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Replayability versus Simplicity

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BlueRift
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Joined: 04/01/2012
Conquest Prime Board Example

So I'm working on my strategy board game and one of the design goals I had from the beginning was to implement systems that encourages replayability. It's a space-themed strategy game where the edges and vertexes of a hex-board are where the action takes place (The picture is a PowerPoint mockup of the real thing which doesn't line up perfectly yet, I do realize the irregular board isn't the best thing for production but what's a guy to do?).

I have a design theory question: where should the line be between replayability and simplicity? I can make the game more customizable but that will make the setup process longer and more cumbersome. I can also completely fixing everything but then I feel like I'm giving up customizability (Note: Axis & Allies has a fixed beginning and it's still a cumbersome process). This applies to many games (possibly not card games) and I think is a worthwhile discussion.

Currently, my game is setup in 4 steps. Each is done in a pre-determined order that is opposite of turn order.

Step 1: I have designed my game with 4 board pieces (one for each player) with the same shape but a unique layout of systems (See the attached image) The blue dots represent systems controllable by players. The idea is that you connect one piece for each player playing.

Step 2: After the board is together, players each draw a terrain piece (I haven't thought of a better name for black holes, asteroid fields and the like). They are the 3-pronged things next to the board in the picture, each color refers to a different terrain type. They place this piece on one of the systems so that it covers the system vertex and the 3 adjacent vertexes. The terrain pieces change the shape of the board by speeding up movement, slowing down movement, or blocking off movement.

Step 3: Players place colony tokens until all systems are claimed, this results in 5 systems per player. (6 per board piece minus the terrain placement).

Step 4: Players get a set number of ships and divide them into 3 fleets. They place their 3 fleet tokens on systems they own in order.

I've tested it and it's pretty quick in a two player game (just 2 board pieces and 2 terrain pieces) and only takes about 8 minutes including ship dividing and fleet placement. I haven't tested 4 players with this exact design.

What do you think? Should I have terrain integrated into the board so that placing the board pieces determines the effect that terrain has? Should I make the board pieces all together because random systems and terrain makes it diverse enough?

More importantly: For any game, where do you think the line should be between customizability and simplicity? I don't think there's a right answer but I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

federicolatini
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Joined: 04/15/2012
Include the set up in the game

First of all let me state that I 'm mr. Nobody in game design so excusme in advance if my comment is inappropriate. That said, your set up gave me the feeling of a geme itself, so why don't you throw in some simple and yet wise mechanics to set up the board, then at a given condition (say X ship deployed) players can begin the phase two where your actual game start. However beware of the extention in length that this might cause.
Ciao
Fede

Avianfoo
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Joined: 01/31/2012
Setup time vs Getting to the Action

I prefer a slightly longer setup time if it starts the game closer to interesting conflict between players. If you start the game with 1 planet and spend the next 5 turns not even having the option of interacting with anyone I would say that a 8 minute setup time is a small price to pay to get straight to the meat of the game.

Also about "Replayability versus Simplicity" I think they can exist together. Take GO for example. It is highly replayable but the base rules are really simple. It has amazing depth which leads to it being played over and over again. I think you might mean "extensibility vs simplicity" or something similar. As something is extended it necessarily becomes more complex that does not mean that it can't start out relatively simple. Thought that said, you want to have a nice framework that allows for easy "plug-in" of many different and interesting new components/rules (e.g. new ships, new planets, new resources, new events, political systems, trading systems, resources systems, new technologies etc.) I am struggling with a similar problem with H-DEC. What is a "good enough" base ruleset that is both extensible and relatively easy to learn?

kos
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Joined: 01/17/2011
Variable setup

BlueRift wrote:
What do you think? Should I have terrain integrated into the board so that placing the board pieces determines the effect that terrain has?

The terrain placement in your description looks simple enough. Cutting it out would save a minute or two at most, so I wouldn't use setup time as an argument to cut it out. The terrain might indirectly extend the time taken to place the colonies, because people have to give more thought to the specific board layout to work out their strategy. However, I consider the time spent on this kind of analysis to be "good time" not "bad time".

BlueRift wrote:
Should I make the board pieces all together because random systems and terrain makes it diverse enough?

I wouldn't use setup time as an argument for putting the board pieces together. If I was going to make an argument for putting the board pieces together, it would be based on physical manufacturing considerations. The odd-shaped pieces will greatly complicate your manufacturing, and all those hex corners sticking out may be prone to getting bent depending on what material it is made from.

That said, I like the idea of variable setup because it forces players to re-think their strategy at the start of the game.

I note though that the positions of the planets in your sample images are spread rather uniformly. To some extent this undermines the goal of variable setup, because it doesn't make much difference which board pieces you use nor which orientation they are placed in. Imagine if in Risk all the continents had an equal number of territories and gave an equal recruitment bonus -- the basic game would still be the same but I think that some of the tactical maneuvering decisions would become obsolete.

In your game, must each board piece have exactly 6 planets? Could some have only 4 -- or would that throw out other parts of the game balance? I was trying to come up with alternate arrangements of the planets within each board piece to get more intersting layouts, but on further looking the density of planets compared to empty space makes it hard to make layouts that don't look uniform.

BlueRift wrote:
For any game, where do you think the line should be between customizability and simplicity? I don't think there's a right answer but I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

I think that customizability (or variable setup) has only a minor effect on replayability. Variable setup can breathe life into an otherwise poor game design for only a few more plays than it would have otherwise received, but once players have tried a few different setups they will not keep playing unless the game itself is inherently fun/replayable. The most successful strategy games of all time (chess, go, etc) have fixed setup and almost infinite replayability.

I am not trying to argue against variable setup, just pointing out that variable setup will never turn a bad game into a good game. Nor will variable setup create interesting strategic options unless the underlying game already contains interesting strategies in a fixed setup scenario.

Finally, I don't think that variable setup is inherently better or worse than fixed setup. Some players prefer one over the other, but that has more to do with their preferred playing style. There was an article linked on bgdf just recently about different players' playing styles, which categorised players as Planners vs Intuitive. Pure Planners will normally prefer fixed setup because they enjoy analyzing the game for hours and hours before they start playing (e.g. see all the books written about chess openings). Pure Intuitive players will normally prefer variable setup because they enjoy the challenge of responding to a fresh situation as it comes along.

You can tell from my comments above that I tend towards the Intuitive side of the continuum, but I don't try to say that my way of playing is the One True Way.

Regards,
kos

PeerGynt
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Joined: 03/13/2012
Standard/ customizable hex pieces

The setup and hex layout of the board makes me think of the component game systems. These had hex shaped map pieces, which had 7 off center hexes on each piece. That sounds confusing- so look at the picture over at BGG:
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/53644/babylon-5-component-game-system-cor...

Anyway, it might be a solution in that you give each player a certain number of map pieces which they can arrange and fit together with the other players to create an overall map. This lets each person control the layout of their own territory, but they have surprises when entering foreign territory.

Personally, I think variable setup can create interesting dynamics in a game, but isn't crucial.

SlyBlu7
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Joined: 03/15/2012
In an earlier thread you were

In an earlier thread you were asking about your exploration/movement mechanic. One of the problems that you said players were having, was understanding why distances always expanded between two points (a real model of the universe, yes, but hard to swallow in game terms).
I would roll your Exploration mechanic into the game itself. Start with your setup as-is, and then give the players a "treaty" turn to continue expanding the map. Sort of like the NEW Axis and Allies, where nations can play but can't attack until they are 'tagged in' or their historic era of neutrality was ended.
Under this method, you still end up with a very large map, built by the players, but the map itself is part of the game/strategy and isn't just relegated to "here's how we set up". In the early turns, players are trying to explore outward into the universe and find more colonies to get resources from, while also putting distance between themselves and a particular opponent. If the treaty period ended randomly, it would add a lot of extra dynamics to the game, and more variability without hampering the overall design.

Alternatively, why not give the players a blank hex-grid, and several variably sized hex tiles. If you've played the XBox game 'Resonance of Fate' you might understand where I'm going. They start the game by playing down their Empires (a single large piece, comprised of multiple tiles) wherever they want on the map. After that, players exploring draw a shape of tiles from the bag (rather than loose, individual tiles) and lay it down so that it touches both their explorer ship, and a previously placed tile group. Sort of like a puzzle. If you can't get the tile to fit, it is lost and your ship just floats in no-man's land until you can draw a tile that fits correctly.

desperadonate
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Joined: 12/07/2011
I think it depends on what the "customization" adds

From a theoretical standpoint, I'd say there's always a danger of having too many options, so it's always better to go with a well defined vision of what your game is about than trying to cram too many concepts into one game. I find that a game with simple and balanced mechanics usually wins out over a game with complex mechanics because what ends up happening is that a game with simple and well defined mechanics will spawn complex strategies because the player is able to imagine all sorts of strategic theories, while the more complex game actually limits players in how they can approach things (Obviously, there are exceptions to this, and it is possible to create a complex game that inspires player creativity and invites replay after replay, but it must be incredibly well designed, and even then, it must be free of unnecessary components, i.e. those that do not enhance the game).

Dealing with your case specifically, I don't think you're making an overly complicated game, and it seems that you have a pretty well defined vision for your game, so there's no worries on that account. I think the important question you have to answer is what purpose does the customized [dynamic] layout serve that would enhance the game beyond what the fixed [static] layout provides. I think the important thing is focusing on the mechanic affects game play rather than fixating on setup time, because, within reason, players will be willing to put up with a more intensive setup process if the game experience is worth it.

I do think the biggest instance where a more dynamic setup (i.e. the layout is different each time) adds to the replayablility factor is in games where a static layout allows the game to become one dimensional over time. For example, if Settlers was on a static board, people would eventually figure out where the best spots were and the game would basically hinge on the die roll to see who gets to go first. But since the layout is different every time, you have to adjust your strategy. If players are able to come up with a simple formula to consistently win, it's probably a sign that the game is out of balance and you need to add a mechanic to change the challenges the players are facing.

You might also want to consider having a mechanic for randomized elements and having that separate from player-initiated strategic elements. That way you force the players to compensate for the terrain layout, rather than just placing pieces where they give the biggest strategic advantage (You may already be doing that if you're having them draw and place the terrain pieces face down).

So in short, I think if the game is still multidimensional and inspires creative strategies after repeated play testing (it would be important that the same players play it over and over) with more static layout, you're probably best keeping it simple. But if someone comes up with a way to make it one dimensional because of terrain placement or something, I think that's a case where a more dynamic layout can help with replayablility because players can't count on just setting up near terrain feature x or y to win the game each time.

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