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WIP: Turmoil! (Go Fish / UNO Crossover)

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Wed, 01/06/2016 - 04:23
Fhizban
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sample-template.jpg

See the official rules here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iUMVEcUj5VwDdbNDW6hPS65YmtXMC4t2aZId...

Older post below:

Hello all,
I could really need your help over here: Im currently working on a new, simple and straightforward filler game based on GO FISH or QUARTETT (in germany) that is suitable for kids and grown-ups alike. We like to add some special effects to some of the cards, without adding too much text to them (we prefer symbols).

There is no prototype yet and I did not make a solo-playtest, but I thought you might have some good ideas to spare.

Here are the "guidelines", thats the stuff we really want to have in the game:

1. Two or more players. Max players depends on total number of cards, but we want it to be playable by just 2 people as well.

2. Suits of 6. Thats a bit unusal, because normally there are just 4. But I have access to a really nice art source that features suits of 6.

3. 52 to 120 or even more cards. We really have a lot of those 6-card-pairs-artworks available and could even include a lot of duplicates.

4. Max. one printed number on each card. So the cards could have a Strength value.

5. Max. one printed symbol per card. So the cards could be of a certain color or feature a symol like ace, spade - but that could also be defined by the artwork.

6. Max. one special per card. We want some cards to feature special abilities, but only one ability per card and it should be easy to read.

7. Instead of asking your opponents for cards of a certain type we thought about a betting system, auction or trade system to make it more interesting/strategic.

okay, thats all for now. does anyone have an idea?

thanks a lot in advance

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Wed, 01/06/2016 - 15:12
#1
Zag24
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So you're looking for the

So you're looking for the game that is to Go Fish as Uno is to Crazy Eights? It's an interesting idea, but I do think that Crazy Eights is fundamentally a more fun game than Go Fish. (YMMV)

However, I suspect that introducing betting or auction systems would make it no longer Go Fish, and would add complexity that kills the pace and the easiness that makes the game fun for young kids. However, some special powers could improve it, including some that allow for trading (but as a rare special power, not as a constant thing).

Here are a few that I came up with in 2 minutes of thinking about it:
- Making a full meld of Kings or Queens allows me another turn right away.

- Making a full meld of Guards allows me to "guard" one other rank, so that I can't be asked for that rank by anyone else unless that person sacrifices a Spy. (This is designated by placing a single one of the protected rank on top of my meld of Guards. If someone burns a Spy to ask me for that rank, I have to give up all the ones I have, including the one among the Guards.)

- Making a full meld of Spies allows me to ignore a meld of Guards without sacrificing a Spy.

- Making a full meld of Judges allows me to designate one other person who misses his next turn (because he's in prison).

- An Old Maid card which you can give away along with a group of cards an opponent has fished for. Anyone holding the Old Maid card is not allowed to place any melds. If he does, his meld can be disqualified (or maybe stolen) by the person who gave him the Old Maid.

- Jester cards which can be substituted for cards you otherwise would have to give up, allowing you to keep one and therefore ask for them back, perhaps with some limitations.

I would be very cautious about your change that melds are 6 cards rather than 4, decided because of the artwork you have available. Sure, try it that way, but make the choice that is best for game-play, not the one that makes the best use of your available artwork.

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Thu, 01/07/2016 - 02:59
#2
Fhizban
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Hi Zag, Thanks for the reply.

Hi Zag,
Thanks for the reply. That idea with the meld-effects sounds good.

Here is a little something we came up with in the meantime:

* There will be melds of 6 and some with 4 or even just 2 cards. There are some variants out there that also have different kinds of meld-sizes so it seems ok. we still have to test the 6's, maybe its too much and too difficult to collect.

* The game now ends when someone gets rid of all cards, but the winner is determined by the number of books/melds completed.

* One card from the drawing deck is always placed face-up. thats the current "Chief". There is an effect on almost every card thats only active when the card is the Chief.

example: Khan - when this card is the chief, everytime a player draws a card, he/she draws two cards instead.

* What you can do during your turn:

A. draw a card (usually the leat appealing action)
B. put down a completed meld.
C. ask an opponent for a card from a specific civilisation, only do so if you already have at least one card of that civ in your hand. opponents must hand it over or if you fail, you must draw a card.
D. exchange the current chief with another card from your hand. either the Civilisation or the Rank on the cards must match in order to be exchanged.

if you cannot do any of the above actions, you must draw a card instead.

thats all for now, going to add the "Set bonus" from completed melds as Zag24 suggested. this seems to add some nice extra complexity/strategy to the game.

just have to check for hidden loopholes and bugs but regarding complexity/features it seems OK to me. not too much, but enough new stuff to keep it interested and make it different.

anymore ideas?

thanks guys!

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Thu, 01/07/2016 - 15:10
#3
Fhizban
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another littel update from my

another little update from my side:

A sample card from my upcoming "Go Fish / UNO" variant. Text is currently in german, but english as well as french versions will also be done. The various suits will have differently colored banners to make the cards look better.

translated this card reads:

Name: "Maynot Drinknothing - Roman"

Ability: "Nice Shot - As long as I am the chief, every player draws two cards instead of just one, whenever a card is drawn".

Check it:

http://www.bgdf.com/sites/default/files/images/sample-card.png

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Thu, 01/07/2016 - 16:57
#4
Zag24
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I like the "chief" idea.

I like the "chief" idea. When does the current chief selected change?

The text on your card is a bit small, and the white-on-medium-green is only barely enough contrast. It always bugs me when game designers are so enamored of their own art that they squeeze the text to be too small just so the art can be a little bigger. I do like the artwork, but I think you could shrink it some in order to enlarge the text.

If you add the meld powers, you'll have to make some more room for text. However, you can get away with putting the meld power only on one of the cards in the meld. This gives a small advantage to players who know all the powers, but I don't think it's crippling.

If your melds are of different sizes, you absolutely must include the meld size somewhere on every card. If I'm holding only one of a 2-card meld, that's way more valuable than holding one of a 6-card meld, so I have to be able to tell by looking at it.

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 02:20
#5
Fhizban
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Font can be increased of

Font can be increased of course, I can increase the lower banner part without any problems and reduce the art size a bit instead.

Instead of playing a meld or asking your opponent for a card, you can also replace the current chief. Replacement is only possible with a card of the same civilisation (Roman) or the same rank (thats the crown symbol on top left).

There would be chief abilities WHILE the card is the chief and some that trigger only once, WHEN the card becomes the chief.

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 08:00
#6
Fhizban
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A bit more info after some

A bit more info after some brainstorming together with my wife:

1. we agreed on melds of 4 because 6 is too difficult to collect. plus there are a few melds with just 2 (pairs).

2. there are now CHIEF abilities as well as MELD abilities. you can still play a card with a meld ability as a chief, but it wont have any special effect.

3. all cards have a ability with only 2 duplicates, thats 34 different abilities so far.

4. core set will consist of 36 cards:

8 melds of 4 cards each = 32 cards
plus 2 melds of 2 cards each = 4 cards
for a total of 36 cards

thats enough for 2 players, I would like to add another 32 card expansion for 2 more players and maybe even a third one for a maximum of 6 players.

first real playtest plus screenshots soon!

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 10:37
#7
Fhizban
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and another one: rules are

and another one: rules are ready!

---- copied from my BGG post ----

Hi all,
Together with my lovely wife, I have worked on a little Go Fish / UNO crossover game for quite a while. Its a quick and simple filler game, with some interesting twists (as we see it).

We will release the print-n-play version for testing soon and the full game will be available on the gamecrafter as well this spring.

In the meantime, do you like to have a look at the current rules-set and give me some feedback? We would really apprecciate!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iUMVEcUj5VwDdbNDW6hPS65YmtXMC4t2aZId...

thanks in advance
-Tobias (Fhizban)

PS: post your feedback right here if any

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 10:55
#8
JewellGames
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Looks fun

A quick readthrough of the rules and I really like the game so far. Once you have the game up to test I will see if I can convince my wife to play. Some suggestions for the action names:

Colonize a Tribe
Recruit/Locate a Tribe Member
Overthrow a Chief

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 12:55
#9
Fhizban
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thanks - all feedback is

thanks - all feedback is appreciated!

updated the rules with some input from the BGG forum as well.

Im now working on the final template for the cards.

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 15:47
#10
killerkilroy
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Ideas

Action name ideas

Unite Tribe: Settle (+a town/city?), Build a Civilization

Ask for Card: Recruit, Raid or Convert (I like raid best, since you're forcibly bringing them from your opponents' "civilization" to yours)

Crown Chief: Overthrow the chief, Coup, or Hostile takeover for the militaristic bent. Pass the torch, a new chief is born, or "the chief is dead, long live the chief" for a more passing of time feel.

Draw: Recruit also works here, as does explore/search/gather (+resources?)

Regarding the Ask for a Card action:

Unless I'm not understanding your card distribution, specifying both a tribe and a suit seems very specific. In Go Fish you only ask for a number and with 13 values you still "fish" a lot. I imagine asking for a unique value out of 36(or more with expansions) cards means no one would ever get cards from their opponents. Also, revealing your card when asking seems like a major disadvantage, because you're confirming both tribe and suit, leaving you open for super easy sniping. Basically the first person to ask for a card, unless they get very lucky, will be guaranteed to lose a card.

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 16:26
#11
Fhizban
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@killerkilroy:thanks for

@killerkilroy:

thanks for pointing the "Ask for Card" error out. Explanation:

during the last playtest with my wife we used a system where you could ask for any card of either a specific Tribe or a specific symbol (symbols are ranks in this game). That allowed the players to literally ask for any card ("do you have a viking?" "do you have a shield symbol card?"). Also, the players often had several cards that matched this criteria in their hands ("yes, I have 3 vikings - which one do you want?").

during my latest rules rewrite i wanted to tone it down to just one card. therfore players have to ask for BOTH a symbol and a tribe. that always matches just one card in a players hand.

BUT, you are right - thats outright impossible to make the "ask for a card" aspect right.

hmm, should have done another playtest.

thanks for the input, now back to the drawing board!

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Fri, 01/08/2016 - 18:27
#12
killerkilroy
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More ideas

So I've been running through solutions to your card taking problem, and I realized that I don't think I know the purpose of the suits in this game. Beyond visually differentiating cards from the same tribe is there a reason for different suits?

Edit- I realize that you use the suits for changing chiefs, anything else?

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Sat, 01/09/2016 - 03:47
#13
Fhizban
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well, yes you are right. the

well, yes you are right. the only thing i know is that we want suits in the game.

there are 4 of them and they have a color as well: Crown, Star, Heart and Shield.

right now there is not much about them, especially since the card taking changed:

1. For changing chiefs
2. Used in abilities like this:

"While I am Chief, every player can put down a suit of 4x SHIELD to form a tribe, regardless of the cards civilisations"

would be interested in your ideas!

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Sat, 01/09/2016 - 05:30
#14
Fhizban
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More Info regarding the ASK

More Info regarding the ASK action:

GO FISH and its german counterpart QUARTETT are different in this aspect and maybe this causes some confusion. In german QUARTETT you actually ask for a specific card and all cards in the set are UNIQUE. Furthermore, in german QUARTETT you only receive ONE card from your opponent, not all matching cards (logically).

in GO FISH you ask for a RANK and receive all cards of the said rank from your opponent (if any).

The design-flaw pointed out previously is actually part of the german QUARTETT, the only difference is that there are ways to continue asking or putting down suits immediately after receiving them.

More brainstorm:

A. either keep it so that you aks for both a SYMBOL and a TRIBE.

B. make it easier to allowing the players to ask for a card featuring a Symbol OR a tribe.

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Sun, 01/10/2016 - 04:59
#15
Fhizban
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Preview of the Print-n-Play

Preview of the Print-n-Play version of Turmoil!

* Reduced to grayscale for easier printing at home
* inverted text colors for easier printing + 20% lighter "colors"
* Card layout and wording more or less complete

Still much work to be done

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18289607/screenshots/pnp-preview.jpg

PS: still no clue how to add inline images

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Sun, 01/10/2016 - 11:08
#16
JewellGames
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Greyscale Preview

Click the image to see the full size version.

Code (Markdown format):

<a href="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18289607/screenshots/pnp-preview.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18289607/screenshots/pnp-preview.jpg" width="100%"></a>

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Sun, 01/10/2016 - 12:13
#17
evansmind244
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Fhizban

The rules are great just a few errors:
THE GAME TURN: 3rd sentence it starts with IS should be IF.
ASK FOR CARD: in the example Wiking should be Viking.
Then you use the word Compromise when describing Tribes 3 times in the rules when I think the word should be COMPRISE.

I like the historical terms with this game so I would go
Archive a Tribe.
Dig for a Card.
Restore the Chief.

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Sun, 01/10/2016 - 14:38
#18
Fhizban
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@JewellGames: Thanks for

@JewellGames: Thanks for pointing that out!

@evansmind244: Thanks, corrected and suggestions noted.

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Mon, 01/11/2016 - 16:26
#19
killerkilroy
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Quartett and asking for cards.

I wasn't familiar with Quartett, but I looked it up. Since it uses a smaller deck, the asking for a specific card option sounds more reasonable than doing so with a standard deck. I could see it working okay in your game, especially as the deck begins to deplete, but the addition of extra decks/expansions really dilutes your chances.

Ideas:
A. Call a tribe or suit. If the response is "yes", call the other variable. If both match gain the card, if either is "no" draw a card - Keeps the specificity of needing both variables, but provides useful(?) information about composition of opponent's hand even on a failure.

B. Call a tribe or suit. Opponent indicates cards in their hand matching the called variable, you choose one at random. - Limits cards you can receive (only get one instead of all), but allows for more successful guesses.

C. Call a tribe or suit, and opponent gives you a card matching that variable of their choice - Same as above, but gives opponent a degree of strategic power (e.g., you call hearts in the hopes of getting a heart-viking, but they give you a heart-alien instead because they know you've been collecting vikings)

Nice cards so far. I would suggest that you change the Indian tribe, either keep the art and change the name to Native American or put a picture of an actual Indian (from the country of India). I think the art is cartoony and cute, but know that using stereotyped images of native people can be problematic in the United States.

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Tue, 01/12/2016 - 09:26
#20
Fhizban
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@killerkilroy thanks for the

@killerkilroy thanks for the suggestions, will change the name of the Indians soon as well.

Give me a week to come up with a new ASK mechanic,

we are also working on replacing it completely with a rock-paper-scissors system

it would change the game quite a lot, but also opens up a lot of mechanics and removes some of the previous problems

but we want to test all variants before finalizing this little gem of a game!

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Sun, 02/21/2016 - 13:08
#21
Fhizban
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Hey guys, Another update from

Hey guys, Another update from my side regarding this project. A lot of things changed, but in it's core the game is still the same (and making good progress). Changes list:

  1. completely revamped the theme (gonna save the other images for another project).
  2. removed most of the special abilities, it just makes the game more complex than it has to be
  3. updated the template once more, adding shiny stuff to it (more or less complete)

I'll go more into detail about the rules if someone is interested!

hmm just noticed an error on the template, one of the grey rings is missing...

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Mon, 02/22/2016 - 14:28
#22
Fhizban
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Turmoil! is now FAYRA, you

Turmoil! is now FAYRA, you can check out the new thread here:

http://www.bgdf.com/node/17550

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