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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

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Tricky
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Hilarious post officer....

No realy, I didn't want to react aggressively Ppwoo....if your ead my reaction you will see that I only wanted to defend my opnion that there is a possibility to some extend that a sense of fear can be emulated.
The !! at the end are from the Twilight Creations-game wich has alot of !! in the title, not an emotional repsonse on my account ;))

Yes, I think the best way to create a horror-game is to put on thing
above all: create a fun, action-packed, interesting game.
The evocation of fear defenitly comes second, but of course will be part of the deal. I thought "Malll of Horror" did best in combining these two.
It's certeinly not a game for everyone since it's voring-mechanic is something you eather love or hate, but it certainly re-creates some of the dillema's of a Zombie-movie. And it even includes a dumb screaming blonde. Don't you just love that :)

At this point I already want to thank everyone for your great feedback. It has been an interesting thread so far indeed filled to the brim with ideas.
It is now my task to mix them all into a game-system...phew.
My main concern is at this point not if it will feature intereting ideas but more in the line of: will it be accesible enough for the casual gamer.
Indeed this might be the cause of the rave about Zombies!! but I will try to combine it's instant playability (ahum) with some deeper elements to
actualy make the game more fun to play and re-play.
And with all this let's remember that "Puerto Rico" is still number 1 on BGG after all these years...a game that is defenitly on the more complex side of things. Wich proves that gamers aren't afraid of some deeper aspects to a game.

Let me end this little post with a little message towards all you amateur photographers:

I'm looking for some people who can help me gather digital pictures of certain elements for the game. What I mainly need are pieces of furniture photographed from a birds's eye perspective that will be photoshoped in the end and used in the tiles.
Some examples: a sofa, chairs, tables, cupboards, sink, bath, floortiles, trees (for the outside scenes)....everything you can think of that is found in a house.

Any help on this front will be greatly appreciated and will be thanked with a big thank you in the rules-booklet and of course, let's not forget, eternal fame. So all you photographers out there, mount your best lens and take a snap of your sofa and send it to: david.ausloos@pandora.be
A thousand thanks in advance. This material will enable me to make the game a creepy and realstic as humanly possible. You provide the pics, I will provide the photoshop-magic :)

Tricky
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Great ideas Discord....nice.
The civilian-idea is realy interesting.
The wound-card also, but I'm still thinking about my original damage-system were the location of your wound affects a certain ability and forms a modifier for movement/aiming...
It also enables to create a differenc between a bite in the neck (wich turns people into zombies) and a standard wound that can be healed by a medi-kit or nurse.

Tricky
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

I'm still thinking about to ways to handle zombie-movement:
Rendering it by the game itself: every zombie moves a set amount of spaces towards the nearest victim
or: a player being the zombie-master moving all the zombie-pawns?

The first has the advantage of rendering a lot of strtegic options for the human players, being able to predict to a certain extend how the zombies will move....the other one will make the movement less predictable and will render a more strategic action from the player activating the undead.

Any thought wich of these two might work best?
Or if someone knows another mechanic...shoot!

Gogolski
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Tricky wrote:
I'm still thinking about to ways to handle zombie-movement:
Rendering it by the game itself: every zombie moves a set amount of spaces towards the nearest victim
or: a player being the zombie-master moving all the zombie-pawns?
I think that if you want to capture the right zombie-movie-feel, you need to go for a zombie-AI.

The zombie moving to the nearest player, is the most obvious one. (While zombies eat brains, they are not capable of actually USING brains, as in smart-thinking...)
You can add randomness by rolling a die and have a slight chance to make the zombie go to the second nearest player, or make the zombie not notice at all.
Another thing is line of sight. The board/map/whatever should have loads of corners, small corridors, large pieces of furniture, vegetation,... These make for a short line of sight most of the time, which alows for zombies being there, without the players knowing.

Cheese.

nekrolog
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Trying to create horror in a boardgame is a lost cause... movies can inspire horror and fear, but boardgames can't. You can try for tension and frustration, which are possible in a boardgame.

You might look at a game called "Victoria Cross." It's the best zombie game out there, IMO. It's a block wargame about the battle of Rourke's Drift, where 100 British soldiers defended a small sandbag fortification against 4000 zulu warriors. During the battle, there were wounded British soldiers in a little hospital building, which the Zulus were constantly trying to burn down.

You'd probably have to play it to understand the correlation, but the essence is that a few people are defending a weak fortification from an unlimited number of weaker enemies that come in waves. Playing the British feels hopeless, as you watch your forces slowly dwindle, and as you lose ground little by little. There is a lot of tension involved... moreso than any zombie game I've played.

Ska_baron
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

I would actually disagree with those who think horror is an impossible objective for a board game. I again point to Betrayal at House on the Hill. It has lots of events/omens with flavor text in addition to game events. Also, when the haunt is revealed each side gets a book explaining their objectives - again with a cool backstory to get you in the mood to face whatever horror awaits. Maybe I'm just a HUGE sucker for theme (I am), but this game does the trick for me in the uneasy/terror dept. Granted I'm not actually jumping or tensing my guts, but I'll admit to a shiver down my spine...but I actually try to immerse myself in the game atmosphere, which is VERY well done (we'll leave discussion of implementation for later). Anyone else played Betrayal and feel the same? Different?

FastLearner
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

I agree, BaHotH does a great job with bringing on a horror feeling. If Arkham Horror had flavor text like that, it could bring a similar feeling.

-- Matthew

Tricky
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Thanks guys for pointing out a game that proves that a creepy fear-inducing feeling IS possible in a game. Indeed BAHOTH does the job and it's an interesting point that it does this using the oldest technique thinkable: storytelling. Maybe this is partly the key to a good horror-game. I'll never forget reading the introduction to the old GW-classic "Fury of Dracula"....feeling that I was playing a real story rather than a mechanical board-system. Flavor text is indeed the key to te rendering of a certain mood and reiding the waves of this mood mechanics can actualy highten this sense of unease.
Again, my ultimate goal is not to make the scariest game ever (that will
happen depending on if the text and artwork en mechanics work together
to create a creepy whole) but to make it an incredibly playable and fun game to play that creates a sort of team-feel...we against the enemy.
If I succeed in that aspect the rest is an extra.
But of course I will try to make that game, both visualy and mechanic-wise as tension-filled and creepy as humanly possible.
I have already some great visual ideas in my head waiting to be produced.

I finaly decided on the movement-mechanic for the zombies.
I think the best way to handle it is to have it not be played by a player but rendered like the movement in games like "aliens" and "Fearsome floors". That way there is more a sense of strategic possibilities for the survivors to outwit the zombies who are basicaly dumb and unable to anticipate on the tricks the survivors pull out to avoid direct contact.
But believe me, with this slight disadvantage from the zombies point of view it will still be hard to survive in the house since the hordes of the undead are rather overwhelming and the burst inside the house in such an unpredictable way that they always create a surprise for the seemingly safe player.

CRasterImage
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

...

Tricky
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Thanks for the link....thought I'm a bit hesistant to use these kind of programms because the result always has a bit of a generic look.
I think it's important that the tiles of this game look
very different from any game currently on the market, thus using a
commonly used programm is a bit risky.

I will try out the system however. Maybe I can use it for certain parts.
The graphic designer however that I am likes to work from scratch since
the control you have to make the look exactly like you want is often results in a more unique look.
Lightening however is a tough thing to do right.
Maybe this programm can help me with this aspect.

CRasterImage
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

...

Tricky
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

interesting....Watson...interesting indeed....

Ballad_Black
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Hey, as it is very visible I am new here. I like what is happening and I, as many others, have designed and still designing Zombie games. I have one that is fully functional, problem is: It's handwritten on paper and not in this PC.

Now, I might put the full file up later in time, but an idea for some more Character advancement in your game could be stats. The class idea is good(healer, fighter, etc), but leave classes to having their own abilities. The stats come into play and really affect game play in a more tense way.

Say you have three stats: HP, Move, and Inventory. Now, you give the players 15 points to put among these three stats. This makes for a more developed game without a ton of rules.

Inventory works rather simply, if the item or weapon takes 1 hand to use, it takes up one inventory slot. If it takes 2 hands, 2 slots. Ammo is also easy, every thirty shells use one slot, and every 15 shotgun shells uses 1 slot. Every day items can use up a single slot. From here you can make it to where, if the weapon or item is epuiped, it gives its inventory slots back. So, if you had 6 slots with a gun in one, your down to 5. Equip that gun and your back to 6. OR jsut keep it general, and anyhting on you takes up the slot. Sorry, ranted a bit there, ideas are flooding.

Move, well...This is how many squares you are able to move in a turn, and if using a Action Point system, 1 AP can equal your full move.

HP, this is where it can get different. In my game, I kept it simple. Zombies do one damage if they hit you, when your HP reaches zero, you die and turn into a zombie in the turns equal to your full HP.
You can also weave in a system to the cards that have been mentioned, you get bit...draw a card, you have this long.
OR, You get bit, roll dice equivalent to your HP amount, if it is higher than your current HP amount, you lose another HP point. The dice thing hasnt been in my head too long, so it's very rough. I personally like the card deal and my way of you just die after this much damage and return as a zombie after your HP Total in turns.

Sorry for the long post there.

Also, ideas for actions to spend points on.

Reloading
Move
Attack
Unjaming (Should take half your AP)
Search

You might want a Gun Jamming rulle, say they roll a 1 on the roll for their attacks. If you're using attack rolls. The one results in a auto miss, and the gun has a chance to jam, roll the die again and if you get a 1 or 2, the gun gets Jammed.
Gun jamming is always a bad thing in a zombie scenario.

Just my input, I like to ramble on, so I stopped myself here.

Julius
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

Just some random notes:

ZOMBIES
Zombies have three stages (represented by three different models):

3 = fully healthy = Model shows all appendages intact
2 = wounded = Model shows missing arm, broken leg
1 = almost gone = Model shows crawling torso on the ground

This number corresponds to HP (each hit drops it another category until it is removed) and movement (3 moves 3, 2 moves 2, 1 moves 1).

HUMANS
Humans move at 2. I prefer the 'fast zombie' movies, myself. Forget the slow, shambling undead. When a Zombie attacks a human, it that human is killed, and the zombie is healed one point. If the zombie is at full health (stage 3), then the human is turned into a zombie instead.

WEAPONS
Humans can use weapons. Ammo should not be set before hand... it should be 'unknown' (evil grin here). Each time a weapon is used, there is a chance (1 in 6) that the gun is out of ammo and must be discarded.

Some sample weapons:
Pistol: 1 damage, 5 range.
Rifle: 1 damage, 7 range.
Shotgun: 2 damage, 3 range... Two barrels: roll for ammo twice.
Flare Gun: No damage, 5 range... zombies chase flare as though it was a human.
Cricket Bat: 1 damage, Melee... doesn't take ammo
Chainsaw: 2 damage, Melee... requires ammo.

Ballad_Black
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

http://www.pm-production.nu/pmp/products/dead_walk_again/index.php

An older Zombie Game I found a while back, good ideas there.

And as for the zombie HP stages, yea. Good idea, but seems like it would turn into a burden later on in game play. In the game I made, your gun has a to hit roll, meaning this is the number on the die you need to get to hit. Anything that isnt a hit results in a useless shot. Seeing as how zombies dont mind being shot in the arm, cause it really doesnt affect them. A shot that hits, results in a head shot, and we all know what that means.
Rolls of ones are misses and have a Jam chance, see my previous post.

I mean, using the HP stages for zombies would put a bit more feel into the game, but it seems like it could be a lot of work.

dsavillian
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

I'm working on brainstorming a zombie game as well (who isn't? Zombies are great!). To address the "HP" issue, I've decided on an 'all or nothing' damage system.

When attacking basic zombies you have to deal enough damage to kill them in one blow. I then have 3 grades of zombies (green/yellow/red). Greens have low hp, reds have high hp. In this system, you don't have to keep track of individual zombie hp but if faced with a lot of 'red' zombies and crappy attacks, you will most certainly lose. So I'm still a little torn. (I might possibly build in a 'knock down' rule on partial damage to give players a fighting chance).

This system also allows for an easy 'mass damage' rule. If you have a weapon capable of multiple targets (read: grenade) you can divide that damage up between any targets.

Ballad_Black
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ZOMBIE Boardgame project HELP wanted!!!

I've learned that having a basic unit with different set healths doesnt really help much. When you have hordes of zombies, lets say just 35. Well, theres 35 with an assortment of different HPs, and if they are all the highest HP level, that's 105 different levels. Maybe it's just me, but it just sounds like too much.

In the way I posted, it's basically all or nothing. You hit to kill, or you don't much of anything.

Only time I incorperate a multi-level HP system is on Zombified players, Boss type enemies, and random annoyance enemies (Lickers or Hunters for RE fans). Then it's the same basic rule, with a twist, a hit does'nt kill, but does 1 point of damage to the enemy.

Might help to add that my Guns Have Rates of Fire, meaning multiple shots in a turn. Sure, sounds bad at first, but throw in a lack of ammo for the higher RoF guns and the shotgun rule is the most complex one I have.

Shotgun: As long as there is no range penalty, the shotgun automatically hits the target and two adjacent targets. If there is a range penalty, roll to hit. A sucessful roll knocks the target, and two adjacent targets, down.

My range penalties are basic also, if the target is outside the number of squares knwon as the guns range, you get a -1 to hit for each square past the maximum range.

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