why I posted the question. I changed the number of rounds from 4 to 6 which makes the game longer (ave. 15min), but it gives you a better sense of connection with your characters (more time to develop them). It also evens out the luck factor.

Quote:

Anyway, good luck!

Btw, apparently "Chicago" got rejected, but "Gheos" is in. Yay! :)

Thanks, you too. I've been following your posts on Chicago and think it's a great game. I've read lots of good things about Gheos, but have never found the rules.

Anonymous
Hippodice

jwarrend wrote:
I think we'll hold off on carrying the discussion over to the SAZ group for now until we hear back from Alan Moon on whether it's something SAZ wants to get involved with -- preliminary indications are positive but he needs to consult with his executive board. Then, of course, there will be the resolution of the "division of labor" issues, ie, how much will SAZ do, how much will BGDF do, etc. I'd kind of prefer the conversations remain over here, if only because it's easier to follow the discussions if they're all in one place. Although, at some point, we'll definitely have to branch out to the yahoo groups to attract the attention of those gamers and designers who don't frequent this group.

I didn't realize that it had already been brought to Alan's attention. I should also note that similar conversations have been had in association with Protospiel in past years. I'm not sure who is the best contact to represent that event at this point. Also, there was an ever so brief consideration and rejection of a notion like this at Stephen Glenn's Powwow this past year. So, there is clearly participant enthusiasm, but whether enough game groups exist with the dedication to slog through all those games is another question.

I want to wish luck to all the Hippodice contributors. I know that two years ago when I participated there were indeed shipping problems, but they were reasonable upon seeing that I had sent the package soon enough and by appropriate method that it should have arrived in time. Regardless of the outcome it is an exciting and rewarding process.

Brian

sedjtroll
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Hippodice

emxibus wrote:
I've read lots of good things about Gheos, but have never found the rules.

Zaiga just posted in his Gheos playtest thread that anyone interested in Gheos rules should PM him for a link to them.

- Seth

phpbbadmin
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Hippodice

emxibus wrote:
zaiga wrote:
On the other hand, you never know why they selected your game. Maybe they liked that one particular mechanic which you have changed! So I suggest that you be careful and don't make any changes other than very small ones.

I agree, and that's why I posted the question. I changed the number of rounds from 4 to 6 which makes the game longer (ave. 15min), but it gives you a better sense of connection with your characters (more time to develop them). It also evens out the luck factor.

Quote:

Anyway, good luck!

Btw, apparently "Chicago" got rejected, but "Gheos" is in. Yay! :)

Thanks, you too. I've been following your posts on Chicago and think it's a great game. I've read lots of good things about Gheos, but have never found the rules.
Emxibus,

Perhaps include both in the rules; a 'normal version' (6 rounds) and a 'short verion (4 rounds). That way you've got them playing what you want (with the 'normal version') and it's still within what you gave in your initial description with the the 'short version'.

At any rate, congrats to you and Zaiga for making the initial screen! I hope you both do well! Please continue to keep as posted as things progress.

-Darke

IngredientX
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Hippodice

s2alexan wrote:
I just heard from Hippodice this morning - they accepted my game for testing, although they re-emphasized the Dec 1 deadline (which is now exactly 10 business days away).

Congratulations! I assume you were notified via e-mail, not snail-mail?

Scurra
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Joined: 09/11/2008
Hippodice

"All for One" made it in as well (so yay to me and Seth too ;-)

GeminiWeb
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Joined: 07/31/2008
Hippodice

Well done!

Anonymous
Hippodice

Good Luck!!!

zaiga
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Hippodice

emxibus wrote:
Thanks, you too. I've been following your posts on Chicago and think it's a great game. I've read lots of good things about Gheos, but have never found the rules.

Thanks for the compliment. I dropped you a PM about Gheos' rules.

Good luck to everyone who is selected this year. Let's hope the top 10 will be crowded with BGDF members' games!

- René Wiersma

IngredientX
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Hippodice

4.11 for me... here's to next year! :)

phpbbadmin
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Hippodice

IngredientX wrote:
4.11 for me... here's to next year! :)

Gil,

Do you know what the cut off score was?
-Darke

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Hippodice

It was 3.0. My submission, a light card game called "Santa's Reindeer", came in at 3.66, which wasn't a tremendous surprise...it's a cute game but not necessarily a gem.

It's interesting that they have 3-digit precision in their ratings. We should definitely contact them and find out how they do the initial screen before trying to do so ourselves in our contest.

Good luck to all who made the cut!

-Jeff

ensor
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Joined: 08/23/2008
Hippodice

Congrats to everyone who made it through! You'll have to keep us updated with the progress.

I heard back today, also with a 3.66 out of 6 for my game Gene Pool. I've linked the rules and other files I submitted in my journal section; if you have any comments, I'd love to hear them. Thanks,

Mark

Zzzzz
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Hippodice

I heard from Hippdice also...... 3.33 for my Invasions: Tuatha De Danaan game, which I recently posted to the GDW.

Not bad for a game I only playtested a handful of times! And as you can read in the GDW, could use some work!

Good luck to all that are in the final round!!

Scurra
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Hippodice

I scored 3.55 for my other entry this year ("Getaway!") which, like Jeff's entry, was a light card game and I wasn't really expecting it to get in unless they had a severe shortage of that sort of thing :-)

edit: hmm. 4.11, 3.55, 3.66 : maybe they don't have three-digit precision at all, but just two digit with the third repeated to make it look good? ;-)

phpbbadmin
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Hippodice

Scurra wrote:
I scored 3.55 for my other entry this year ("Getaway!") which, like Jeff's entry, was a light card game and I wasn't really expecting it to get in unless they had a severe shortage of that sort of thing :-)

edit: hmm. 4.11, 3.55, 3.66 : maybe they don't have three-digit precision at all, but just two digit with the third repeated to make it look good? ;-)

Technically that is three digits... The ones, the tenths and the hundredths. So I'm confused, you had to make a score of 3.00 or LESS? What did All for One score?

-Darke

zaiga
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Hippodice

Scurra wrote:
edit: hmm. 4.11, 3.55, 3.66 : maybe they don't have three-digit precision at all, but just two digit with the third repeated to make it look good? ;-)

Or they had nine judges.

- René Wiersma

Scurra
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Hippodice

Darkehorse wrote:
So I'm confused, you had to make a score of 3.00 or LESS? What did All for One score?

Yes, that's generally how German marks work: 1 is great and 6 is bad. (This is not the scale they used last year, which went from 1 to 15 IIRC, but is in line with the "report card" I got back, in which things were graded from 1 to 6 to one significant decimal place.)

"All for One" scored 2.44, which is not fantastic but well inside the margin needed. My friend Dave's entry (davemanUK) scored exactly 3 - so just scraped in.

s2alexan
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Joined: 10/25/2008
Hippodice

They ask for a 5 Euro banknote to be included with your prototype - is this the same thing as a bill? Like, we should send cash in the mail? Or, is it like a bank draft, or money order, or something?

Just never really heard the term "banknote" used before.

benedict
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Hippodice

A 'bank note' is the British English equivalent of the American English 'bill'.

Interestingly, if you look at the US Treasury website on paper money, the denominations are actually referred to as notes, but of course common usage is to call them bills.

Further evidence that the UK and US are "2 countries separated by a common language". ;)

Phillip

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