Skip to Content
 

Wargames

8 replies [Last post]
CIDIC
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969

I would like to make a wargame that is simple but still has alot of strategy too it. I also would like to if possible eliminate completey random task resolution, IE. dice. Randomization is ok but i don't want alot left up to the dice. any examples of games like this? or ideas?

Rick-Holzgrafe
Rick-Holzgrafe's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/22/2008
Wargames

I've nearly completed a game of this type. I based mine on A Game of Thrones, which I can recommend as an excellent game. Battle in AGOT is non-random and mainly determined by troop strengths and a couple of other factors, but each player has a set of cards of varying strengths and can contribute one to each battle. Before the battle you can see all of your opponent's cards (and he can see yours), but then you each select a card secretly and show them simultaneously; then they are discarded. This means that battles have no random factors but are still risky and unpredictable.

AGOT is a great game but it is probably not what you'd call a "simple" game; there's a lot going on in it. The game I've been developing is called Brimstone and it's designed to be like AGOT but simpler and "lighter." I started with AGOT's combat system and simplified it by eliminating the cards, having only one kind of troop, and simplifying the command system. To retain a bit of uncertainty (since I took away the cards), each player in a battle can pay a secretly-chosen number of "stones" (money) to increase his combat strength. There's a limit on payment, so that an overwhelming force can't be defeated by an opposing overwhelming payment. And stones are in short supply so there's an incentive for a player to spend less than the limit. Play-testing has shown that in most battles the payments and battle outcome are predictable, but once in a while there's a surprise that keeps the game interesting.

Combat in AGOT is definitely more tense and interesting than in Brimstone. I am not surprised, since Christian Petersen is a vastly better game designer than I am, even when I'm stealing his ideas! But maybe this discussion will give you some ideas on what to do with your game.

You can read more about Brimstone in my journal here at BGDF, and you can read about A Game of Thrones at BoardGameGeek.

Anonymous
Wargames

Diplomacy is the ultimate in a simple wargame with no dice and strategy ta boot! If you haven't tried it, you absolutely must. The combat is deliciously simple (the bigger army wins) but the strategy is surprisingly deep - you can't win on your own, so negotiation is key, you only get a handful of armies and each territory can only have one in it. The moves happen simultaneously from secret orders that everyone writes down, so there are lots of surprises...

Rick-Holzgrafe
Rick-Holzgrafe's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/22/2008
Wargames

GameMonkey makes a very good point, and reminds me of a related point. How many players is your game for? Games that rely heavily on diplomacy (small 'd') and negotiation usually only work well with lots of players. Diplomacy (the game, with a big 'D') requires seven players. A Game of Thrones is best with five players (or six, with an expansion) and degrades in quality with four or three.

So if you're shooting for lots of players, then a simple combat system will encourage your players to negotiate, threaten, bribe, ally, and betray. If you want fewer players, that may not work as well, and of course won't work at all for a two-player head-to-head game.

Anonymous
Wargames

Yeah, Rick nailed that one. With two players negotiation is practically moot, with three it bites for the odd guy out, at four you can begin using diplomacy.

Actually, Diplomacy is still a decent game with two players, I played it once that way, of course there is no negotiation, but the simple battle system and the simultaneous, secret orders make it very interesting (and fast with only two people)

All that being said, I'm not sure CIDIC is even interested in negotiation as a mechanic, it is the strategy he is wondering about in his post, and I think Diplomacy is a good example of this even without negotiation, but you'd need to add more to it to add depth of strategy.

I'm having trouble thinking of another diceless game off the top of my head, but I know there are more out there, I remember seeing a couple in the wargame section of my local game store. Maybe a search on board game geek would be in order?

Hegemon
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Diceless Combat Results Options

There are many sorts of "diceless" Combat Results Tables (CRTs) that have been developed over the years. In Avalon Hill's Kingmaker you attack by moving into a defender's area and determine an odds ratio but draw a card to see if you win at those odds, i.e. the card says "2 to 1 or greater odds wins today." Some cards say "Bad Weather Today" and the attack does not occur/succeed - no matter what the odds.

In another AH game, Civilization, a player attacks by moving into an area with defenders and then both sides start alternating the removal of units - the weaker side first. The catch here is that as soon as the combined number of units equals the "resource support" level of the area, fighting stops and may thus leave both sides in the possession of the area.

Many years ago, Metagaming's Warpwar star ship sci-fi game had a true diceless CRT where each side shoose a "posture" (attack, dodge, retreat) and made a timing decision where these were compared on a matrix and the results read off.

From what I've seen, as a rule of thumb, the more tactical the scale of your wargame the more wild and unpredictable the result should be (i.e. perhaps dice should be the randamizing mechanism).

CIDIC
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Wargames

although all your diceless suggestions were great i didn't really mean that exreme of a change. the game can have dice in it thats fine. I just want the outcome to be based on tactics and the situation not dice. i like it were combat is pretty predictable and once in a while you are suprised. and I am mostly aiming for 2 player games, i rarely get many interested players at one time.

Hedge-o-Matic
Hedge-o-Matic's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/30/2008
Wargames

If meaningful prediction is what you're after, as a way to increase strategy, then dice whould work just fine. Don't rule out custome dice for this, if they're appropriate. But if raw numbers are what you're after, just remember that summing dice allows the bell curve, which acts as a huge predictor of success.

CIDIC
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Wargames

Now that i think about it, what i'm trying to create is a game that uses the combat system of memoir 44 but nothing else from memoir. I would also want more complexity and unity types. any ideas?

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut