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Warhammer tabletop gaming

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Sun, 12/11/2011 - 22:50
questccg
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Okay I was just thinking about miniature/tabletop games. One thing everyone usually focuses is on a BOARD. Obviously this is logical, because we are so used to "board games".

Well what I was thinking in the Warhammer style of game play, you could have a "string" attached to EACH unit. The length of the string would vary. For example, a "Red Dragon" would have a longer string that a "Swordsman".

Basically what you would be able to do, is MOVE up to the length of the string per turn. Obviously you don't need to in the event you want to have initiative (and can figure out the length of an opposing unit).

I am uncertain about the battle mechanism.

However this "idea" would mean that you could move in ANY direction, up to a specific point. This would only work with miniatures... Where you physically need to have "units".

This is the opposite idea of having a transparent piece of plastic and a washable marker to which you would slide the pen a certain distance to get to a certain position. The problem with this is that is requires a large sheet of clear plastic paper.

With the string, you do not need the sheet of paper and it is approximately the same thing - with the exception that you have control over how far you decide to move.

I brought this up because I think some people were talking about miniatures/tabletop games... Let me know what you think.

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Sun, 12/11/2011 - 22:53
#1
questccg
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Why?

questccg wrote:
With the string, you do not need the sheet of paper and it is approximately the same thing - with the exception that you have control over how far you decide to move.

Basically this then does not limit the movement to hexes or squares, etc. It just limits the distance any unit can move. IMHO this makes the movement more natural - and realism in a Warhammer game is usually what players are looking for.

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Sun, 12/11/2011 - 23:12
#2
questccg
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Another option

Another option to the string (because you may not like having to add a string to each unit) is to use a special ruler.

The ruler could be divided into different segments. Each segment could then be used to move a particular unit. Again motion can be in ANY direction.

You could use a flexible sheet of clear plastic (like a plastic ruler) with your own segments depending on the classes of each unit. The thing I like about the string, is that even if you have units in the way - in most cases it will be possible to "get around" another unit. With the ruler, it becomes harder when something is in the way.

Just some thoughts...

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Sun, 12/11/2011 - 23:21
#3
questccg
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Work-in-progress

Okay so I have decided to MERGE both ideas into one...

Basically you would have ONE string of a specific length (large enough). The string would be divided into segments with different COLORS.

Each unit would be given a class (or COLOR) and you would use this special "string" to move in any direction...

This would allow you to use someone else's miniatures towards your OWN Warhammer game! :)

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Sun, 12/11/2011 - 23:29
#4
questccg
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Prototype "string"

Well the thing is it might be difficult to manufacture a multi-colored string. Not impossible - just probably difficult.

So an easy way to do this is use a simple cord/string and use a piece of tape with paper. On the paper you can mark a letter or a number... Then you wrap the piece of tape around the cord and over the piece of paper such that the top part of the tape connects and sticks together.

This would make creating a working prototype EASY. It may not be as pretty as the multi-colored string but could be manufactured at home without too many difficulties.

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Sun, 12/11/2011 - 23:39
#5
questccg
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Duh

questccg wrote:
Well the thing is it might be difficult to manufacture a multi-colored string. Not impossible - just probably difficult.

Duh - You could just simply PAINT the string... Sorry, sometimes it takes time for me to digest when I am working on something.

So basically a painted string could replace a board for a Warhammer miniature game...

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Sun, 12/11/2011 - 23:46
#6
questccg
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Building on the concept

You could have DIFFERENT strings for EACH race of creatures controlled. So one player could have different segments for a particular "clan". This would make predicting more complicated (but still not impossible) and could allow for enough variance...

Hahaha - It would be funny to open up this big box and get 4 little strings! :D But in practice it would be more realistic than squares or hexes...

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 03:10
#7
le_renard
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take a look at the great

take a look at the great 'Song of Blades and Heroes'... you have everything you need there for your fast and simple tabletop skirmish.

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 05:29
#8
Evil ColSanders
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le_renard wrote: take a look

le_renard wrote:
take a look at the great 'Song of Blades and Heroes'... you have everything you need there for your fast and simple tabletop skirmish.

Excellent suggestion. I've looked at that myself when I was working on a tabletop game.

Although, string is too springy and stretchy. You might want to try the colored, bendy, fuzzy wire known as Craft Pipe Cleaners.

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 16:03
#9
questccg
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Song of Blades and Heroes is neat

le_renard wrote:
take a look at the great 'Song of Blades and Heroes'... you have everything you need there for your fast and simple tabletop skirmish.

Thanks for the link. Not sure if their 3 rulers are identical or not. I was going for variation to give certain clans an advantage over the other... And from the product they also suggest 2 methods of play: measuring or hex grids.

I was thinking of not using the grid for motion. Just to give more depth to the terrain. You can go the more "realistic" route like in SBH with miniature trees and buildings. Or you can go with more flexible "loose" hexes which can have bonuses/penalties.

The later gives a more "board" feel to the game. Maybe a sort of D&D without the fixed grid system... Anyhow I think the "loose" format is something worthwhile exploring. Players can take turns during the build phase and put together a terrain instead of using a traditional board...

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 17:12
#10
questccg
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RPG element

le_renard wrote:
take a look at the great 'Song of Blades and Heroes'... you have everything you need there for your fast and simple tabletop skirmish.

Clearly I had forgotten the RPG element to the game. SBH reminded me that the RPG element, namely following the correct rule set, is another BIG selling point. So you may not have a board however you may end up with a series of slinky rulers and a novel idea.

That may certain help when it comes time for the game's publication. You might find more people willing to publish it. And you can do like Warhammer, sell the miniatures separately. Then you need to come up with a rule about how to "balance" teams when playing! :P

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 17:20
#11
questccg
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Things come and go

questccg wrote:
And you can do like Warhammer, sell the miniatures separately. Then you need to come up with a rule about how to "balance" teams when playing! :P

Obviously you could be smart about it and create a catalog of all Warhammer figurines and setup a series of classes/clans. With this you can then move forwards and use your new set of rulers. This would greatly reduce the cost of production... You would probably be able to find a TON of publishers who could manufacture your product!

It's not that I want to design a cheap game - I'm just trying to lower the cost of entry barrier... If you have to design your own miniatures well then that will certain cost a pretty penny. Hahaha - I'm in the Card business and it has cost me a pretty penny AND they are ONLY cards!

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 17:32
#12
questccg
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Each sold separately

Well if you plan to add more depth and use the hexes rather than miniature buildings or trees, well those can be sold separately. This can be an add-on that adds more strategy to the tabletop game.

It also makes a good strategy to "divide and conquer" making it cheaper to get the word out about the game itself.

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 18:27
#13
questccg
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SBH vs Warhammer

Well I am sure that SBH is more of a gamer's game than Warhammer. I mean, just from a model perspective the variety is overwhelming.

However rather than focus on races, going with clans is another way of mixing things up. What are you going to do??? Are you going to purchase 10 different series to control one unit of each? Seriously that would be a joke!

However if you set up new rules according to clans, you could put together a new challenge: playing cooperatively with different races. Again a Novel way of working with existing models with the added challenge of finding the right material.

I think SBH brings the interesting concept of campaigns or scenarios in a fast paced format. Whereas Warhammer is probably much slower in volume, you would need to cover a lot of material in order to play.

I really can't imagine these tabletops to be that popular with a younger crowd... Which leads me to wonder about an older audience? Not everyone is willing to read and then take the time to teach the rules, etc.

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Mon, 12/12/2011 - 19:06
#14
questccg
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535 pages ... OMG!

questccg wrote:
I really can't imagine these tabletops to be that popular with a younger crowd... Which leads me to wonder about an older audience? Not everyone is willing to read and then take the time to teach the rules, etc.

Warhammer has a 535 page manual ($90) + manuals to cover each race ($35+). SBH has a 34 page manual ($5.00)... So if you wanted to share this with your kids - what are you prepared to invest in? Do you really think you can teach a 535 page manual to your son???

A Novel series based on clans could be a way to produce 30 pages and hopefully have something you can read and teach your son.

Develop a storyline to go with it ... and you might have something worthwhile!

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Tue, 12/13/2011 - 06:23
#15
le_renard
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I'm not really into

I'm not really into miniatures etc... even if I do enjoy painting a couple of nice models from time to time.
I love the Warhammer world and am sometimes even a GM, but I don't want to spend hours and hours and a lot of money into it. That's why we have adopted SBH... the rules are light and pretty easy to grasp.
Of course, one could say that it doesn't have the level of detail (especially when it comes to weapons or armor) of Warhammer, but well.. that's precisely why it is fun and fast !
Grab a couple of models here and there, build their profiles using the tables in the rulebook and play !
I know that some kids of 8 or 9 years can play with this ruleset and it is deep enough to satisfy more casual gamers and more...
this website has not been updated for a long time, but you will find some (french speaking only.. sorry) articles and pictures of our SBH sessions ^^
http://ns10.freeheberg.com/~lerenar2/boardgames/wordpress/?cat=3

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Tue, 12/13/2011 - 15:16
#16
questccg
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Je vais lire attentivement

le_renard wrote:
I know that some kids of 8 or 9 years can play with this ruleset and it is deep enough to satisfy more casual gamers and more...
this website has not been updated for a long time, but you will find some (french speaking only.. sorry) articles and pictures of our SBH sessions

Je vais prendre le temps de bien lire le lien que vous m'avez donne. Pour ma part, je penses que les oeuvres d'arts sont beaux pour les efforts requis. Cependant, je favorise un environment plus propice au developpement du jeu.

My interests are mainly in cards or various forms of cards. Right now I am exploring square-like cardboard cards. I am not aiming for realism, instead I am favoring things like tapping secret abilities and the likes... It has all been done before - however new art, new possibilities... That's they way I am looking at things - from now on.

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Tue, 12/13/2011 - 16:09
#17
questccg
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The problem is...

le_renard wrote:
I love the Warhammer world and am sometimes even a GM, but I don't want to spend hours and hours and a lot of money into it.

I agree, hours and hours is a problem. The thing is - I like Quality. Nice models are also appealing to me... Since I collect, I don't want this or that: I want something half decent. I do have a friend who is a master at painting... He could easily make something dull and gray really shiny and new! But then there is the other side of the coin... Do I really want to put him through the effort - I mean he has a life also.

So I think somethings are for people who are serious - even though they may not be very up-to-date. I'm not a walking or talking dictionary.

However when I go to the local gaming store, I see what they sell: SINGLES. I watched a guy bring his iPad and present it to the store clerk. The guy went through 5 different books and produced him a complete listing of what he should buy. THAT'S IT.

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Fri, 12/16/2011 - 09:08
#18
pelle
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rulers

I own a pile of (mostly unpainted) minis that I intend to use for something like Square Bashing (there was an old fan home page with lots of info a few years ago, archived here).

There are more games in the same series, on other themes, but the idea is the same to divide the table into a few large squares (default, recommended, is 6x4) and all movement/combat is from square to adjacent square. Basically just normal area movement , but with very few big areas. Means you can arrange units and terrain any way you want, to look good, and never worry about exact placement or measuring distances. (homepage)

A more popular game also without free movement is Crossfire. I'm thinking of buying those rules when they are reprinted (soon?). They use a point-to-point system, so you move from terrain feature to terrain feature. Fire range is unlimited, so you only need to check line of sight from one location to the other across the board. Also seems like a very good initiative system rather than the old UGOIGO.

(There is a design subforum on TMP that you might want to try if you want feedback from miniature games designers.)

Attaching the strings to units doesn't sound so nice. Using strings in different colors, or marked different ways, sounds like standard miniature game stuff? I never played Warhammer, so I don't know about that, but remember miniature games have been played for many many years, there have probably been a hundred ways of calculating distances invented. Just pick the one(s) you like.

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