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CGD1 Game Design Goals

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Tue, 08/05/2003 - 16:07
FastLearner
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We haven't really discussed what kind of game we're hoping to design here, something that's very, very important. This occurred to me when reading Jeff's post on the GDW.

In the process of collaboratively designing a game I think it's key that we're more-or-less trying to design the same kind of game. Without some kind of agreement we're going to be be making suggestions that make perfect sense to us but may seem insane to others. If we can come to some agreement here in discussion, great, and if not then perhaps yet another poll will be in order.

Here are some "axes" for consideration:

Game "Types"
German-style (Euro-style)
Beer & Pretzels
Family Game
Gamers' Game

Weight
Light, Quick "Filler"
Heavy-Duty Thinking

Play Style
Chaotic
Controlled

Theme Style
Goofy
Serious

I'm sure there are many more things to consider. What kind of game are y'all hoping to create?

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Tue, 08/05/2003 - 21:04
#1
Anonymous
CGD1 Game Design Goals

I think this is a very good point that should have (in hindesight) been the first poll for the project. Before any other game idea submissions.

But hey, we're here to hash out all these details right?

Personally I want something with some strategy, but not a lot of abstractness. Something sort of Euro-style, but a bit more straight forward in areas along the lines of a family game.

It has to be quick and easy

with a controlled play style.

and a goofy theme by far.

That's what personally interests me for this initial project.

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 02:52
#2
FastLearner
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

Yup, I agree, it would definitely have been better to do this first but I unfortunately only just realized it. :)

As for me, I'm for a German-style (multiple options but only one choice), mostly family-oriented (you don't need to love to game to play), fairly lightweight, somewhat chaotic, mostly serious and only somewhat goofy game.

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 12:04
#3
jwarrend
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

I don't think quick and heavy are necessarily exclusive. One of my favorite games is Web of Power which is light, but yet still has tons of challenging decisions.

As for theme, I don't generally care for goofy games, but I think that's because most "goofy" games generally put more emphasis on yuks then on gameplay. A good game that was fun and whimsical would be ok, but I don't think a game should be silly just for silliness' sake, or at least, that's not the kind of game I enjoy.

I like the German style approach in the sense that mechanics are chosen for simplicity more than simulation. For example, if Air Pirates gets chosen, I could see it going in the vastly differently directions of being a more "german" game with a few simple systems, or the "simulation" direction with tons of upgrades, table look-ups, combat resolution systems, etc. Personally, I prefer the former.

Obviously, majority opinion should rule, and I would weight my remarks somewhat less heavily than others, as I'll probably be less involved in the process than you guys will. But for my preferences, I would say:

Game type: German

Weight: Moderate -- not light, but not a brain burner

Play style: Controlled

Theme style: Doesn't have to be super serious, but shouldn't be goofy just for the sake of being goofy, either.

But I think this stuff depends very heavily on the chosen game. If it's "Racing Game", a more goofy approach, with lots of randomizing and chaotic elements would be the best bet to do something original, whereas if it were "huminitarian aid", obviously goofy would be totally inappropriate, although the game could still end up being light.

I think letting the theme guide the mechanics and style of the game is the best bet, although I agree that getting our preferences out on the table is a good idea.

-Jeff

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 14:44
#4
phpbbadmin
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My opinion

I'm off the opposite camp. I can't answer any of your questions until I know which game idea we are going to do. In other words, I might make a mad max style race game of the beer & pretzels type, while I might make the disaster aid relief game a family oriented eurostrategy game. See my point? Certain game subjects tend to lean more towards a specific style. Choose the game idea first, and then I can tell you how I'd like the style to be.

-Darke

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 16:57
#5
sedjtroll
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Re: My opinion

Darkehorse wrote:
I'm off the opposite camp. I can't answer any of your questions until I know which game idea we are going to do. In other words, I might make a mad max style race game of the beer & pretzels type, while I might make the disaster aid relief game a family oriented eurostrategy game. See my point? Certain game subjects tend to lean more towards a specific style. Choose the game idea first, and then I can tell you how I'd like the style to be.

-Darke

Word. What he said.

- Seth

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 17:45
#6
Anonymous
CGD1 Game Design Goals

I think for that's the case for this project as there are so many good ideas on the block.

But for the next one, we should concider getting a general idea for the type of game we want to design as a collective, and then propose ideas based around those core prerequisites.

At least it sounds good for structures sake. Who knows, maybe the way we're already doing it is fine.

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 18:02
#7
FastLearner
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

I guess it can work either way. If you don't specify the game type in advance then the ideas may end up all over the place, something that could be considered good or bad.

I think I prefer working out the type of game first so that when we're voting on game ideas we're choosing them for the same set of reasons. As it is now Designer 1 may vote for Game A as his/her first choice becuase s/he wants a goofy beer-n-pretzels game while Designer 2 might choose Game A because s/he wants a meaty gamer's game. In the end Game A is selected but for very different reasons. Then when we work on the actual design the two designers are at odds, where if everyone agreed in advance that it was a goofy beer-n-pretzels game then Designer 2 might have voted for a different game as being more ideally suited.

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 18:27
#8
sedjtroll
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

The problem is, it depends on what game we pick. I don't care too much what we end up with, although I'd prefer somethng family style to Euro or Beer & Pretzels. The important thing is that the theme match the intensity.

So we could start all over and talk about which type of game we want, then create a theme that matches it, but that doesn't make as much sense (which is likely why we all chimed in with themes before mechanics).

- Seth

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 18:37
#9
FastLearner
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

I certainly think it would be a very bad idea to start over, and certainly am not suggesting such. I'm suggesting this for next time.

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 18:41
#10
Anonymous
CGD1 Game Design Goals

FastLearner wrote:
I certainly think it would be a very bad idea to start over, and certainly am not suggesting such. I'm suggesting this for next time.

My sentiments exactly.

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 18:51
#11
Anonymous
CGD1 Game Design Goals

I suppose everybody works differently, as we can see here. I guess I generally come up with the concept, then, as I apply more to the game, I decide what type of feel it's best suited for, which often helps drive the nail home on the final design process. You work on the game and see which part of it is truly appealing, then emphasize it more in the final stages.
However, it couldn't hurt to discuss it a bit, at any rate, for our next project.

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 20:03
#12
sedjtroll
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

Krosse wrote:
However, it couldn't hurt to discuss it a bit, at any rate, for our next project.

I think we ought to take it one project at a time.

- Seth

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Wed, 08/06/2003 - 20:27
#13
FastLearner
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

I think critiquing and considering the process as we go through it is much better than trying to recall what worked and what didn't months later.

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Thu, 08/07/2003 - 06:02
#14
Scurra
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CGD1 Game Design Goals

It does seem sensible to discuss this idea now though - between deciding on the game theme and getting on with the actual design.
I realise that there has been a lot of discussion about some of the games already, but in a sense that was redundant since the initial stage was about pitching the idea, not getting into details.
Once the idea has been "sold", then we need to think about the style of game we want to design.

Indeed, there is possible scope for more than one eventual design here - some people might want to go off and do the "beer n pretzels" game, and others might want to do the heavy duty "German" game. Not that I'm suggesting that, but it will become apparent very quickly that different people will have very different ideas about what advantages and disadvantages different levels of complexity bring with them - some people think that six character attributes in an RPG is too many, others that it's not enough; I'm in the first camp but that doesn't mean the second camp is wrong.

FWIW, I'd like a 1hr game with a goofy-ish theme and enough random elements to prevent too much analysis paralysis. And no bloody auctions please :)

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Thu, 08/07/2003 - 07:43
#15
Anonymous
CGD1 Game Design Goals

Oh, hey, I wasn't suggesting that we discuss the next game concept now. I realize, after reading it, that's what it appears to say, but I meant that, before we begin the next project, we may want to discuss the feel first. I'm all for focusing on our current project.

"Do not focus on the harvest while sowing the seeds."

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