The math of it all

First off, my visions for these mechanics, at least for my own application, ultimately are to have them be obscure and subtle to the player. I mean I'm not talking about for example a passage in the rule set saying "Unbenounced to your oponent, count out blah blah, and tell them "blah blah blah bla". Or, "(X) game is a unique adventure with magic like card play".

Anyway, what about this. I sort of got a seedling of an example using Gibonacci sequences mod 9:

Using the bracelet:
112358437189887641562819112....repeats it's self. Line up the first 12 on top and the proceeding 12 on bottom:

1 1 2 3 5 8 4 3 7 1 8 9
8 8 7 6 4 1 5 6 2 8 1 9

I give you (made up example) "Wizard vs. Wizard"

Each of the above numbers can represent a "spell" card. It's corresponding number in the sequence will be a value in the corner of the card or somewhere on it, representing the cost of the spell, it's money value. Notice each pair adds up to "9" besides the last pair of 9's. These spells would make up a spell deck.

So lets take the first pair 1, and 8. I buy a cheap spell for 1$ and can cast it on you and it will put a lasting curs on you that does something irritating. It's effect don't go away until you use (Y) spell worth $8, which despells it and cancels it out and both cards are discarded into a pile. You who dispelled the curse get $9 or points. And so on with all the other pairs. The cards would say something like: "you get this curse, only (Y) spell can cure it. There would have to be more than that surelly. maybe something like there are two kinds of a number, one that casts a curse and one that dispells one. Or one spell has both effects. Maybe (Y)'s $8 spell teleports money from your oponent to you, but your oponent can easily break it with (A) $1.

I'm sure there's a lot more that can make this example worthwhile.

This is just a vary rough thought. I haven't spent much time with this example.

Please don't mind me piging-out on this thread, I found this article interesting:
http://www.maa.org/columns/colm/cardcolm200810.html

I want to thank many of you who posted some great things on this thread. I am apreciating many of them more now, haveing more knowledge on sequences.

Well, Mitch, I think there are other similar longer bracelets that go longer before repeating. I have yet to really break-in this new wrinkle in my brain. I need to really sit down and do some serious study on paper. And of course there's triple sums and what not.

All of this of cource has useful application in games. you know I like to start simple. Cool, if it creats some simple dandy ways of balance and stuff like that. I would like to get to a point where I'm using several combinations of math tricks and sequencing to create this interesting system of how cards play in the game. You know how in many games, in game set up, the decks have a certain place in relation to the board. It would even be cool if you could set it up, in such a sneakety deakety way that the player is making their own decisions, "and" the cards are shuffled, "but" because "you" design the cards, you could still pop in big "suprises" in the games. And the suprises change. It sounds like a tall order I know. But that is what motivates me.

hahahhah hah ahh you got me busting up laughing. (Dr. Evil grin)

This is an interesting point. One thing that strikes me though is that if Knizia holds a doctorate in mathematics....a doctorate, I'm sure a lot of the math is processed on a subconscious level by that point. But, your probably right about not requiring a lot of math. That was a thought that crossed my mind though. It's still a doctorate making the statement. He has a lot of playtesters I hear. Do you think that someone so skilled at something can simply say it was my playtesters? I mean if I were to paint a portrait of someone, I would be silly to say "Ohhhhhhh she told me how to paint her. She wispered in my ear, you can do the same thing I did just now. Look here, just let her wisper to you". I don't disagree with the knizia statement, but he does have a more than avorage math ability. How easy could it be to sluff that off?

lol! Hey what's up Mitch? How's you projects been going?

Thank you Mitch! I post this stuff also to get fellow designers considering new possibilities.

Regarding the question of white boxes and black boxes, I will get back to you on that. What I've presented in the MS Word attachement, is the basic math of the mechanic. This is so a designer can look at it and understand the basics of what needs to be understood if she wants to create some variation or use this basic mechanism. On that writing, I don't say exactly how to execute it, being that it is open to the designers imagination on how to execute it. Like I said, I will get back to this question later.

As for the figureing out part, for one thing, I am confident that I can stream line this mechanic such that pretty much everything is explained on the cards that when you read them, you know what to do. And the complex system I think can be presenting as simple for a child to follow along. I am pretty sure it would not matter weather players actually catch on, because it still offers player choices that by design, would always be an unkown to the oponent.

No matter how ... "magical" or "clever" this mechanic tries to be or whatever anyone's perseption of it is, there are many advantages that this system has built into it for the game dynamics. I try to list as many of these advanteges that come to mind in my treatement.

Soon, I will make an effort to post some print-out cards to use to validate the mechanic.

I apreciate that you see value in this system. I welcome you and anyone else to use it in their own way. I would love to see your ideas Mitch relating to our discussions here and any other you may have.
Cheers,
Dustin

Holy mother of Shiva! Ther is a time traveler lurking in this forum....right here in this thread- in the box next to this post in the thread list "page views". Once the number got to (100) it went backwards in time. I couldn't beleave it at first, but I've been tracking the number for the past week and it confurms my suspicions. It's now at (82). I always knew numbers can time travel, but this confurms that numerical time travelers like BGDF. I think this agent is following me.

Great point monica, and I hope to releave the player of the math. I intend to have the important information and numbers on the cards. Little math or none at all should be the burden of the player. Actually, in the mechanic that I shared, I beleave the players have plenty of choice and plenty room for strategy. As will be more developed in my battle procedures. The way I am working this mechanic, I will be saving the players a lot of stress and making it easier for them in my opinion. One of the things that I just love about the formula I am using is that I get to plug whatever values I want into the variables and it functions.