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2 completly unrelated questions!

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Mon, 03/13/2006 - 16:43
AddleGuru
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Greetings,
I've been spending more time lately trying to understand the production end of gaming, since I feel that it gives you more of a sense of what you are designing from a different perspective.

Question 1. I've heard of this product from Arjowiggins called Playper. It sounds like it could be some pretty handy stuff, but I can't find anyone who sells it as well as no reviews.

Question 2. Is there a way to create tokens out of chipboard which you can "punch-out?" I am assuming you would use a die-cutter, but in my mind, when I think of a die-cutter, I think of it as cutting or folding it.

Thanks!
-AddleGuru

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Mon, 03/13/2006 - 23:02
#1
phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Re: 2 completly unrelated questions!

AddleGuru wrote:
Greetings,
I've been spending more time lately trying to understand the production end of gaming, since I feel that it gives you more of a sense of what you are designing from a different perspective.

Question 1. I've heard of this product from Arjowiggins called Playper. It sounds like it could be some pretty handy stuff, but I can't find anyone who sells it as well as no reviews.

Question 2. Is there a way to create tokens out of chipboard which you can "punch-out?" I am assuming you would use a die-cutter, but in my mind, when I think of a die-cutter, I think of it as cutting or folding it.

Thanks!
-AddleGuru

Just from reading Arjowiggins website, it appears playper is just their brand of paper designed specifically for board / card games. I don't see how it could help out the prototypist at all. It might be great to learn more about if you were planning to take your game to print, but as for casual prototyping needs, I don't see how it would help.

-Darke

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Mon, 03/13/2006 - 23:35
#2
AddleGuru
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Joined: 12/31/1969
2 completly unrelated questions!

The reason I brought up the Playper stuff, was to see if it would be a viable option for prototyping cards and to see if anyone has had any comments about it. I know there is different other card types out there, even protoparts has there own brand.

Thanks!
-AddleGuru

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Tue, 03/14/2006 - 00:35
#3
phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
2 completly unrelated questions!

AddleGuru wrote:
The reason I brought up the Playper stuff, was to see if it would be a viable option for prototyping cards and to see if anyone has had any comments about it. I know there is different other card types out there, even protoparts has there own brand.

Thanks!
-AddleGuru

Again, I don't think you understand. Playper is JUST a brand of paper. In comparison, think about a rubber company that made a special blend of rubber specifically for sports car tires. It may be great for auto manufacturers to put tires on their sports car that use this rubber, but for your average driver, it's still JUST rubber.

For example, say you are having a card game published. You might go to a printer and request that they print your cards on playper paper. Again, for the prototyping designer, it shouldn't even be on your radar for prototyping supplies.

Comparing it to the protoparts cards isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. The PP cards are perforated and you can practically print to them to produce card prototypes. Realistically, you could print your cards onto a ream of playper, but then all you have is very expensive cards printed on paper. You still need to cut them out and put them in sleeves, etc. Playper has no practical benefit for the prototyping designer. Also consider that Playper probably doesn't even come in small printer friendly sizes (i.e. letter, legal, ledger). Most likely it comes in huge rolls or on huge spools, which would be specifically useful for a printing company.

-Darke

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Tue, 03/14/2006 - 16:06
#4
FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
2 completly unrelated questions!

You are correct about die-cutting, that's exactly right. Die-cutting is basically a giant punch that is powered by a hydraulic or mechanical press, sometimes straight-down and sometimes on a roller.

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Tue, 03/14/2006 - 16:46
#5
AddleGuru
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Joined: 12/31/1969
2 completly unrelated questions!

FastLearner - Cool thanks for the input! Now that you answered that, I am still lost on one thing. Wargames are a good example of this, most of them back in the day had chipboard tokens, but they were somehow corrugated. This allowed you to not need any scissors, but rather being able knock them out by yourself. Any ideas how this is accomplished? Sorry Darkehorse, there was a misunderstanding, I apologize.

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Tue, 03/14/2006 - 18:17
#6
evilupine
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Joined: 09/04/2008
2 completly unrelated questions!

The die-cutter perforates the chip-board, making the chits "punchable", so that you can pop them out by hand. Corrugated cardboard is the type of stuff used for shipping boxes and generally not recommended for board game parts, it can kind of fall apart when you cut it into smallish pieces, it dents easily and can be more absorbent than chip-board.

I think that you would stay away from getting something die-cut for a prototype, it would be a LOT more expensive than cutting chits out by hand. I remember reading on the forums here about a rotary cutter or circular cutting tool of some kind that sounded like it would make cutting clean straight lines easier than using scissors. I have also seen inexpensive paper cutters at office supply stores and craft stores; however, these are usually not suitable for cutting card stock. You may not be asking about prototyping, but it is generally the first step in the production of a game.

There are plenty of other threads that cover home card production and token production as well. There is no "miracle cure" and unless you have expensive equipment, "production quality" (ex. bicycle playing card quality) doesn't seem possible. Here are some links related to self producing board game parts (if I have gone off on a tangent that does not deal directly with your questions, then I apologize):

http://www.wizwar.com/members/avatar/
http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3911&highli...
http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3898&highli...
http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3889&highli...
http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3838&highli...
http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3518&highli...
http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3424&highli...
http://www.bgdf.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3805&highli...

You might try searching for "production", "prototype", or "manufacturing" with the forum search function as well.
I hope this helps.

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Tue, 03/14/2006 - 20:30
#7
FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
2 completly unrelated questions!

Old wargame diecutting would cut to almost the corners of the little squares, leaving tiny bits that were uncut. You'd effectively tear these when punching it out.

Most such diecutting today involves super-sharp blades and relies on the pressure of the surrounding cardboard (and just barely not quite punching all the way through) to keep the chits in place.

As evilupine noted, corrugated is entirely different... I think you meant perforated. And that you can't die-cut for prototype purposes: a die can easily cost $1,000. Even simple dies costs hundreds of dollars.

-- Matthew

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Tue, 03/14/2006 - 20:55
#8
AddleGuru
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Joined: 12/31/1969
2 completly unrelated questions!

Great info Evilupine! I know, I am being vague, since I know there is a huge difference between prototyping and actual production... I've been doing this for many years and I am trying to break off and do my own thing now. Design was something I've been fairly good at and not having to worry too much on production, since that was never much of a concern. Thank you again Fast, with your insight as well. I am slowly grasping the manufacturing concepts, thanks to you guys!

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