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XP spending issue

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X3M
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Joined: 10/28/2013

Due to some rebalancing of a game. Where health goes from 3 to 5 for all entities. It is only logical that for 1 bonus health. The XP costs goes down to 3/5th of the original costs.

In a sense, the nice round numbers have switched places.

Health for example was
3, 12, 27, 48 and is now
5, 20, 45, 80

But XP costs as examples went down from
60, 100, 120, 180 to
36, 60, 72, 108

While XP score that you can win remain the nice
60, 100, 120, 180
And the other XP spending on damage, range and speed also keep their nice round numbers.

The system with 5 health is more balanced and correct than the previous system. And the game flow is certainly going forward.
So I want to keep the 5 health system.

***

My question is:

0 - Accept these monstrosity of numbers?

Spending is not fun. It also starts to require more calculating powers for the players.

1 - Discard the reduction costs for XP on health?

Not "60%" but "100%" again.
This means I keep the nice round numbers. In comparison to the XP winning.

This also means that players will more likely go for XP spending on damage first. While previously these 2 where balanced with each other. Thus speeding the game up.

But the bad thing about this is that there is an unfair advantage to support units compared to meat units. One XP was supposed to counter the other XP. Players will most likely choose to upgrade support units above any thing else. And choices are removed partially unintentionally.

2 - Not reduce the costs to 60%, but 50% instead?

I have round numbers again. (Unless it is 62,5)

Now players will go for XP spending on health first. Thus slowing the game down. Yet this effect is way less than option 1.

A 20% slower game compared to a 67% faster game.

The unfair advantage is now for the meat units. However, the advancement is less likely to be noticed by math and playability. And players already rather upgraded the weapon systems. So this is a better choice?

3 - Any solution you might have to offer?

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
How does XP is actually

How does XP is actually spent? I have a problem figuring out the problem.

I thought once for dungeon quest that XP tokens could be spent to increase the result of your roll. Not sure if applicable for your game.

Else I like the fibonnaci sequence. Increments of 60% and both previous numbers equals the next number:

30 + 50 = 80
50 + 80 = 130
80 + 130 = 210
etc.

So it could simplify some how computation.

Casamyr
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Joined: 07/28/2008
My question is what is XP

My question is what is XP actually being spent on? It looks like from this that with XP you are buying health.

I think you either need to go a simple route, like the Fibonacci sequence above, so less computation or you need to break every statistic component down from a unit and figure out a point value for it.

1 HP = 3 XP for instance
1 Combat = 2 Xp
1 Def = 4XP

so a Unit with 15 health, 2 combat and 5 Def (a tank) will cost you 71xp.

Once you work out the importance of a statistic and assign it a point value, it will be fairly simple to work out Xp values for every entity in the game and they should be all balanced as they are using the same structure, rather than an arbitrary value placed on it. Of course, you would need to play test to ensure you have got the value correct on each statistic.

X3M
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In this game, you have to

In this game, you have to earn XP.
Then spend in on your units.

XP spending differs per unit since each statistic is different for each unit.

4 things to spend on are:
Health
Damage
Speed
Range

However, the problem is only with the balance between Health and Damage.

***

A simple warrior costs 100 and thus delivers 100 XP to your pool of XP when you kill it.
A stronger warrior costs 120 and will deliver 120 XP to your pool.

When you have enough XP, you can spend it on an unit to increase it's effect.

In my previous version:
Health starts with 3 and has +1.
After 3 levels, it was effectively doubled.

Damage starts with 1 die.
But with each level, you could gain a chance for a re-roll on your d6. And add the new rolled number to what you already had rolled. Each level increased the chance on a re-roll with 1.
After 6 levels, it was effectively doubled.

So the costs for 1 extra health was 100 for the simple warrior and 120 for the stronger warrior.
And the costs for 1 extra damage was 50. Or you could just buy 2 damage levels compared. And for the stronger it was 60.

Effectively, the costs are the same for health and for damage.

If you can gain 100 and spend 100, that would be great. Having to spend 100 while gaining 120 would mean, 4 more kills, and you can spend an extra.
But with 72 to spend, while gaining 100. Things go... a bit awry.

***

Since that I increased the starting health from 3 to 5.
And 1 die would do 1,67 on average instead of 1.

This means that the costs for extra damage remains exactly the same.
But for Health I have a problem. Not 1/3th, but 1/5th is added every level.
Instead of 3 levels, we need 5 levels to double the health.
Yet I want this to cost just as much as doubling the damage.

I either turn the costs from 100/120 to a simple 60/72. Or I have to come up with a different solution.

Now 60 doesn't sound to bad. But there are units that ask 72 now instead of the previous 120.

Players are like, having to safe up and then spend it on a full 5 extra health. Instead of spending it little by little.
Because that requires to do a lot of adding and subtracting.

***

Maybe the trouble isn't that big.

Perhaps I should starting to treat it completely like an extra resource, would be an option now.

Previously, you had to put the XP on the units that where there to witness the kill. And spend it later on if possible. But that is rather chaotic and the chaos is only increasing.

I don't know how players would feel about having someone spend all XP on just 1 unit that is still somewhere safe back home.

X3M
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Joined: 10/28/2013
larienna wrote:How does XP is

larienna wrote:
How does XP is actually spent? I have a problem figuring out the problem.

I thought once for dungeon quest that XP tokens could be spent to increase the result of your roll. Not sure if applicable for your game.

Else I like the fibonnaci sequence. Increments of 60% and both previous numbers equals the next number:

30 + 50 = 80
50 + 80 = 130
80 + 130 = 210
etc.

So it could simplify some how computation.

Actually, yes. They do increase the roll. But you can also increase health.

Meaning that a team of 2 warriors can have 2 specialists. 1 is the tanker, the other one is the damage bringer.

I got most XP spending linear. After doubling your amount, the costs simply increase by 100%.
So in case of your dice rolling. The first 6 levels cost 100%, the second cost 200% and the third cost 300%. etc.

It does get harder and harder to increase your health or damage. But in return, the killing also goes faster.

Fibonnaci can't help me here. Sorry.

X3M
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Casamyr wrote:it will be

Casamyr wrote:
it will be fairly simple to work out Xp values for every entity in the game and they should be all balanced as they are using the same structure, rather than an arbitrary value placed on it. Of course, you would need to play test to ensure you have got the value correct on each statistic.

Well, this has been the case. For almost a year.

And that is why there is a little problem now, since the basic health for each warrior went up from 3 to 5.

I think it is important to know how much XP is worth. When you train a warrior that costs 100. When killed, 100 XP is returned to the killer. A warrior is effective twice as strong when health AND damage is doubled. For this you need 600 XP in total.

For the stronger warrior. You needed to increase health like this:

XP needed for 1 health
120+120+120
+240+240+240
+360+360+360
This was balanced.

But now it looks like this:
72+72+72+72+72
+144+144+144+144+144
+216+216+216+216+216

I am sure any one understands that these XP prices are a bit offset to play with. When your XP income is in the form of 100 and 120.

***

But perhaps I should accept it. Next week I am going to play test with XP being tracked as if it is a resource. Meaning that a player can safe it up and spend it all on their last units that get into the game.

XP spending is right before you can place the new warriors. So when you place new warriors, they will be having 1 round of weakness. That should stop players from placing godlike wall creatures when the enemy is nearby.

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