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Dungeon Crawler mechanic

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Haemmerroid
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Hey everybody,

A quickie; I was thinking of a Dungeon Crawler (theme not important) where players start on a set location, and the board around them builds as they move along new tiles. Pretty much like you would in a computer game. But I got to a problem which I'd like your view on. 'Discovering' the board as players move along the tiles, can be done in a couple of different ways.

First off, you can build the board of many flipped tiles, flipping them over when moved on. It this case however, the boundaries of the entire board are known beforehand, and there's a chance of the board making players run in circles they can't get out of.

Second, you can lay stacked tiles one by one as new areas are discovered. A huge downside here is that the choices players make no longer have impact. Making a left turn results in seeing the top tile, as does making a right turn. It simply doesn't matter anymore.

Are there any games that have found a solution? Can the 'discovering' part of dungeon crawling in board games actually be satisfying? I'd like to see a game (or a solution! i'll create the game myself then) where a game provides in an exciting journey where the board is different every time. Can we re-create a 'randomly produced' board as is done in some computer games, or at least mimic this?

Soulfinger
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Well, tile reveal maps are

Well, tile reveal maps are pretty well tread ground by now. Off-hand, I'm thinking Warhammer Quest, Claustrophobia, Dungeons and Dragons: Castle of Ravenloft, Descent, Dungeonquest, Room 25, Dungeon Twister, Mansions of Madness, Betrayal at House on the Hill . . . and so on. There are a lot, particularly if theme isn't an issue. Betrayal is generally regarded as one of the better ones in terms of what you are looking for.

Jarec
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Haemmerroid wrote:Second, you

Haemmerroid wrote:
Second, you can lay stacked tiles one by one as new areas are discovered. A huge downside here is that the choices players make no longer have impact. Making a left turn results in seeing the top tile, as does making a right turn. It simply doesn't matter anymore.

I don't feel this to be even a problem if no one's seen the randomized tiles. Or the problem is some sort of Schrödinger's cat type of situation.
The choice in this situation would be to take the easier way (not locked); covering more ground or coming to help a friend, if multiplayer; some sort of colder/hotter system could be perhaps implemented and so on.

kos
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Joined: 01/17/2011
Pre-placed tiles

Haemmerroid wrote:
Are there any games that have found a solution? Can the 'discovering' part of dungeon crawling in board games actually be satisfying?

One option would be to place tiles face down at each "open" edge of the map.

In reality this is no different from drawing a random tile when the player moves off the edge, but psychologically it is different because the left and right choices are "already there" so it feels like the player is making a choice (even though it's a fake choice).

The other upside is that it allows you to have abilities which peek at face down tiles, thus truly giving the players a choice.

The downside is that you need more tiles in the deck than if you only draw them when a player moves off the edge.

Regards,
kos

Orangebeard
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Joined: 10/13/2011
Haemmerroid wrote:Second, you

Haemmerroid wrote:
Second, you can lay stacked tiles one by one as new areas are discovered. A huge downside here is that the choices players make no longer have impact. Making a left turn results in seeing the top tile, as does making a right turn. It simply doesn't matter anymore.

True, but the board will vary depending on whether or not the players exhaust all possible branches on a tile or if they reveal a single tile at each possible branch point in the map before fully exploring a discovered tile.

Some games simply use a "game master" player to manage the map and exploration.

I have also seen games where the tiles are represented in a card deck and the deck is shuffled. Players still get the top card (which tells them which tile is next) whether they go left or right, but they have no way of knowing which tile it will be since all of the cards look identical in the deck.

roger
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revealing tiles

In my prototype, each player develops its own dungeon that later get invaded by the other players. One cannot invade its own dungeon. This way, the dungeon makes sense, has logic behind its design because a player thought of it, for example by protecting its heart room or by trying to add forks to divert the invaders to dead-ends. When a player places a tile, the other players do not see what it is because it is covered by a "mask" tile (another tile from storage that is flipped recto-verso, the verso being white). This way, one can only guess the general shape of the neighbor dungeon, not its exact content.
Of course, once done in reality, lifting each mask in order to do some dungeon action below is not practical, but it has advantages.

You could also pre-build 100 layouts of a dungeon (ask 4 players to design 25 layout secretly) then pick one at random, so that nobody would know the layout for the first half of the game. Sooner or later the designer would recognize his/her own design but not at first. Once the designer recognizes its design, he can keep quiet to let the other players enjoy the surprise and discovery feeling.

I Will Never Gr...
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kos wrote:Haemmerroid

kos wrote:
Haemmerroid wrote:
Are there any games that have found a solution? Can the 'discovering' part of dungeon crawling in board games actually be satisfying?

One option would be to place tiles face down at each "open" edge of the map.

In reality this is no different from drawing a random tile when the player moves off the edge, but psychologically it is different because the left and right choices are "already there" so it feels like the player is making a choice (even though it's a fake choice).

The other upside is that it allows you to have abilities which peek at face down tiles, thus truly giving the players a choice.

The downside is that you need more tiles in the deck than if you only draw them when a player moves off the edge.

Regards,
kos

This is how I dealt with the issue for Into the Black: Boarding Party.

You can always "see" 3 corridor tiles ahead of any player, and those tiles may make turns (left/right), T intersections, X intersections, may or may not have 1-2 doorways into rooms which remain hidden until entered, etc.

It allows a choice, to some extent, even though most of it is based off top of the deck layout still (players can choose which corridors to extend based on what was drawn from the deck, but while it feels like choice it's still random).

Certain players and/or equipment abilities allow peaking at tiles (in the deck or on the board) and/or rearranging them and re-placing them into the deck as well.

I felt it the best solution to the ever expanding tile laying dungeon-esque style board.

Lowenhigh
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So much of “discovery” is

So much of “discovery” is thematic.

I have a fun idea for a dungeon crawl, but revealing tiles isn’t enough on its own. If you want the exploration of the map itself to be a hilight, you really need to add sections of unexplored “mystery spaces” or something similar.

I always liked the idea of what happens in Caverna, where tiles build on top of each other and modify everything underneath. I just have a hard time getting that to work with my dungeon crawl in development.

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