Skip to Content
 

How Did you Do It?

31 replies [Last post]
hoduken
Offline
Joined: 10/03/2008

Let me first introduce myself to the forums with a huge "thank goodness you guys exist"

Ever since I was a little kid I have loved making games, when I got older it didn't ever leave my system. Today I’m a poor college student and an upcoming game designer. I’ve worked in the game industry for three and a half years and have seen companies come and go. Notably though, I notice the ones that succeeded in making an awesome product. I own a ridiculous amount of games (For educational reasons of course) and have played and taught people how to play many games.

I have a multitude of games already designed and original (at least legal to make.) But most of these were done in high school and need to be redone to really shine. Now that im in college and have a full time job i have little time to devote to making games. I dont want that to stop me though, I dont want to get into a rut where im just hoping I did that thing in life that would have made me happy and now instead work in a quibicle from 9 to 5 fixing computers.

I really just have one question for all you game designers out there. How did you do it?

I mean, did you all have full time jobs and just work on the thing as a side project until it was done? Were you already financially stable and didn't need a job, thus being able to devote your full time towards the anima project? Did you have a devoted staff of unpaid employees to do your bidding? Or did you take a massive loan, quite your jobs, and hope for the best?

One day I will make games for a living; nothing will stop me from making amazing games for others to enjoy around the world. But until then I’m just trying to educate myself.

So Board Game Designers... how did you do it?

dnjkirk
dnjkirk's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/22/2008
Mostly through lack of sleep

I mainly gain my time by taking it away from sleep. You believe that you have no time now? Wait until you get married! You believe that married life is busy? Wait until you have kids! You think one kid is a handful? Try two!

Now, if you focus, you'll realise how much time you actually have, but are not using effectively. I had to lose all my free time (now being a married dad with two kids and a full-time job that is more of a lifestyle) before I realised how much time I had.

So, the sad fact: you're loaded with free time, you just won't realise it or cherish it until it's gone!

The Ghost of Christmas Future has spoken!

s2alexan
Offline
Joined: 10/25/2008
Time is everywhere...

There are only a handful of designers that can make a living off designing games. For everyone else, it's a hobby - evenings, weekends, holidays, any chance you get.

I have two young kids who I spend a lot of time with, a (more than) full time job, and a wonderful wife who consumes my time as well. I've found a few good ways to make time for designing:

1. I don't watch TV, and rarely watch movies, and try my hardest to keep net surfing under control (even if it's about games) :)
2. I keep the radio off in the car (a GREAT time to think and work out problems)
3. While exercising (at the gym, or running), I just work out game problems - I don't listen to music
4. I have a little notebook and work on game problems if I'm waiting in line, or stuck somewhere.
5. I get a lot of sleep, and exercise. Since games are all about creativity, the better my brain works, the faster I design them.
6. I spend some lunch hours at work on occasional game design tasks
7. As dnjkirk said, everyone usually has lots of free time, you just have to find out where it goes.

coco
Offline
Joined: 07/27/2008
I agree

s2alexan wrote:

1. I don't watch TV

This applies to everything in life. I totally agree.

Just to add one thing to what you guys have said: keep your brain constantly in game-creation auto-pilot. I think about games while sleeping, working, eating, walking,... Like a brain screen-saver.

No joke. A few days ago I spent more than half an hour trying to park and I designed a game about parking meanwhile!

The game is terrible.

;-)

Néstor

Brayan33135
Brayan33135's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/17/2008
hi

In the frist places seems easy, but is realy hard, i have more than one year making my frist game.....and it is not realy yet lolzzz, since now i need to find someone or someting cheap to make the pices...

benshelmars
benshelmars's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/03/2008
focus

For me its about focus, I too work full time but with little pay, am starting a business teaching Level Design, have a family full of drama. I also watch TV and sometimes a movie, read books and magazines, gaze at the stars, work on my Masters and do lots of other things. For me Game Design is all of these things and more. There is no subject that can't be turned into a game or studied for game purposes. Its not about finding the time, its about using time.
Oh I forgot to mention I sleep too:)

kiwasabi
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2008
Great Topic

This is a great topic and there have been tons of insightful replies.

I am in the game industry currently as a Playtester, not a Game Designer (yet). However, I plan on pitching a game to the company I work for in the near future. I have a design doc put together (around 15 pages) and it's pretty good overall. I was able to find about 4 3D artists through craigslist who are willing to help me put together a 3d animation mock-up of what the game will look like, so that will be a huge help in trying to get my game picked up.

As far as getting a job in game design, it's all about persistence and dedication. As I'm sure you know, game design is the holy grail of jobs. Thus, it's one of the most competitive fields that exists. Essentially you either need to have lots of experience or you need to have a miracle (VERY rarely happens) in order to become a game designer. There are two ways that I think are the best in terms of becoming a game designer: get a job at a game company as a producer or QA, or work your ass off at getting good at level design in a specific engine (unreal, source, crytek, etc) and then apply at the studios that use that tool. It takes a long time to move up to a designer if you start out in QA or production, but if you get into level design you're a designer from the start (though it's a lower level of design).

Since you're already working at a game company (unless I misread) as a computer technician, you should tell the head producer that your aspiration is to become a game designer and ask him what things you can do to move up. So long as the company likes you and knows that you're a creative problem-solver, they'll probably work with you.

Otherwise, as far as preparing to become a game designer, it's all about keeping yourself inspired. Everybody always says that game design is multi-disciplinary, which is absolutely true. You need to know art, you need to know math and logic, you need to know risk analysis in order to decide if a feature is going to be too risky to get right, you need to be good at communicating, and you of course need to be a good creative problem-solver. Read about whatever interests you in your free time. For me it has been reading about the human brain. Reading about the human brain has allowed me to uncover a lot of hidden insights regarding good game design. Reading about any subject will allow you to do the same just because it keeps your brain in shape and allows it to make unique connections it never would've made otherwise (which is a long-winded description of *ideas*). I hope this helps.

-Adam

kodarr
Offline
Joined: 08/04/2008
My hope is to design a game

My hope is to design a game that I've been working on for 2 yrs w/ full art and completly working mechanics. Then go to game conventions and sit with it set up and have people try it out. If it gets a good enough following hoping a designer may pick it up. Getting your name out there is the way I've always thought of getting into the industry

seo
seo's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
kiwasabi wrote:There are two

kiwasabi wrote:
There are two ways that I think are the best in terms of becoming a game designer: get a job at a game company as a producer or QA, or work your ass off at getting good at level design in a specific engine (unreal, source, crytek, etc) and then apply at the studios that use that tool. It takes a long time to move up to a designer if you start out in QA or production, but if you get into level design you're a designer from the start (though it's a lower level of design).

Since you're already working at a game company (unless I misread) as a computer technician, you should tell the head producer that your aspiration is to become a game designer and ask him what things you can do to move up.

Do you realize we're talking about BOARDGAMES, not computer games? :-)

larienna
larienna's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
optimizing time

First we are talking of board game design, not of video game design.

I also lack of time to do my design. I always open to new alternatives to save time. I tried reading a bout about how to oranize time too. Still in orver all, I have to cut down many thing to have more time for game design.

Quote:

1. I don't watch TV, and rarely watch movies, and try my hardest to keep net surfing under control (even if it's about games) :)

Same thing for me. I also don't have the time to play some video games I wanted to play. This is why I focus on short term games. TV is bad, it's a passive activity that does not make you think. Internet is another problem. I have some stuuf to do on the net and it rapidly consume my time.

Quote:

4. I have a little notebook and work on game problems if I'm waiting in line, or stuck somewhere.

Writting in the bus or while waiting is also something I try to do. I want to get some sort of artist box that can contains various sheet of papers and which is had enought to write on it. The goal is to carry my files and write anywhere I want.

Quote:

5. I get a lot of sleep, and exercise. Since games are all about creativity, the better my brain works, the faster I design them.

I have sleeping problems, so I cannot et this one.

Quote:

6. I spend some lunch hours at work on occasional game design tasks

From experience, I tried it, and I seem to have some problems getting into the design. So I rather take 30 min lunch and get an extra 30 min I can stick to a longer activity.

Quote:

7. As dnjkirk said, everyone usually has lots of free time, you just have to find out where it goes.

Sure there are ways to optimize time, but I also need to put a mark on many things I want to do because I won't have enough time to do it. One of my problem is that I am too much polyvalent, I ca do so many things (I could be a jack of all trades). For example, I completely abandonned computer programming to have more time for other things. Board game design have replaced this which gives e less time for manual activities like cooking, sewing and painting.

Still, even by optimizing all the minutes you have, you still need some time area for prototype production and playtesting.

Any other tips for optimizing time are welcomed.

Katherine
Offline
Joined: 07/24/2008
I carry a pcket recorder

I carry a pcket recorder "talk" any ideas I have into it whilst doing doing jobs around the house or surfing the web. Saves time and paper.

benshelmars
benshelmars's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/03/2008
seo wrote: Do you realize

seo wrote:

Do you realize we're talking about BOARDGAMES, not computer games? :-)

I do hope we aren't showing prejudice against other mediums for gaming, many CG are prototyped before a single line of code or level are even assembled, including FPS. And the most common method of prototyping is with boards and miniatures.

seo
seo's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
benshelmars wrote:seo

benshelmars wrote:
seo wrote:

Do you realize we're talking about BOARDGAMES, not computer games? :-)

I do hope we aren't showing prejudice against other mediums for gaming, many CG are prototyped before a single line of code or level are even assembled, including FPS. And the most common method of prototyping is with boards and miniatures.

No prejudice at all. It's just that I don't think that "getting good at level design in a specific engine (unreal, source, crytek, etc)" is necessarily good advice for a wannabe boardgame designer, though it probably is good advice if you want to design computer games.

Also, I think kiwasabi is well aware of this site focus on boardgames, it's not as if this were his first post and he were confused about that. So my intention was not to show any prejudice or anything like that, nor to grumble, just to try to keep the discussion on boardgame design rather than computer game design specific issues. While both are "game design" industries, I think computer game design is closer to movie making than to boardgame design when it comes to how to turn game design into a job, not just a hobby.

benshelmars
benshelmars's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/03/2008
Point taken

Point taken, I follow your reasoning.

kiwasabi
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2008
Hoduken, do you have any

Hoduken, do you have any interest in becoming a video game designer? Or are you only interested in board game design?

-Adam

hoduken
Offline
Joined: 10/03/2008
I want to thank everyone who

I want to thank everyone who has posted thus far, Its a real help and inspiration.

kiwasabi I want to become a boardgame designer. Dont get me wrong, I love video games, and I did work in the video game industry for three years; however, my true desire is to make board games.

Hmmm, it looks like i better take advantage of the time i have huh? Our first boardgame will be done sometime Q1 of next year. We will have a website with art and what not; ill make sure to post it and get some feedback.

kiwasabi
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2008
Ok fair enough, I was reading

Ok fair enough, I was reading between the lines a bit and misinterpreted. Sorry everybody for spreading my video game design blasphemy :-\. I know that I have violated the second commandment of bgdf: Thou shalt not talk about video game design.

(Just in case anybody was wondering, the first commandment of bgdf is: Don't talk about bgdf)

-Adam

aiongold
Offline
Joined: 11/24/2008
Point taken

benshelmars wrote:
Point taken, I follow your reasoning.

Me too

Outside Lime
Outside Lime's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/08/2008
s2alexan wrote: 1. I don't

s2alexan wrote:

1. I don't watch TV, and rarely watch movies, and try my hardest to keep net surfing under control (even if it's about games) :)
2. I keep the radio off in the car (a GREAT time to think and work out problems)
3. While exercising (at the gym, or running), I just work out game problems - I don't listen to music
4. I have a little notebook and work on game problems if I'm waiting in line, or stuck somewhere.
5. I get a lot of sleep, and exercise. Since games are all about creativity, the better my brain works, the faster I design them.
6. I spend some lunch hours at work on occasional game design tasks
7. As dnjkirk said, everyone usually has lots of free time, you just have to find out where it goes.

I agree with almost everything listed here, except #1.

Not watching TV and movies is definitely a great way to create plenty of free time. Most people spend several hours a day plopped on the couch staring straight ahead, and that time could certainly be used for less-passive activities. However I wouldn't cut it out entirely. All media is a source of inspiration for game design. Books, newspapers, movies, television, all have elements of theme and interaction that can trigger an idea in you or get you interested in a theme. TV is unlikely to suggest a game mechanic to you, but it could do well to inspire a scenario or trigger an idea for player motivation.

~Josh

clearclaw
clearclaw's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
Read a book

If you feel you really need additional external inputs: read a book. Read two. Read three. Consume your local library. TV is neither necessary or productive.

Outside Lime
Outside Lime's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/08/2008
Read a book AND watch a show.

Yes it is.

~Josh

s2alexan
Offline
Joined: 10/25/2008
My success rate has been low

Outside Lime wrote:
s2alexan wrote:

1. I don't watch TV, and rarely watch movies, and try my hardest to keep net surfing under control (even if it's about games) :)
2. I keep the radio off in the car (a GREAT time to think and work out problems)
3. While exercising (at the gym, or running), I just work out game problems - I don't listen to music
4. I have a little notebook and work on game problems if I'm waiting in line, or stuck somewhere.
5. I get a lot of sleep, and exercise. Since games are all about creativity, the better my brain works, the faster I design them.
6. I spend some lunch hours at work on occasional game design tasks
7. As dnjkirk said, everyone usually has lots of free time, you just have to find out where it goes.

I agree with almost everything listed here, except #1.

Not watching TV and movies is definitely a great way to create plenty of free time. Most people spend several hours a day plopped on the couch staring straight ahead, and that time could certainly be used for less-passive activities. However I wouldn't cut it out entirely. All media is a source of inspiration for game design. Books, newspapers, movies, television, all have elements of theme and interaction that can trigger an idea in you or get you interested in a theme. TV is unlikely to suggest a game mechanic to you, but it could do well to inspire a scenario or trigger an idea for player motivation.

~Josh

Actually, I do somewhat agree that a variety of different activities and experiences are worthwhile inspiration for games. I made a game called "Reality TV", where you combined cards with words on them to create hilarious sounding reality TV shows, which you then pitched to different studios and collected ratings. It was terrible :)

I also made a game called "Studio City", about making crappy B-movies just to turn a profit. It was just rejected from Hippodice. :)

So my movies-and-TV-inspired games haven't been too much of a success.

I just find TV drains my inspiration every time I turn it on, but the occasional exposure probably won't hurt, especially if it's a cool nature documentary (which is how Reef Encounter was created).

Stefan

kungfugeek
kungfugeek's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/10/2008
clearclaw wrote:If you feel

clearclaw wrote:
If you feel you really need additional external inputs: read a book. Read two. Read three. Consume your local library. TV is neither necessary or productive.

But if you never watch the movie how will you know what happens in the book? :-)

I do find that tedious prototype building goes a little bit quicker when I'm in front of the TV, though....

Pinebars
Pinebars's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/13/2008
movies and games

I think movies in particular could be very constructive for design or at least as ideas for themes. For me, designing board games is about giving an the player an opportunity to participate in an experience, which is the same goal of good movies. A good movie engages both your senses and your mind, and good board game does the same. A good movie allows you to discover a great story; a good game allows you to become part of the story yourself--to encounter it at a fundamental, decision-making level.

So I think movies and games have a lot in common and that movies could be inspiring for design, but at the same time most movies require a lot of focus that could otherwise be put to use solving problems.

Willi B
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
Excluding things = more time, perhaps missed inspiration?

Yes, TV saps time... but can it inspire? Surely there are people getting ideas from TV, radio, and other time wasting activities. Books are great, but sometimes having a faster view on things can save time instead of wasting it.

Also, you have to keep in mind that people designing board games have varying goals... surely if you are pitching to the big boys or the kids market, you might want to watch a commercial on how they are marketing their games. Most companies in the big arena want designers to consider the marketing in their designs.

Maybe a person has a goal of pushing a game through to the Game Show Network... surely they should be familiar with what that network already produces.

How many people get a game idea from watching the History Channel or Discovery? Did the HBO series "John Adams" inspire the new game Founding Fathers? Sure, these things already existed in other forms (books, etc.), but it might have not only created an idea, but added an additional MARKET VALUE to a game that might not have existed.

Certainly a romantically-themed vampire game would be having an added stock value right now because of Twilight and True Blood. Most of the games we design will not tie in to a trend or hot topic.... but I certainly wouldn't turn down marrying my design with a popular concept that worked for the design. Most won't change my designs, but some will. Largely, games take too long to bring to market to tie to a trend in the time of its "hotness", so the timing will rarely be perfect for these things to happen... I just think having a pulse on the world means having a pulse on the market.

larienna
larienna's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
Using artist box

I recently bought for 13 buck an plastic artist box at "omer de serre" (in montreal). It's is an 1 inch thick and it opens like a book. You can store 8-1/2x11" sheets and it's large enough to hold folders.

The good part is that the plastic is hard and you can write on it. So it is somewhat easy to carry and you can bring it anywhere to write your ideas.

I hope it will help speed up my design.

kj
kj's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/24/2008
TV vs. Books

In theory, there is no creative difference between watching TV and reading a book.

I'll grant that is not usually true in practice. :)

InvisibleJon
InvisibleJon's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/27/2008
A very long answer...

Short Summary:
I'm not there yet, but I've licensed two games. I did it by making one game a month for over 8 years, slowly practicing and building a fan base and researching the industry. Making contacts through organizations like GAMA and the GPA was critical and invaluable to my success.

Not watching TV dramatically increased my productivity. I would not be nearly as productive if I watched TV at all.

Input from other game-related industries (video game, etc.) is valuable and useful.

Long Answer:

hoduken wrote:
I really just have one question for all you game designers out there. How did you do it?

I mean, did you all have full time jobs and just work on the thing as a side project until it was done? Were you already financially stable and didn't need a job, thus being able to devote your full time towards the anima project? Did you have a devoted staff of unpaid employees to do your bidding? Or did you take a massive loan, quite your jobs, and hope for the best?

On the question of, "How did you do it?":
I am not published yet. I've licensed (and been paid advances for) two games so far, with fair to good prospects for two more. I've taken the long, slow road. My original intent in January of 2000 was to use the Invisible City website to build an online fan base by releasing an original print-and-play for free download every month, then self-publish games and become a game publisher. I started releasing one game every month, and began to research what it takes to self-publish a game. I went to the GAMA Trade Show in 2000, 2001, and 2002. The research I did during this time convinced me that the money needed to self-publish was greater than I was comfortable risking – especially given the work needed to have a moderate chance of breaking even (not even profiting!).

In mid-2002, I gave up on the idea of self-publishing. However, designing one game every month had become a habit, and I've kept it up to this day (I did take a break in June/July of 2008, after the 100th free game). While doing game design, I worked full-time until late 2006, when I returned to school full-time. Game design has always been a hobby for me.

From mid-2002 to 2006-ish, I had no clear goal with the game of the month project. I wasn't thinking about making commercially viable material. I was just making games. In Summer of '06, I got a contract job to make games to teach math concepts to K, 1st, 2nd, and 6th graders. I got that job entirely on the strength of my online portfolio of games and the work ethic (and rapid prototyping) that portfolio demonstrated. That contract job landed me additional contract jobs for the same company, some of which involved additional game-like design.

In 2007, I decided to take my most commercially viable designs, spruce them up, and start shopping them around to publishers. Some of these games had been featured as the Invisible City Game of the Month. I had download statistics for these games, and could provide concrete data about their popularity. I had (and still have) a Game of the Month email listserv, so I have a stable fan base that I can also provide concrete data about. Other games had not been featured as Game of the Month, but had been extensively play tested and refined. I had detailed part lists and estimates for how much they'd cost to produce (from my earlier aspirations).

Lunch date with a retailer: I arranged a lunch (my treat, of course) with David Wheeler, the owner of Dragon's Lair Games and Comics here in Austin, TX. Before the meeting, I wrote up descriptions and estimated price points for my most viable games and sent them to him in advance. At the lunch, I asked him what he liked and disliked. I asked him about where the market was, is, and where he thought it was moving. I tried to figure out what made a game appealing for him, as a retailer, to carry. At the end, I had some valuable recommendations and a sorted list of about 20+ games. The games at the top of the list were the ones that David fund appealing and I felt would be easiest to have ready to sell.

Self-Promotion: I used the BGDF and Google to find publishers who accepted unsolicited submissions. I gathered every URL I could find, then ordered them from the ones I found most desirable to work with, to least. I analyzed the themes and styles of the games produced by the top 5 companies in my list, then went through my list of games, picking out 4 to 6 games that fit each company. I then followed the contact instructions for each company and wrote a letter of introduction and intent to submit game design proposals. If I recall correctly, I got three, "Thanks, but not at this time," responses and two, "Sure, send stuff in," responses. I followed those up with prototypes and got very nice feedback and rejection letters. Then, through a GAMA / GTS contact I'd kept warm, I discovered that another company was eager for and accepting prototypes. I contacted them and submitted games. Ultimately, it was this company that licensed my first two games. I'm currently following up with one previous first-round rejection with a revision (per their requests) of a declined game.

Game design is not at a point for me where I'll be able to make a living off of it, but it looks like I'll be published, which is nice. I'm going to keep plugging at it, and we'll see where it gets me.

On TV and other media as sources of distraction and inspiration:
I don't watch TV. I haven't watched it regularly (or even irregularly) for over 7 years. I've gained an immense amount of free time by doing so. Most of this free time is spent designing games. The rest is spent with my sweetie. It's a good trade-off. I still get plenty of exposure to media second-hand, through my friends and playtesters. They act as a sort of vetting service, directing me toward the better stuff, which my honey and I then watch on DVD and discuss.

On video game design vs. board game design:
Awareness of design and play in all its forms – board, card, active sport, video game, alternate reality games, live-action role playing, table-top role playing, etc. – is useful. Designing a level for a video game parallels designing a board for a board game or an event randomizer. I'm big on inclusiveness, and like to hear about how other disciplines deal with corollary issues and problems.

hoduken
Offline
Joined: 10/03/2008
Wow thanks for the in depth

Wow thanks for the in depth reply InvisibleJon I really appreciate it.

InvisibleJon
InvisibleJon's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/27/2008
hoduken wrote:Wow thanks for

hoduken wrote:
Wow thanks for the in depth reply InvisibleJon I really appreciate it.
You're welcome. Writing a self-review like that helps me too. It forces me to take a good look at where I've been, understand where I'm at, and get an idea of where I'm going.

Grudunza
Grudunza's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/27/2008
My game designing is really

My game designing is really just a side hobby, but being self-employed in my main job (musician) allows me some time here and there to dabble with that. I tend to work on things in waves... I might work pretty heavily on a game design for a week or two, and then not really touch it again for a month or two... that kind of thing. I'm usually thinking of ideas for new games or ideas about how to fix or otherwise finish games I'm already working on, but until something really clicks into an "a ha!" kind of spark, then I don't necessarily spend the time to actually make notes or draw graphics and such.

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut