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# 2D6 and D12

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larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008

In one of my design, I need a greater dice range than 1D6 so I was thinking of using 1D10 or 1D12. The problem is that for print and play games D10 and D12 are less common to find. So I want to use D12 and give the player the option to resolve the rolls with 2D6 instead of D12.

I know that the odds distribution is really different. For example a simple +1 can give up to 6/36 in odds increase while D12 will always give 3/36 odd increase.

I still think it could create an interesting effect.

There is also another pair of dice(don`t remember the name) which gives equal odds between 2-12 by rolling 2d6. That could be another option.

Do you think it cold be interesting to have a system compatible for both type of dice or so you think the odds would be so much different that it would completely change the game?

disaac
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Joined: 02/26/2011
Not quite as straight forward but...

To get the same distribution of 1-12 with two d6, roll one die for it's value, and the second determines if you should add 6 to the first result or not. (evens vs odd)

You could just as easily use a coin for the second random element. Heads add 6 to value of d6, tails use value of d6 unchanged.

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
So it could be done with a D6

So it could be done with a D6 and a D2. Where one of the face on the D2 adds 6 to the first roll.

The D2 could be a die of another color. If you roll even, you add 6. Or it could be a custom die with values 0,0,0,6,6,6.

It is more simple indeed.

Else I have been analyzing the odds. One of the problem is that the more you increment, the less bonus you get.

For example, let say you need to roll 7 or less to succeed. Each dice system 2D6 and 1D12 has the same odds: 21/36.

From there getting a bonus to the dice roll will give differente results

D12: +1= add 3/36 for each bonus.
2D6: +1= add 5/36, +2 = add 4/36, +3= add 3/36

With 2D6, the more bonus you get, the less powerful they are. Personally, it would have preferred the opposite effect, the more bonus you have, the more effective they are because combined together they are better than used individually.

Relexx
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Joined: 05/31/2010
Having not tested this

Having not tested this ...
Have you considered dice like this

1,2,2,3,3,3

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
I know that there is a

I know that there is a special pair of dice designed by somebody I do not remember the name. It's something like "Scheiman dice". I Cannot find the name on google.

I remember that one die had a face with value "8" on it while the other die only had low values.

akanucho
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Joined: 11/10/2009
I think you're referring to

I think you're referring to Sicherman dice. They are a pair of 6-sided dice where one die has the face values {1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4} and the other has {1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8}. Sicherman dice generate the same sums at the same frequencies as standard 2d6 (1/36 chance of 2, 2/36 chance of 3, etc). They do not generate the same results at the same frequencies as a d12 (3/36 chance of 1, 3/36 chance of 2, etc).

Gogolski
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Mimicking 1d12 with 2d6:

This distribution works for mimicking 1d12 with two six sided dice:

1 / 1 / 1 / 3 / 3/ 3
0 / 1 / 4 / 5 / 8 / 9

0 + 1 = 1
1 + 1 = 2
0 + 3 = 3
1 + 3 = 4
4 + 1 = 5
5 + 1 = 6
4 + 3 = 7
5 + 3 = 8
8 + 1 = 9
9 + 1 = 10
8 + 3 = 11
9 + 3 = 12

Cheese!

[EDIT]
1 / 1 / 1 / 2 / 2 / 2
0 / 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10
This works just as well...
[/EDIT]

pelle
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Joined: 08/11/2008
common

If the problem with d10 or d12 is that they are not common enough, is it really a good solution to consider custom dice? Rolling d2 and d6 like suggested already sounds like a much better idea.

Another way to get a larger range of uniform random numbers from standard six-sided dice is to roll one as 10's and the other as 1's, like a d100 but with d6 (a d66?). You get a result from 11 to 66. As long as there are no modifiers or calculations to do on the results it should not be difficult for players to use (otherwise they have to wrap their heads around the concept of base 6). Works great for target numbers (eg "you need to roll 34 or lower to hit"), giving much finer control of the odds than say 2d6.

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Quote:You get a result from

Quote:
You get a result from 11 to 66

Well not exactly, all numbers that ends with a 7 are nonexistent.

------------------------------------

 I posted stuff in the wrong thread.

fecundity
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Anyone who is enough of a

Anyone who is enough of a gamer to be constructing print&play games either already has polyhedral dice or really ought to buy a set anyway. A single d10 or d12 is inexpensive. So I say use d10s or d12s if that's what makes sense for your game.

It only becomes prohibitive if you want to use a fistful of d12s, like a dice pool of a dozen d12s. That is more than reasonable gamers will have handy, and it could be expensive.

larienna
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Joined: 07/28/2008
Quote:A single d10 or d12 is

Quote:
A single d10 or d12 is inexpensive.

Last time I bought D12 (for a dungeon quest variant) it cost me 1\$ CAD per die ... + tax.

According to the print and play production thread on BGG, polyhedral dice are sol 40c each. So I guess that some places in the world the dices are less expensive.

Quote:
It only becomes prohibitive if you want to use a fistful of d12s

The combat system has some similarities with the axis and allies combat system. So yes you need many dices but not necessarily all at the same time. In my point of view, 4 dice per player (max 2P) will be fair enough.

pelle
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Joined: 08/11/2008
larienna wrote:Quote:You get

larienna wrote:
Quote:
You get a result from 11 to 66

Well not exactly, all numbers that ends with a 7 are nonexistent.

Did you miss my mention of "base 6"? :) Still it gives you a nice sequence of 36 ordered results all with equal probability, so, as I said, as long as players do not have to do any arithmetics it should be fine.

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