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Die-cut production

12 replies [Last post]
Sat, 02/19/2005 - 18:17
Anonymous

I am intereted in making die-cut pieces, like the ones found in AH Squad Leader, and I have several questions.

I figure that I can make these parts using my inkjet printer and glossy paper, then gluing that to cardboard, and finally cutting the pieces out using a personal die-cut machine.

What I cannot figure out is what kind of cardboard to use. Looking at similar pieces in all my games, they appear to be made of some kind of dense cardboard. But it's not regular cardboard, and it's thicker than cardstock that I've seen.

What do you call this material (and where would you get it?)?

Also, it would be really cool if there were a printer that could print directly onto the cardboard. That would save most of the work. But as far as I can tell, there aren't any consumer-level inkjet printers that can handle really "thick" media (like 1/16"). I would really like to find that I was wrong on that point.

Regards.

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Sun, 02/20/2005 - 12:58
#1
Zzzzz
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Joined: 06/20/2008
Re: Die-cut production

Topos wrote:

What I cannot figure out is what kind of cardboard to use. Looking at similar pieces in all my games, they appear to be made of some kind of dense cardboard. But it's not regular cardboard, and it's thicker than cardstock that I've seen.

What do you call this material (and where would you get it?)?

Chipboard, mat board, greyboard are a few names for the thicker media you seek.

Topos wrote:

Also, it would be really cool if there were a printer that could print directly onto the cardboard. That would save most of the work. But as far as I can tell, there aren't any consumer-level inkjet printers that can handle really "thick" media (like 1/16"). I would really like to find that I was wrong on that point.

I have not seen a printer that can do this yet, that would be great! Only thought would be to attempt some type of iron on or jump into silk screening. Though I have heard that most of the Epson Stylus Pro printers ($1700 to $8000) caan print on mat board or other media up to 1.5mm cardboard/matboard/etc.

Hope this helps a little, btw I posted a couple links in another post about places to buy chipboard, mat board, etc here :

Mat Board, Boxes, bags and bunch'o'stuff

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Sun, 02/20/2005 - 13:46
#2
VeritasGames
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Re: Die-cut production

Zzzzz wrote:
Also, it would be really cool if there were a printer that could print directly onto the cardboard.

Actually, some of the wide format printer can print onto cardboard. Some do it outside of printing specs. Printing specs from companies like Xerox are things that Xerox will guarantee 999 times out of a 1000. However, if you are willing to go to 98 out of a 100 or something, then there are some Xerox wide format printers that print on super thick card stock that's approaching actual cardboard counters.

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Sun, 02/20/2005 - 13:54
#3
Zzzzz
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Re: Die-cut production

As I mentioned there are Epson's that might work, so there must be others. But I have never personally seen a cheap printer work on anything beyond 110#. I am sure if you have the money(couple thousand) you can get some type of printer to work.

VeritasGames wrote:
Zzzzz wrote:
Also, it would be really cool if there were a printer that could print directly onto the cardboard.

Actually, some of the wide format printer can print onto cardboard. Some do it outside of printing specs. Printing specs from companies like Xerox are things that Xerox will guarantee 999 times out of a 1000. However, if you are willing to go to 98 out of a 100 or something, then there are some Xerox wide format printers that print on super thick card stock that's approaching actual cardboard counters.

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Sun, 02/20/2005 - 14:35
#4
Anonymous
Re: Die-cut production

Thanks for all the great info. That answered all my questions.

And from what I can tell from those websites, if I could find a printer with a straight printpath, that prints on 1.5mm media, then I can print directly onto the board. That would be amazing!

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Sun, 02/20/2005 - 18:29
#5
Anonymous
Re: Die-cut production

I found the printer for 1.5mm posterboard you were talking about.

Now if I forego my vacation this year, then I can afford it. :)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&...

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Sun, 02/20/2005 - 23:12
#6
Hamumu
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Die-cut production

Only tangentially related to the topic, I see your link is for B&H Photo Video. I don't recommend ordering from them, because I got my Bravo CD Burner/Printer from them, and they sold me a used one as new. I think it was kind of a matter of it having been a return, but I was not happy to spend $1500 on a burner with a CD jammed into the space above the drive (nowhere harmful, but disconcerting), another "blank" CD (it's supposed to come with a couple blanks) burned full of classical music, and the color ink cartridge missing and a used black cartridge sitting in its box. I was mad. And I sent them an angry email... got back an autoreply that they were on vacation for 2 weeks or something. By the time the 2 weeks was up, I decided to forget it (they never replied to my email at all other than the autoreply), as it worked, and I had used it a bunch, but the general notion is this: boy, I don't like those guys.

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Mon, 02/21/2005 - 01:12
#7
twobob
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Die-cut production

Ok, sorry about this silly question but .....

what exactly do references to die-cut production mean?

(perhaps something for the BGDF 'wiki'!!)

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Mon, 02/21/2005 - 09:17
#8
Anonymous
Die-cut production

Thanks for the B&H warning. I've never dealt with them. By the way, you might be able to leave a post about them on sites that rate companies, like www.bizrate.com. It's a great place to warn others about bad experiences. If enough people leave bad ratings for a company, you can bet it will cut into their business/make them change their ways.

twobob wrote:
Ok, sorry about this silly question but .....

what exactly do references to die-cut production mean?

(perhaps something for the BGDF 'wiki'!!)

By "die-cut production" I meant the process of creating game pieces. Companies like Avalon Hill used massive and expensive die-cutting machines to make game pieces for their games. If you want to make game pieces like they made, you can either pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for one of those massive machines, or you can pay a company who owns one to make your game parts, or you can buy a "personal die-cut machine" (see links below).

By the way, as far as I can tell, if you pay a company to make die-cut game parts for you, you probably need to make hundreds, if not thousands of them at a times to be cost effective. Personally, I am not interested in make 500-1000 copies of my game designs. I just want to play around and have fun.

I recently contacted several companies that make personal die-cutting machines, and a lady at Ellison told me that they have a die for making wargame pieces. I've not see it yet though; she is supposed to send me the template for that die this week.

There are apparently several levels of personal die-cutting machines:

ELLISON
$70 Sizzix
$300 Prestige SpaceSaver
$400 Prestige Pro

ACCUCUT
$300 AccuCut Mark III
$375 AccuCut Mark IV
$500 AccuCut GrandMARK

And the wargame pieces die cost in the range of $100, she said.

Here are links to these machines:

ELLISON
http://www.ellison.com/shop/?p=product_detail&itemnum=38-0605

http://www.ellison.com/shop/?p=product_detail&itemnum=19356%20

http://www.ellison.com/shop/?p=product_detail&itemnum=19101

ACCUCUT
http://www.accucut.com/MARK_III_brRoller_Die_Cutting_Machine-p358c133-pa...?

http://www.accucut.com/MARK_IV_br_Roller_Die_Cutting_Machine-p277c132-pa...?

http://www.accucut.com/GrandeMARK_brRoller_Die_Cutting_System-p181c135-p...?

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Mon, 02/21/2005 - 10:00
#9
phpbbadmin
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Joined: 04/23/2013
Die-cut production

*marked for wiki fodder*

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Sat, 05/28/2005 - 02:47
#10
Anonymous
Ellison products for games

While browsing the Ellison website, I came across an activity they have for creating a game called "Sea Life". Check it out, it lists some decent dies for use with games: http://www.ellison.com/creativeideas/?p=detail&idea=4145

(This is my first post, btw)

Cheers,
Tim

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Sat, 05/28/2005 - 10:31
#11
Vassoul
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Die-cut production

Welcome Timbur!

For all of you peeps who are suffering with an xacto and metal ruler cutting out hexes, check this out: http://www.accucut.com/Layering_DieHexagons-p4438c108-path8,277,108.html?

I know it isn't exactly what I need, but very promising. If I plan on making more than one copy of my game (hundreds of hexes each copy), the $600-700 investment would be worth it (machine + die).

For all of you who have no idea how a personal die works, go to the link provided above by Topos (http://www.accucut.com/GrandeMARK_brRoller_Die_Cutting_System-p181c135-path1,135.html?) and check out the "Watch the Broadband Demo" link.

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Sat, 05/28/2005 - 14:37
#12
FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Die-cut production

FYI, an Ellison rep faxed an actual-size sillohuette of that playing card die (what it produces). The cards are very, very close to bridge-sized cards, 2.25" x 3.5".

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