# Simultaneous Dice Combat

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Anonymous

Are there any combat systems in existence, using dice, where there is NO attacker and NO defender, therefore also eliminating the sacred *morale* factor as a by product?

I can't come up with any off hand (well, ok, its more than off hand, I've researched and can't find even one)

I dont want to be guilty of the ultimate BGDF sin and think I came up with a unique concept of course... It just seems every dice vs. dice combat system I have uncovered has an attacker and a defender, with players taking turns as each.

and to clarify, I am not referring to a roll simultaneously and compare the highest result, I mean a simultaneous system where attacks and defends are scored/resolved by players at the same time on the same roll.

Kreitler
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Re: Simultaneous Dice Combat

Brahmulus wrote:
and to clarify, I am not referring to a roll simultaneously and compare the highest result, I mean a simultaneous system where attacks and defends are scored/resolved by players at the same time on the same roll.

I'm working on a remake of an old Apple II game called Empire, which is a dead simple multiplayer space colonization/combat game. I came up with a dice combat system that is simultaneous both in the sense that all players roll at once and in that attack and defense come from one roll.

The basic idea is simple: roll your dice. Keep sixes for defense. Every other number is a "hit", with the value determining which opponent you hit. Here are the details:

1) Every player involved in a battle gets 1 "normal" die per battle fleet, up to a maximum of 5.
2) Every player adds 1 "special defense" die.
3) All players roll all their dice.
4) For "normal" dice, players keep any sixes, then pass the remaining dice around the table. They give all ones to the player immediately on their left. They give twos to the second player on their left, and so on. If the number on any normal dice is equal to or greater than the number of players, the die "wraps around". For example, in a four player game, all fours go to the player immediately on the player's left, and fives go to the second player on the left (wrap around doesn't count the player handing out his dice -- he can never give a die to himself).
5) For "special defense" dice, players keep a six result for themselves, otherwise, they discard the die.
6) Each player subtracts off the number of '6' dices he holds from the number of other dice he was given from other players. He then destroys that number of his fleets.

I hope that's clearer than it sounds...

You might wonder why you need a "special defense" die. It turns out, using this system, that if two players with equal forces are locked in combat and there is no special defense die, they will always destroy each other.

I have tried this solitaire and it seems to work well. Granted, it's very simplistic and not appropriate for all games, but you might be able to adapt it into more complex games.

One side effect of the system is its "lopsidedness". Using 6 sided dice, unless you have 3 or 6 players, you'll tend to hit the people on your left more often than those on your right, so it's dangerous to sit to the left of someone with a large fleet. I haven't yet run a game of Empire to see how this affects a game long term.

I hope you'll let us know if you come up with something better.

Kreitler

Anonymous
Simultaneous Dice Combat

Interesting concept, and the 6's as blocks 1-5's as hits is in the same hemisphere as what I'm toying with I suppose... but my little project is a bit more head to head.

What I am toying with is customized dice with various hits and blocks (if you will)

No one is an attacker and no one is a defender, its not one players turn while the other player waits for his turn... it's simultaneous... you just roll and allocate what you scored as you see fit against the opponent.

I dont think its been done, so I'm getting all geeked up about it (sad isn't it)

Some of the initial problems are things like:

1)multi-player.... yikes... 4 people rolling at the same time... who compares what to who and so on....

2)re-roll power. this is a good one... if two players each roll a re-roll power simultaneously (remember there is no designated *attacker* or *defender* or *my turn* *your turn*)... it becomes sticky, because player A would base his desire to re-roll a certain one of his scores on if Player B re-rolls a certain one of his scores.

getting there though...

fun fun fun.

Again, also still wondering if there is any *published* game where dice results are compared simultaneously with players attacking and defending in the same hand.

Gogolski
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Simultaneous Dice Combat

This solution might be too simple and not fit your concept, but if players attack and defend simultaniously, you could rule that a player that attacks hard and heavy, defends less well.

Players roll their die and that is their attack (to hit) value. The defend roll is whatever the player needs to get to the maximum die value. (Player 1 rolls a d6 and gets a 4 to attack and automaticly a 2 to defend; Player 2 rolls a d6 and gets a 3 to attack and automaticly a 3 to defend.)

They could still have other modifiers that influence their roll, or they could even use different dice... (Player 1 rolls a d6 and gets a +4 to attack and automaticly a +2 to defend; Player 2 rolls a d10 and gets a +3 to attack and automaticly a +7 to defend.)

Cheese!
-Fred-

Phil_D
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Simultaneous Dice Combat

How about something like this (building upon Kreitlers idea).

All ships (units, soldiers, whatever!) are given a gunnery (fight, power, whatever) value. This represents the number of dice they roll in combat.

All dice are rolled simultaneously, with evens being used as "attack" points, and odds used as "defence" points (this puts the average balance slightly on the side off attack total). total these up and these give you your attack/defence for that round.

If this is too random or unweighted, then introduce a second stat to the ship, a "command" value. This represents the number of dice that ship may re-roll each turn if the player desires.

Both these can be complemented with "support" type effects, for example an "admiral" card could allow a fleet one extra command point per turn (to represent his orders to focus on attack etc).

After any desired re-rolls, players deduct the opponents total defence value from thier own total attack value, and vice versa, giving the simultaneous damage results to be inflicted on the opposing fleets.

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Alternatively, each player gets an attack/defend value, represnting the number of dice they can roll for each during combat (use different colours for each). During combat, both players roll thier dice. Place the results in ascending numerical order (no lottery gag intended, honest). An enemy attack dice can be cancelled by a defence dice of higher value. This ensures that even a vastly outgunned ship/fleet can cause damage to the enemy fleet by rolling 6's (which cant be blocked under this system). you could also integrate a re-roll system here as well.

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Anyway, thats just the first two methods that came off the top of my head!

#Phil

Anonymous
Simultaneous Dice Combat

Forgive my sparadic fogginess and lack of clarity in my posts, but luckily I'm not looking for a solution to or mechanic for resolving simultaneous combat (though the offered systems are quite nifty in their own right), in fact that is the one thing I have covered and am all amped up about.

Again I am utilizing unique custom 6 sided dice with block and hit icons (and a few other goodies) on the faces.

What I was wondering, in a world overun with *player one has initiative and attacks player 2* if there are any systems out there that utilize what I have achieved, so I can compare notes.

Beyond that, once I'm done gloating, I wouldnt mind discussing a few of the problematic issues I have uncovered with this simultaneous combat approach, as I mentioned above (multiplayer/rerolls).

So again, not asking for ideas/mechanics on how to achieve this (though that may be a fun thread on its own), as I already have that all dialed in, asking if anything like this already exists (published) anywhere...

Phil_D
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Simultaneous Dice Combat

Oh, sorry :oops:

I can't think of any off the top of my head, but then, I'm not all that well travelled!

#Phil

Kreitler
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Re: Simultaneous Dice Combat

Brahmulus wrote:
Are there any combat systems in existence, using dice, where there is NO attacker and NO defender, therefore also eliminating the sacred *morale* factor as a by product?

Sorry I spammed you with a system, Brahm. In my own defense, your original post asked if there was any in existence. :)

As far as published simultaneous attack/defense, I'm drawing a blank.

K.

Anonymous
Simultaneous Dice Combat

Its all good my brutha from anutha mutha... I was unclear as always.

Thanks for your confirmation above btw.