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Selling game in a store

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Thu, 11/24/2005 - 22:55
ACG
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Hi! I've got two games: Dicey Digits (which is basically a bunch of dice and some rules) and Junkyard Wars (in prototype form). Dicey Digits has gotten to the point where a store nearby (the store where I invented it when I was fiddling around with a bunch of polyhedral dice they had out) is selling the rules.

Here's the question. What exactly should I be expecting the store to do? Right now, they're selling the rules for $5 and I get half the profit. The store supplies the dice. At this point, I've gotten 3 buyers. Ironically, I had originally intended the game as a competitive, multiplayer geek game, but the one version of the game which has sold is an extremely basic version with 7 dice to be played solitaire by children in order to teach them math -- a completely unexpected use model!

The game store owner thinks that my game has a better chance of taking off than two other dice games he's selling. He's been a great help, offering suggestions and so forth (he even testplayed the original geek version of Dicey Digits, and he's excited about the Junkyard Wars rules).

I'm kind of nervous about him selling rules without the dice. There are no contracts at all (though the rules say "all intellectual property rights reserved by me blah blah"), it's just very informal. I occasionally stop by and rummage through his dice to find sets of 7 dice (in the same color) for the basic version and put them in some velvet dice bags for him :).

Is a 50% split on the rules enough? Or should I be asking for more of the profits on the dice themselves (which I obviously didn't buy). There have even been cases where they sell rules but no dice, dice but no rules, etc.

Finally, I wonder whether I should buy bunches of dice and start selling the game in a second store down the street (a Barnes and Noble -- designed specifically so I don't compete with the first store).

Does this make sense?

Thanks in advance,

ACG

P.S. If Junkyard Wars takes off, I'm probably going to buy a bunch of d30's from Koplow -- a d30 would serve as a very useful work action counter because many of the operations take 24 (or 30) man-actions and we need something to keep track of them...who ever thought I'd be using d30's in a game?

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Fri, 11/25/2005 - 08:09
#1
jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Re: Selling game in a store

ACG wrote:

I'm kind of nervous about him selling rules without the dice. There are no contracts at all (though the rules say "all intellectual property rights reserved by me blah blah"), it's just very informal.

Let me see if I understand your concern. Let's say Joe buys the rules to your game, and the 7 dice it requires. Then Joe's 4 friends get hooked on the game, and come to the store and buy the 7 dice, but don't buy the rules, leaving you out in the cold since you only make money on the rules. Is that, roughly, what you're worried about?

This is certainly a dilemma of designing a game that can be played with standard components; indeed, a well-equipped RPG player, upon learning of your game, probably wouldn't even need to venture into the store to buy the dice in the first place. Such is the reality of the game you've created. Whether it's fair or not for people to play your game without paying you for the rules is unfortunately beside the point. But clearly, the more customized components a game includes, the more essential it becomes for it to be purchased to be played.

It seems you can at least get it on the dice-only sales by buying some velvet dice backs, getting them screenprinted with a snazzy "Dicey Digits" logo, and putting into them the 7 dice and the game rules. Sure, it will require you laying out some money, but this is another reality of trying to sell games. The advantage is that it gives you a product you can take to other stores. I don't think there's any reason not to go to Barnes and Noble, but I can't see them wanting to see a rulebook for a dice game. Add the dice and some nice packaging, though, and you've got something they might be willing to sell.

Quote:
Is a 50% split on the rules enough? Or should I be asking for more of the profits on the dice themselves (which I obviously didn't buy). There have even been cases where they sell rules but no dice, dice but no rules, etc.

I think 50% is pretty good, considering that the only risk you've assumed is the cost to print the rulebooks, so you're making $2.50 on every sale. That's pretty darn good! If one licenses a $30 game to a big publisher, one probably won't make that much money in royalties per game. I believe it's common for a store to buy a game at 50-60% of retail costs, so I think your arrangement is pretty reasonable. The guy is doing you a favor, and has thus far made only $7.50 off of your game, so it's not like he's exploiting you and getting rich. If the game starts flying off the shelves, perhaps ask for a bigger cut. Until then, I personally wouldn't risk losing the helpful relationship by trying to squeeze an extra 50 cents out of each sale. What you really need is sales volume, and to do that, you need to create exposure. He's helping you achieve that; I think it sounds like a good deal.

Just my opinion. Good luck!

-Jeff

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Fri, 11/25/2005 - 21:33
#2
larienna
larienna's picture
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Selling game in a store

There is also .PDF games that has somewhat has the same problem. If I buy a .pdf games, I can share the files with my friends and they won't have to pay for it. But then again, the game is available world wide. So instead of selling 1 copies to each player, you sell one copy to each friend group or area of the world. (Considered that nobody else distribute the files freely on the net).

So the fact that it is sold world wide compensate for the duplication between friends. Since your game has only rules, If you want, you could try to sell the rules on the net. There are many websites that host files and distribute the game for you. Their cut is from 15% to 25%. Most games there are sold from 1$ to 10$ US. So your game would fit perfectly there.

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Sat, 11/26/2005 - 20:06
#3
ACG
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Selling game in a store

It's not all standardized components. Although most of the dice are polyhedral D&D dice, there is what I call a hypercube (a d6 inside a d6) and a bunch of dice with mathematical operands on them. I haven't seen them anywhere other than this store.

ACG

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Sat, 11/26/2005 - 20:20
#4
jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Selling game in a store

ACG wrote:
It's not all standardized components. Although most of the dice are polyhedral D&D dice, there is what I call a hypercube (a d6 inside a d6) and a bunch of dice with mathematical operands on them. I haven't seen them anywhere other than this store.

They may have gotten these dice from http://www.koplowgames.com/. That company has a mind-boggling variety of dice. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure they don't sell to customers, which is too bad; I'm sure their products could spark a lot of designers' creativity!

Anyway, change my sentence to "This is certainly a dilemma of designing a game that can be played with components that your store is already selling separately", and the rest of the content of my remarks doesn't change much. If you want a piece of the action on the dice sales, the best bet seems to be to bundle the rules with the dice, in a nice little bag.

-Jeff

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Sat, 11/26/2005 - 20:56
#5
ACG
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Selling game in a store

That's quite possible. They've got some unusual dice there. They've got what I call a d/8 (1/8, 1/4, 3/8...1), a harmonic die (1, 1/2, 1/3...1/6) and so forth. I've actually looked at Koplow's site a lot -- their d24's could come in quite handy for Junkyard Wars. Koplow even has dice with x, x^2, x^3 and so forth.

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