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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

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Nestalawe
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Hey All,

Friday at work and need some release, so though it is not really in a good state to present to ya'll...

... here is my first contribution of a game I am working on. This is a side project to the main games I am working on, but is kinda fun so would like to get it up and running ;)

The idea for this came out of another thread I started a while ago, about Avoiding Elimination in Multiplayer Wargames. I got a bit sidetracked and the idea for this game spawned...

Anyway, I have uploaded two files -

Pirates Initial Notes

Pirates Working Notes

And am keen to start getting some more feedback and ideas on how to make this a fun game to play.

The notes I have written above are VERY ROUGH. The Initial Notes is what I first blatted out to get some initial ideas down, and so my Working Notes have deviated. But the Initial Notes give a basic background to introduce you to the theme of the game. I am sure there are crucial changes/aspects that are in my head and forgot to write down, but hey...

I have also started writing up lists of Pirate-ish Weapons, Attack, Items etc, some examples being -

Slashing Attack Action - 'Whiskey in your Face and a Knife in your Belly Attack'

Bashing Attack Action - 'Secret Cabin Boys Mop Attack '

Stealing Attack Action - 'Angry Pirate Breath Attack'

Slashing Attack Item - 'Broken Rum Bottle with Lots of Sharp Pointy Bits'

Shooting Defense Action - 'Spitting half a Tooth in their Eye Defense'

etc etc. Should give you an idea of my type of tounge-in-cheek humour anyways ;)

I haven't really played many card games, and am not into CCG such as MTG etc. This is to be a stand-alone game with nothing needed but the deck of cards.

So from here, the kindof feedback I would like to get -

- How can I make sure the fights quick and nasty? I would kinda like say 75% of attacks to cause a Wound.
- How can I make it so there is no player elimination in the Cannibal War at the end?
- What are some nifty card play mechanics that may work with this game?
- What are some more crazy 'Pirate Things' I can include in the game? (PM me)
- How can I add more bluffing type mechanics into the game?

Plus a million other things I'm sure ;)

So, thanks for reading so far, hope you enjoy, and look forward to peoples thoughts/questions ;)

Cheers!

Nestalawe'

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

wow it's weird cause

a few years back I made a game that deals with
multi-player and elimination. through lots of work
I solved it my own way, and I'm happy with my result.
Basically took the arcade idea. You loose, put in another
quarter and you can jump in at any time.

n-e-ways, I personally do not like attacks and fighting
all done by dice. I want it to be descriptive. I want to do
moves. Not numbers.

the similarity we have in the way we think is pretty
freaky, I wonder if it's our up bringing or what?

Last night I went on a internet surfing spree looking up
toys from the 80s, it was awesome.
of course the major ones like He-man, GIJOE, etc.
but the true gems were the rare ones I remember as a kid.

Like Manglors, those monster guys in a egg that are like
silly putty and you can rip out their arms and put it back or
put on another arm from another Manglor.
Also Robo Force, those battle robots that look a lil like R-2,
except they got expanding arms and suction cup base.

-dete

Nestalawe
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

Quote:
Basically took the arcade idea. You loose, put in another
quarter and you can jump in at any time.

It wouldn't really work to have players pick up a new character in the final Cannibal War round, kinda goes against the style/them of play. I am now thining that the surviving pirates will have a Wound Pool, and they all keep fighting together until they all recieve a certain amount of Wounds, where they all die at once. A bit funny, but at least everyone stays in till the bitter end...

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

sounds like you took the approach of basically having one
big unit and dividing it and letting each player become that
division. In the whole if they stack up certain amount of hits
like if they were one they will all die. Like their moral is gone
or whatever.

have you heard this joke? (it's relevant)

An Imperial ship was out to sea hunting down Pirate ships.
The Lookout man rings the bell and informs the Captain he spotted
a Pirate ship. The Captain says: men, get ready for battle but 1st bring
me my red shirt! They do and they fight the pirates and win.

The next day the bell is sounded again, and the Lookout man informs
the Captain, Sir, I see TWO Pirate ships commin straight for us!
The Captain says: men, get ready for battle, but 1st bring me my red
shirt! They do and they have a tough fight but they win!

So they celebrate on a nearby island, bar-be-que, dancing, drinking,
you name it. Around the camp fire, one of the men asks the Captain:
sir, why do you always ask for the red shirt before the battle?
And the Captain responds: Because if I get injured during the battle,
I don't want you men to be discouraged by the blood on my shirt!
By that statement, the Captain had just won the hearts of all his
crew, they were all honored to have such a brave Captain.

Off to sea again, the bell is rung, the Lookout man informs:
Captain, there is not one, not two, not three, but FIVE pirate ships
heading our way!!!
The Captain responds cooly and calmly: bring me my brown pants!

hpox
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

How is it relevant? It's always time for a good pants shitting joke anyways. :)

I like the quarters idea, if you're going for a videogame feel it's perfect. The spreading of hits to everyone is a bit weird but not unknown of in games.

How about a central pool of Quarters that any player can use when they die to continue/revive. That way you can add new players at any time during the game without unbalancing the game.

Still, no one wants to die because it indirectly affect the chances of everyone.

Also, everyone is playing to the end until the last quarters. Then, one by one, they will be eliminated. But that's at the very very end so the elimination problem is tiny. In my opinion it's even better that way: just like in arcades I bet the players who just got killed off will cheer for the last player.

Nestalawe
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

Yeah I think some sort of centralised group Wound mechanic looks like the way to go. I don't want to add any other componenets to the game apart from cards (one of the design limitations I set myself, as well as wanting to have a purely card play game...) so I will have to work out some way to incorporate the Wound cards.

Maybe a fun random thing to do would be to work out how many Wounds the Pirates have already recieved, work out how much more they can take, then put this number of random Wound Cards into a seperate stack. Then whenever a Pirate takes a Wound, they draw a random one from this stack. When they are all gone, all the Pirates lose at once...

For Example, if there were two pirates - Pirate A with a Health Rating of 4, who has already taken 1 Wound from the Pirate Fight, and Pirate B with a Health Rating of 6, who has taken 2 Wounds from the Pirate Fight. Pirate A can take another (4-1) 3 Wounds and Pirate B can take another (6-2) 4 Wounds. So at the start of the Cannibal War there are (3+4) 7 random Wound Cards put into a stack, indicating how many Wounds the Pirates can take before they all die and the Cannibal Player wins...

Each Wound Card indicates a different type of Wound, so if they were random, then it would represent the random chaotic attacks the Cannibals are making against the Pirates...

Johan
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

It looks fun but when I read the intention of the game I wondered.
- First of all, both the pirates and the Cannibals are cannibals ;)

- You will have a lot of downtime in 6 players game. The first player that goes out will be the cannibal. The second player will be out of the game and if the time estimation is correct, he will wait for 30 minutes until the game ends.

- You will have a problem with the fighting order. Here is an example for a 4-player game:
Round 1: A Attacks B. B attacks C, C attacks A and A attacks D (D has nobody to attack).
Round 2: B attacks C, C attacks A. A Attacks B and B attacks D (D has nobody to attack).
Round 3: C Attacks A, A attacks B, B attacks C and C attacks D (D has nobody to attack).
Round 4 is the first time D can attacks. The reason for doing this is that D is the weakest around the table and there is no point attacking him (its better to attack the strongest player that can't attack me back).

// Johan

Nestalawe
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

Johan wrote:
First of all, both the pirates and the Cannibals are cannibals ;)

Yeah this is fully intentional ;) Makes it a bit quirkier and crazy - 'to know ones enemy one must become their enemy' etc etc...

Johan wrote:
You will have a lot of downtime in 6 players game. The first player that goes out will be the cannibal. The second player will be out of the game and if the time estimation is correct, he will wait for 30 minutes until the game ends.

Well if I can work out a 'Wound Pool' for the Cannibal War phase, then I will make it that no one is out of the game until the Wound Pool is depleted. A Pirate can just keep getting wounded until the whole stack has run out, then they all die at once, something like that. That way no single Player will get killed off and out of the game. Everyone is in it until the end.

Johan wrote:
You will have a problem with the fighting order...

Hmm, very true. How about I make it that the Last Player to be attacked is the First Player in the next turn. That way it could go -

Round 1: A Attacks B. B attacks C, C attacks A and A attacks D (D has nobody to attack, but becomes the First Player).
Round 2: D attacks C, C attacks A. A Attacks D and D attacks B (B has nobody to attack, but becomes the First Player).
Round 3: B Attacks A, A attacks C, C attacks B and B attacks D (D has nobody to attack, but becomes the First Player, etc...).

Does that work? That sounds more interesting to me as well, as Players have to think about who they are going to attack for multiple reasons, and try not to let a Plyer have two attacks in one round, or be the First Player in the next round (or both). I also like having the turn order chaneg around a lot, rather than the First Player just be the player to the right of the last First Player etc etc...

One of the main things about the game is that it should be quick and chaotic. I want to make interesting combinations, add a lot of flavour into the game, but also have a sense of urgency in the game somehow too... But at the same time I want to have tactics in there, Players need to play to their strengths and not just play cards willy nilly.

Johan
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

Nestalawe wrote:
Johan wrote:
You will have a lot of downtime in 6 players game. The first player that goes out will be the cannibal. The second player will be out of the game and if the time estimation is correct, he will wait for 30 minutes until the game ends.

Well if I can work out a 'Wound Pool' for the Cannibal War phase, then I will make it that no one is out of the game until the Wound Pool is depleted. A Pirate can just keep getting wounded until the whole stack has run out, then they all die at once, something like that. That way no single Player will get killed off and out of the game. Everyone is in it until the end.

Another way to solve the problem is that you play the leader for a group of pirates (the captain is dead so there is no natural leader). In this case you can start with for example 5 pirates each (and you can have 5 different pirates with different skills). When one player has lost all his pirates the game ends.

Quote:
Johan wrote:
You will have a problem with the fighting order...

Hmm, very true. How about I make it that the Last Player to be attacked is the First Player in the next turn. That way it could go -

I think that you should keep the attacking (and the pirates are arguing about all things), but maybe you should skip the other two phases in the turn. Instead:
- Let the actions go around the table in the way you described (and the previous player select the next player to act).
The players can do a lot of things as attacking each other, searching the wreak for items, gather food, steal from each other, building defenses and so on. Suddenly the cannibals are coming and the pirates have to cooperate to survive. The cannibals can be a random thing (when not if they show up).

// Johan

Nestalawe
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

Johan wrote:
Another way to solve the problem is that you play the leader for a group of pirates (the captain is dead so there is no natural leader). In this case you can start with for example 5 pirates each (and you can have 5 different pirates with different skills)... ...The players can do a lot of things as attacking each other, searching the wreak for items, gather food, steal from each other, building defenses and so on. Suddenly the cannibals are coming and the pirates have to cooperate to survive

I quite like this theme/idea, especially if the Pirates had no idea whenthe Cannibals would turn up. Each player would be scrambling around fighting off other players, building up their defenses, scrounging for items etc etc, then suddenly the Cannibals attack...

...but it feels like quite a different game to what I am looking to create, which is more of a 'all for one, one-on-one' general melee type game, which then turns around and becomes a 'one against the rest' collaborative game. I am interested in the idea of a game changing its focus like this, and part of my intention with this design is to see if this type of thing will work in a game. My other intention for this game is to see if it is possible to create a game where one player gets eliminated, and then 'swtiches sides' and competes against the rest of the players as a group.

Without these aspects, or restrictions, that I have set myself, I feel the game would just turn into a generic melee card game, which I wouldn't want to make.

Plus I like the idea of the Pirates eating the body parts of a dead crewmate ;) aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr...

...Though I will keep the idea of each Player controlling a group of shiprewcked Pirates for a later game, feels like it would fit well as an 'island exploration' boardgame.

Johan
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

Nestalawe wrote:
...but it feels like quite a different game to what I am looking to create...

OK. It was just suggestions.

What are the restrictions you have set up? What is importent to keep and what can be changed?

// Johan

Nestalawe
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Pirates of Cannibal Island (working title)

Johan wrote:
What are the restrictions you have set up? What is importent to keep and what can be changed?

Ok, the game concepts and outlines I have for this are -

- Each Player represents a single Pirate Shipwrecked on an island
- All Players fight each other until one is killed
- The Player who is killed changes roles and fights (as the Cannibals) against the rest of the surviving Pirates, who act in collaboration as a group.
- There are two winning conditions -
- The Cannibal Player wins if he can defeat all the surviving Pirates (thus getting his revenge for them killing him in his Pirate incarnation)
- The Surviving Pirate win, as a group, if they are able to defeat the Cannibal Player. Individual glory within the surviving Pirates can be discussed amongst themselves.
- I want to explore the concept of an eliminated Player rejoining the game in a new role, and all this entails - revenge, should they be able to 'win' if they have already been killed, how fun it would be for them, if it would be More fun to be the Player who was killed, etc.
- I want the game to be quick, and the theme to drip from the gameplay.
- It should be fun and not taken too seriously.

The restrictions are -

- Each Player represents a single 'Character'
- The game is played with cards only, no other materials should be needed
- Game play should be 45minutes max
- All Players must fight against all other players
- One Player Must get Killed
- The Killed Player must rejoin the game in a viable position to win the game.
- The gameplay should be felxible enough for various approaches to the game, i.e a free-for-all, or ganging up against one Player.
- The game should drip theme...
- Gameplay should not be predictable, but Players should be able to play tactically.
- The basic 'Way' the game is played should be the same, or similar throughout the whole game, both with the pirates fighting eachother, and the pirates fighting the cannibals.

Important to Keep -

- The above restrictions
- The Body Parts (aaaaarrrrr...)
- The individualised Characters
- The Pirates/Cannibal theme
- The Vicious Fighting
- Ability for characters to gain various items/actions

Can be Changed -

- Any of the card mechanics.
- The 'Three Phases' could be different, but I think it works best for the above restrictions/outline etc.
- Basically any of the actual 'gameplay'. The Theme/Outline/Restrictions as above are fairly stable, but I still want to develop smooth play mechanics that bring out the theme/gameplay effectively, playable and enjoyable. The play mechanics I have outlined already feel like a good starting point to me, and I have yet to do any basic cardplay playtesting, but I reckon I can work out some smooth card mechanics to incorporate that will fulfill the above outlines.

As I have not played too many card-based* games (apart from boardgames which include cards, i.e. War Of The Ring) for a long time, I am not too clued up with the subtleties current in the best games out there. And so advice/suggestions on cardplay mechanics would be a great help!

Thanks Johan, I know my original posting/notes are pretty scrambled, and posted a bit too early in the design, but its all starting to become a lot clearer!

*I lie, recently picked up a copy of Deluxe Illuminati, which is fun, but feels a bit mathematical, too many numbers...

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