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Static encounters in a Combat based game

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NetWolf
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Joined: 12/31/1969

I started a thread a while ago about making a Gladiator game. While I currently have a great combat system for player vs. player combat, it's rather lousy against static encounters.

Essentially, each player has a hand of cards deal to them. On these cards there are three symbols: attack, defense, or combination. The combination card is used to amplify either an attack or defense card, or in desperate cases it can be used on its own. The goal is to score a 'hit' with a number that your opponent cannot defend against (Ties or higher numbers block). Once you score three hits you win the match. This works great for player vs. player combat because you have to choose how and when to throw certain combinations of cards, and at the same time anticipate what your opponent is going to do.

The problem is that static encounters (When the players are fighting in the arena, but not against each other) are very.....static. The encounters have their own stats and bonuses, but there's no real strategy involved. Right now, I have static encounters simply flipping over the top card on the deck, and using what ever number is revealed, without reguard to offense or defense.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Is there a way to make combat more interesting? Can anyone suggest a way to make encounters more dynamic rather than just "Hit hard and hit fast"?

Scurra
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Static encounters in a Combat based game

I ran into exactly this situation, and addressed it by making the static encounter... player vs player!
For reference, I was using a magic-based combat system that involved Spells and Items (which came in two different decks.)
The idea was that the player on the left of the active player* drew the encounter card. If a combat was involved, it told that player to set aside their "actual" hand (the one they were playing with for their character) and instead draw X spells and X items.
The combat was then resolved using the regular rules. Obviously it was different to a normal PvP encounter because the cards were more random, but otoh it meant that players could learn the strengths weaknesses of their opponents which made the static encounters more dangerous as the game went on.

*it wasn't always the player on the left who was the opponent - something else that it has in common with Starfarers. In fact, my system was developed independently but there are only so many variations you can use!)

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Static encounters in a Combat based game

fighting in the arena will never be the same as fighting an opponent,
so my suggestion is to not try to make it like that.

fighting in the arena can be for collecting good stuff.

Hedge-o-Matic
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Static encounters in a Combat based game

I, too, tend to use idle players to act as the brains of "NPC" encounters. While using a generally weaker combatant, the player who gets to play the "encounter foe" can be more forward and take more chances, since they risk nothing themselves. This is also a good way to let players use exotic abilities that would be too unbalancing if given to an actual player.

I like to have some other token move around the table, which designates who controls the next static encounter. Once you run an encounter, you pass the token to your left, and the next player runs the next encounter. If you hold the encounter on your own turn, you pass it to your right, so that after your turn, you get the counter back, to use yourself. Particular players ae known to be more effective in running these NPC's and so the tension increases when they hold the token. Good stuff!

This sort of thing is a great way to lessen downtime.

HyveMynd
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Static encounters in a Combat based game

As did Hedge-o-matic and Scurra, I had the idea to use the other players to control the NPC's. Except that my game used dice and not cards for the combat system. Basically whenever a player encountered a random monster (which was the only kind in my game), they chose another player to control that monster for the combat round. It wasn't anything outrageously complex, it was actually more like the neutral armies in Risk since the "non-playing player" just rolled some dice. All the moster's "chioces", like running away or using a special kind of attack were determined by a die roll before the actual combat roll.

I'm really liking the idea of passing a "monter control marker" around between the players. Even though there isn't any real "skill" involved in dice rolling, certain players my be seen as being "lucky".

And I agree with dete about the static vs. player battles. If both kinds of fights feel the same then the player vs. player battles will loose something in my opinion. They should feel somehow different, important, like they matter more. If you want to make the player/static battles more interesting you could try something like this. You could allow players to discard a useful or powerful card from their hand in order to effect a static battle that they aren't directly involved in. For example: Player A (who is the current leader) is fighting a static opponent. Player B chooses to discard one of his attack cards in the hopes of knocking Player A out of the lead.

If you give the players a choice as when best to use their cards, I think that will make the static battles a little more interesting.

dete
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Static encounters in a Combat based game

the game has to be fun.

strategy for player vs player, intense competitive battles where
win, loose, can be determind.

but when playing against random monsters it can be outlandish
and fun. Nothing would make me more upset than to die here.

so go ahead let me fight 500 goblins just for experience points,
or face 3 adult red dragons, why not? crazy stuff, and since this
fight is more for collecting stuff, and gaining cool stuff,
if I'm about to loose, let me pay off the game master to
not let me die.
I may eat up a lot of cash but I can do crazy stuff that I can't do
in player vs player.

NetWolf
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Static encounters in a Combat based game

I thought of something just now that would encourage the other players to actually WANT to play the static encounters: rewards. Of course it can't be as great an award as having their character actually fight in the arena, but you can award experience (Fame in this game) under the assumption that the characters are 'watching' other fights take place. You get to know your opponents better and learn how to adapt to certain maneuvers that way. This would work as a balanced game mechanic anyway since the whole goal is to kill the other players at the end of the game anyway!

TheReluctantGeneral
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Static encounters in a Combat based game

Here's an idea - give your static fighters a 'technique'. Their technique is represented by say 3-8 separate sequences of predetermined moves, with each sequence being say a few moves long. Each such sequence is recorded on a 'technique' card, with each move being listed one the card from top to bottom.

The player fighting the NPC begins by randomly selecting one face down NPC technique card and placing it in an opaque sleeve.

Then the fight begins.

(1) Player selects his attack.
(2) Player moves the sleeve containing the NPC moves down one notch to reveal NPC attack.
(3) Resolve outcome.
(4) Repeat from (1), unless NPC technique card is exhausted, in which case remove technique card from sleeve, return to NPC technique deck and shuffle. Select new technique card, place into sleeve then repeat from (1).

* powerful NPC opponents get more technique cards, making their likely form of attack harder to learn.
* players learn the techniques of NPC opponents just like they would in real life, but it's harder to predict the technique of powerful opponents, and easier to predict what unskilled opponents will do.
* no need to use idle players

HyveMynd
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Static encounters in a Combat based game

WOW General! That idea of the opaque card sleeve being used to reveal moves is a great one! I can see it being used to great effect in a "video-game fighter" styled card game. It even opens up the option for solo play, kind of you vs. the computer. Games not being played due to a lack of opponents is always at the forefront of my mind (since this happened to me often as a kid, and still does now) and you have just come up with a great solution.

And yes, I would agree that the powerful NPC's should have only a few moves on their "technique cards". That way, they change cards (and techniques) rather quickly, as opposed to weaker opponents who have more predictable moves. You could even color code the technique cards. Green = easy, Yellow = medium, Red = hard, and have the player draw a certain color of technique card based on the strength of the opponent. Or (still using the colored card theme), give the last move on a card a color, have the player draw that color of card when choosing the NPC's next technique. Easy opponents will most likely tell you to switch to other easy techniques. Hard techiniques lead to other hard techniques. But toss in a few techinique cards that switch you to a different level just to make the opponent that much more unpredictable.

Once again this idea simply blows my mind. I have never really been a fan of "figting" card games (excpet for Lunch Money, that I loved), but your "random technique generator" is just too good to pass up. Masked Wrestler card game, here we come!

TheReluctantGeneral
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Static encounters in a Combat based game

The pre-programmed fight sequence was actually inspired by two concepts, firstly the idea of a computer program (yes I do various types of programming for my day job), and by a computer game called corewar, in which players create very simple computer programs which run together on an abstract CPU with the aim of incapacitating the enemy program by sending it into an endless loop or making it jump to an illegal memory address. I think there was also a board game called battlebots that used these ideas of pre-programmed sequences.

A powerful extension to the pre-programmed technique idea used in corewar is the ability to add conditional statements into the sequence. For our example, this would mean something like , IF hit points drop below N OR fatigue climbs above M, SWITCH to technique C.

If this mechanic could be implemented for a card game (and I think that with some thought it could be) then rather than have two players slugging it out with the very familiar mechanic of simultaneous action selection, you can have players 'design' a fighters technique and then let him or her loose against an opponent designed by another player.

I think it makes for a fun game if some control is removed from the player, and moved into an upfront 'planning' stage. It would also be superb for tournament and online play.

Thinking about it, an pre-prepared action board may be better than cards if using this scheme. Cards could still be used to represent weapons, or possibly used by players to 'intervene' in the pre-programmed sequence when their fighter needs a hint.

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