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Creating card game with multiple winning options

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jedite1000
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So i have changed my game a bit and decided to post my current idea on the first page. Here is what i have so far

GRID:
For the grid both players have their own grid and when joined together forms a large grid. a player side grid is 4x5 and when joined together the grid is 8x5. I decided to make the cards sideways or horizontal. I cheked out Summoner war and i really like how its cards and grid layed out so i decided to incorporate that into my game

LAND:
The land cards will be more or less the same as before.

MONSTERS:
The monsters have changed and not just their layout but some stuff has been added. So to make it easier to determine which monsters can live on which land, the monsters no longer have a subcategory type. such as a fire goblin won't be Goblin-Fire or Humanoid-Fire, it will just be Fire. if the goblin is an undead too then it will be known as Fire/Undead

The monsters will also have other stats such as
Movement= how many the monster can move per turn
Combat type= If the monster is a melee or ranged combat type
Damage type= Each monster has a damage type
atk/hp= Each monster will have MTG style attack stats in the form of 1/1
Weakness= as mentioned earlier each monster has a damage type and when attacking a monster that is weak to your damage, that monster will lose an additional point from their HP
There are no counters to keep track of your monster's HP if you fail to kill a monster on your turn then their HP resets

EVOLVED MONSTERS:
These monsters are special and much stronger than normal Monsters, you can only summon these monsters if you have the required monsters on the grid (Undead monsters require your discard zone instead. Lets say you have a fire golem and a rock golem on the grid, and to play your colossal golem you will need to sacrifice the 2 golems and you can then play your evolved monster

ATTACKS AND POSITIONS:
To attack with your monsters you will need to position your monsters before you can attack. For Melee monsters your target must be adjacent to your melee monsters. Adjacent can be left, top, right and bottom of your melee monster, you cant attack diagonally

For range monsters, you can only attack 2 spaces in front of your range monster, you cannot attack a monster if its in melee range of your card and you cant attack if the monster is 3 spaces apart. Also if any monster including your own monster is blocking your range attack, you can't attack your target.

As for the movement, your monsters can move to an empty space, however you cant move if a monster is blocking your path and also you cannot move diagonally

WIN CONDITIONS:
There are multiple win conditions and they are
Both players have 5 crystals line up at the bottom of your grid field, each crystal is adjacent to a grid space. If you are in range of one of the crystals you can attack a crystal and destroy it (it requires 2 hits to destroy a crystal) If you destroy all 5 crystals you win the game

Another way to win is to kill evolved monsters, these monsters are strong and require a good number of monsters to kill it, if you kill an evolved monster then the opponent will lose 1 crystal automatically if there are no more crystals on the field you win the game

Another way to win is to force your opponent to destroy all their inhabitant monsters. If the opponent runs out of cards to draw, they will need to make do with what they have in their hand and field, if they have no more monsters on the field you win the game

Quote:
While taking a break from my main card game project i decided on a simple side project, I know the theme is not important for an early stage development, but i like having a clear vision on what my theme will be about.

anyway so far my idea is having a deck building game where you can pre-construct your deck but with limitations such as only certain cards can go in a certain deck. So here is what i have so far...

So for the board layout, there will be discard and monster deck zones of course but also additional deck zones. 1 a core deck, kind of like a resource deck and another deck of strong monsters. So you have a deck of strong and a deck of weak monsters. The weak monsters is what you will be drawing most of the time.

You also have a main card kind of like a boss card. this will be called land card or something, each land cards will be different, the land cards also linked with your weak monster deck and each land will have different health which will be called population, lets say you have a fire land card, you can only use cards that relate to fire such as fire, earth and rock monsters (it will be listed on the land card). And here is one way to win, lets say the land you are using has 50 population, that means you will only allow to have 50 weak monsters in your deck, and once you run out of cards in your deck you lose.

The strong monsters do not count towards the population limit and ill explain what these monsters will do later

As i mentioned before, the core cards are a separate deck and if your weak monster is killed on the field you send that monster to the discard and replace that monster with a core card and place it on the field where the monster got killed. So to play your strong monsters, you need to discard core cards from your field to play strong monsters, you dont need to draw strong monsters u can just search the strong monster deck. Lets say a strong monster has a requirement of 3 cores, you send 3 cores from your field to play your strong monster

(i haven't decided if the cores should be just one thing or have multiple cores such as fire core water core etc and each monster requires certain cores to play)

Another winning victory is tied to the strong monsters, at the start of the game you have a total of 5 crystals or life force whatever (these will just be meeples or counters or coins whatever) anyway if a strong monster on your field is killed, you will lose a crystal, once all 5 crystals are gone, you lose the game

The monster cards will have stats like 1/1 which is 1 atk and 1 hp, kind of like magic. Dunno if weak monsters should have effects or not and are just fodder for the strong monsters, dunno if that is ideal or not. strong monsters will have effects though, and there will be no keeping track of health from monsters, if you failed to kill a monster on your turn then their hp and atk goes back to normal.

I havnt decided how many monsters you can have on the field either, and how the monsters can attack

well that is what i have so far

questccg
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Think about IF someone can make it FIRST!

jedite1000 wrote:
...anyway so far my idea is having a deck building game where you can pre-construct your deck but with limitations such as only certain cards can go in a certain deck. So here is what i have so far...

TBH I didn't read the entire post. As soon as I read "certain cards can go in a certain deck"... I immediately "discarded" and ignored the rest of the thread. And why I did this is because I have been working with manufacturers over 2 months now concerning my "Trading Card Game" (TCG) "Monster Keep" (MK).

MK has a rather SIMPLE distribution for a random booster: 15 cards with various commonalities of cards. And TBH (again) it is rather complicated to get EVEN that. That is why once I had a BASIC idea behind MK, I knew I had to see IF I could FIND someone who can MAKE the game.

Simply put, statements like "certain cards can go in a certain deck" are NOT feasible for Manufacturers. If you plan to go LCG style, basically EVERYONE has the SAME deck of cards. If you go TCG (like me), you will have a HARD time finding people to do a "more or less randomized distribution of cards". It ain't easy even when it's just a question of randomization.

Your idea while it might seem cool to you, doesn't sound feasible to MAKE. So that's why I ignored the remainder of the post because you have to be realistic when it comes to making the game possible. Do you understand how SUPER HARD it is for printers to "exclude some cards" and "combine others" when printing???

My distribution ALSO seemed simple (and yes I've found a couple manufacturers capable of my order):

  • 4 Common cards
  • 3 Uncommon cards
  • 2 Rare cards
  • 1 Mythic card
  • 5 Random Spell cards

Total of 15 cards per booster. Each booster is directly playable for 1 player.

Seems simple right? Well in terms of manufacturing IT IS NOT. The whole "common/uncommon/rare/mythic" rarity in "random" picks is a challenge. The manufacturer I have found has produced OTHER TCGs and that's why I feel confident that they can produce my order.

But when you start saying "grouping of cards" to be combined together... And not always... It makes me think the easiest route would be "LCG" with various boosters. Like Race #1, Race #2, Race #3 ... etc. BUT the problem with this is it is going to COST a serious amount. Offset printing would be too costly and your repeatable quantities (MOQ) are too low.

Digital printing may be a possibility. Like maybe 500 boosters per Race. But you are going to have to FIND a printer capable of making such an order. And remember the printing has to be identical of each PACK (in the LCG format). The only possible distinction is that your have 4 or 5 different PACKS.

So while your idea may be interesting, you need to focus on balancing between IDEAs and REALITY (production). In MK, I have designed all 20 unique Spells. I have not begun Monsters, because I want to be sure I have a manufacturer that can MAKE the game. We are still in discussion over Add-On content.

It's not ONLY about Game Making... It's about understand what CAN and CANNOT be done from a printer's POV.

Cheers and good luck. Just trying to help you focus on what is important and the fine line you will need to follow (marrying ideas with feasibility).

jedite1000
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Quote:TBH I didn't read the

Quote:
TBH I didn't read the entire post. As soon as I read "certain cards can go in a certain deck"... I immediately "discarded" and ignored the rest of the thread.

I would have liked it if you read all my post, as I found that comment to be a bit rude as i usually like reading your comments but it felt like Im wasting my time and my ideas didn't mean anything on this forum

polyobsessive
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Misunderstanding, I think

jedite1000 wrote:
Quote:
TBH I didn't read the entire post. As soon as I read "certain cards can go in a certain deck"... I immediately "discarded" and ignored the rest of the thread.

I would have liked it if you read all my post, as I found that comment to be a bit rude as i usually like reading your comments but it felt like Im wasting my time and my ideas didn't mean anything on this forum

I think QuestCCG seems to have understood your design to have been based on a manufacturing process and fixated on that.

It looks to me like the "certain cards can go in a certain deck" thing is you are planning deck construction restrictions rather than thinking about how the game is manufactured/distributed? Are you talking here about separating the weak and strong monsters and the core cards?

Are the core cards a shared resource for the players, or do they have their own core decks?

What are on the core cards? Are they just resources, or do they do something else?

Could this game be played with just the three decks shared between players, so it is not a constructed deck game, and so can just be picked up and played with minimal preparation? (In other words, is there a reason the decks need to be constructed before play?)

It occurs to me that you might be able to playtest the concept using Magic: The Gathering cards, separated into different piles (weak creatures, strong creatures, core/land) and adding a rule to upgrade weak to strong cards. It wouldn't quite be your game, but it might give you a feel for whether or not the concept works.

Good luck...

jedite1000
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well i guess i might have

well i guess i might have jumped the gun a bit, though through my thought progress i did not even consider the marketing aspect of the game, I always think little steps at a time and marketing is always the last thing i think about it, people seem to get confused when i talk about deck limitation and certain cards in certain deck, they all assume its a marketing strategy like a tcg, but not all deck pre-constructed deck building is related to tcg. All the cards should be available to mix and match and only then i can release expansions or a small booster set. but i always start a starter deck first.

I should probably be clearer with the limitation i was going for, the boss cards i mentioned are like lands that can be used with certain cards. ill give you 2 examples, lets say 1 land card is called flame land or something stupid like, all monster cards have some type of archetype such as fire, water, air etc.

With flame land only cards that have fire, earth and rock attributes can only use that land card but, there could be another one called hot spring land, and cards such as water, fire, earth and grass or whatever can only be in that deck, so you see, fire can be in 2 types of decks and not just restricted to flame land. That is what i was going for with the mixing of elements to form your own unique deck.

As for the cores, i have not thought too much of it, it was just an idea, i dunno if the players would share the core deck or not or even if it has different type of core cards.. its still early progress

polyobsessive
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I'd give it a try!

Sounds like there is some interesting play to be had there, so I'd want to throw together a minimal prototype to try it out and see if you the concept holds up. You don't need all the features/factions/etc available at first, but the spending resources/"land" to get creatures, then upgrading those creatures to bigger ones, and having some sort of battle mechanism is probably something you can make a toy version of pretty easily, especially if you can borrow cards from another game!

wob
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hi. i think you have the

hi.
i think you have the basis of a decent game here. have you considered the preset deck idea ie the "flame deck" that comes with the flame land card and all the monsters that live there?
also i would look again at your first victory condition. if my land card is 10 hp and my opponent has 20 hp i am at a huge disadvantage from the start. of course you could balance that by giving weaker lands more monsters, cheaper cores etc (have fun balancing that). doing this would lend itself more to premade decks as you can control the balance better.

jedite1000
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yeah i could balance it a

yeah i could balance it a bit, top of my head an insect land with 50 cards but you required to play 2 monsters each turn while another land when monster is killed it drops 2 cores instead of 1..but yeah a lot of balancing if i need it to work

questccg
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Exactly!

polyobsessive wrote:
...I think QuestCCG seems to have understood your design to have been based on a manufacturing process and fixated on that.

It looks to me like the "certain cards can go in a certain deck" thing is you are planning deck construction restrictions rather than thinking about how the game is manufactured/distributed? Are you talking here about separating the weak and strong monsters and the core cards?

Are the core cards a shared resource for the players, or do they have their own core decks?

What are on the core cards? Are they just resources, or do they do something else?

Could this game be played with just the three decks shared between players, so it is not a constructed deck game, and so can just be picked up and played with minimal preparation? (In other words, is there a reason the decks need to be constructed before play?)...

Whatever the FORMAT you choose, be it Starter Decks, Random Booster Packs, Fixed Booster Packs, you are going to run into a problem IF you require "certain cards to be present when ANOTHER card(s) is present".

If you use a Starter Deck and you make them ALL the SAME, that is a LCG format and would allow you to PRE-CONFIGURE contents for a DECK. So picture a "core" of cards, maybe like 30 or so... which are MARRIED to a Race (for example only). Then you would want to add RANDOM "Boosters" with maybe a requirement that 2 random boosters (15 cards each) get added to the 30 card "core" and then you get 60 cards — A configured deck with some restrictions!

How you "could" do it is EACH "Race" (as per my example) in the 30 card "core" Starter Decks have a different Faction Color on the "cardback". making 30 cards "Green" and 30 cards "Brown" (booster ones). Then it's rather EASY to "count" 30 cards (for one Race — as in my example).

This could be possible. But again, I just wanted YOU to think about HOW you are going to implement your ideas. So it would be a BLEND of LCG (Fixed Starter Decks) and TCG (Random Boosters).

I don't know if this IS how you will structure the IDEA. This is just one example about HOW it could be made. I didn't mean for my other comment to sound rude, I just wanted you to respond with a way of IMPLEMENTING your idea(s).

As far as I can see, this is the only way to have "core" cards + extras. But maybe you have a more novel way of doing it.

Note: If everyone needs a "core", you could start with designing 2 "core" Starter Kits. Humans vs. Orcs, Angels vs. Demons, etc. And then you could ADD to it the random boosters.

This could be your BASIC "pledge": 1 "core" + 2 Random Boosters.

Then you could up-sell the game with things like:

  • 1 "core" + 4 Random Boosters
  • 1 "core" + 6 Random Boosters
  • 2 "cores" + 4 Random Boosters
  • 2 "cores" + 6 Random Boosters

etc... Otherwise I am unsure how you will get the combination of "fixed" (certain cards) with "random" cards (boosters).

Does this sound like a possible avenue??? Cheers!

questccg
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The only issue is...

The potential problem I can see is "investment" in MAKING the game.

So you would have 2 "core" Starter Decks that are identical for everyone.

Let's assume (as above) that each Starter has 30 cards. You're going to need 60 unique cards. Not the worst, maybe you can reduce this a bit by having some duplicates in BOTH Starters... TBD.

Now the issue comes down to the "Random Boosters".

You're going to need a minimum of 100 unique cards. Again does this mean duplicates too(!?) So maybe 50 unique pieces of art.

So that means you need about 100 unique pieces of artwork.

Because it's a BLEND of TCG/LCG it's a pretty COSTLY venture. I'd say maybe $10,000 USD just for the artwork ALONE! (Ooohh — Ouch that's very expensive). So you have another roadblock which is ARTWORK.

100 Illustrations is pretty AVERAGE too... But consider it's an LCG/TCG combo and all you've required is 100 pieces of original art. Not too bad... but a bit on the "expensive" side!

questccg
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Another issue is...

Offset vs. Digital printing. Offset is to be used with "quantities > 999" units. Digital printing is to be used with "quantities < 500". So while your Starter Decks are "Fixed", you'd probably need to go digital ... because I doubt you get 1,000 of each Starter Deck (so upwards of 2,000 backers).

The boosters, like my own game "Monster Keep" (MK), you'll have to find someone who is willing to do the order. But most probably "offset" printing because you'll get more than 1,000 boosters.

Just things that I am working through to ensure that my project is feasible.

Best!

questccg
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What you may be able to do...

Your "Fixed" Starter Decks... They could ALL have 30 cards. But the amount of "weak" monsters present in a "Race" Deck could vary. You could also include "Take-That" cards among the 30 cards.

So "Humans" could be:

  • 1 Land + 25 "weak" units + 4 Instants (Take-That).

Where "Orcs" could be:

  • 1 + 20 "weak" units + 9 Instants (Take-That).

Your "Random" Booster Packs could have "strong" monsters + better Instants which are all randomized. You could set a rarity (but remember I'm going through this and it is very challenging... to make).

Just an idea I had when I read you want to VARY the AMOUNT of "weak" units per "Race" (as per my example).

Cheers!

jedite1000
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Thnx, hiring an artist won’t

Thnx, hiring an artist won’t be a problem since I’ll do all the artwork myself, so it won’t cost me anything in that department. Like I guess it’s still possible to have unique decks even if it’s a living card game. Like it will be a lot of work but I could have like 1000 weak monsters in different types in one box and players can choose a land then chose 50 cards or so for their weak monster deck, then I guess random boosters could be good for new strong monsters or new cards. Since you have a lot of cards to choose from you won’t need booster packs and only get one if you want new monsters

questccg
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Alternatively

Instead of having 15 card Random Boosters, you could go with 10 card Random Boosters. This might be MORE "flexible" for you game.

Then you could have "Race Deck" (Starter) = 30 Fixed cards.

+ 3x 10 Random cards (Booster) = +30 Random cards = 60 cards for 1 Deck.

Then you could vary the amount of boosters like:

+ 4x, 5x, 6x 10 Random cards (Booster).

or 2x "Race Decks" (Starters) = 30 Fixed cards x2 = 60 Fixed cards.

+ 6x 10 Random cards (Boosters) = +30 Random cards x2 = +60 Random cards = 120 cards for 2 Decks.

Again just some ideas. I find once you have a "concept" in mind, it's valuable to figure out HOW you are going to make it a REALITY.

These are just some of my rambling thoughts... Cheers!

questccg
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Ah I see now... 1 giant box. Interesting...

Figure out the MINIMUM you need. 1,000 weak monsters is a LOT! If you want like 50 per Land, well then maybe do 75 unique per Land. This means you would use 2/3 of the cards for ONE (1) Land.

So that would mean 150 cards for two (2) Lands. That's ALREADY a GOOD size for "a card game".

You can maybe "spice it up" by having four (4) Lands and therefore 300 cards!!! That could be like a 4 player experience. Can your game handle more than 2 players???

If NOT, well then it adds "variability" and "replayability" too (to have 4 Lands).

You really don't need 1,000 weak monsters. Like I said 75 per Land is enough... And for 4 Players that's like 300 cards in total.

Like you said "Boosters" can be "optional"... But maybe for "strong" monsters ... it could be a GOOD PITCH and selling item! I can just picture people reading "Strong Monsters come in Random Boosters of 10 cards"... You'd make a killing! LOL

Cheers... Sorry if you thought my first message was "rude"... I just wanted to know how you planned on structuring the game.

jedite1000
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No it’s fine, it’s all

No it’s fine, it’s all good.

1000 was just a random number, the hell im creating 1000 monsters lol

I will just start with creating the land card, figure out it’s effects. Then create monsters for that land then strong monsters, once I have like 10 or so I move on to another land and monsters. Once I have enough I can test it on tts

But yeah it’s still early in development and it’s just an idea right now and no development yet.

Like I know people like to think of the big picture like how they are going to produce and release it early in their development but I like to take it slow and worry about that stuff later.

Right not I’ll just focus on it being a 2 player game dunno how more players will work

Right now it’s just for me and friends to play, if people think it had potential then I can think about the marketing strategy.

The game crafter does my prototyping anyway

I also know art is not important too but My artstyle will be pixel based like 8 bit sprites

questccg
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TGC makes things seem EASY!

jedite1000 wrote:
...The game crafter does my prototyping anyway...

Believe it or not, The Game Crafter (TGC) does a LOT of stuff NORMAL printers don't do. For example the "boosters". Much harder to find a printer that will make those. However on TGC it's just easy to create a "booster" pack as a game, add the cards, choose the randomization and voila you've got "boosters"!

What you could do, along with your Big Box of cards, is add maybe 5 boosters to a box. And LEAVE it at that. The boosters could not be bought separately and each game box is "unique" in a sort of way!

So you'd have like a box for 2 players, 150 "core" units and 50 "extra cards" (+5 boosters) which could be "strong" units + better Action cards. So 200 cards in total... Which comprises A GAME.

This could be COOL. Since each box will probably be UNIQUE and make cards RARE (IRL not card commonalities). Anyways just some other ideas, now that I better understand what you are trying to achieve...

Sometimes it's difficult to understand UNLESS you have an idea HOW someone plans to "structure" their game (even if it's not final).

Cheers!

jedite1000
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That’s a good idea, tgc can

That’s a good idea, tgc can probably allow you to add booster packs to an already boxed game

jedite1000
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Just had an idea, what do

Just had an idea, what do people feel about action points. Like every turn a player gets to spend action points. Such as draw a card requires 1 action then playing a card requires another. Maybe attack can be another but depending if I’ll allow the game to have lots of monsters on the field at a time since you won’t be able to attack with every card

questccg
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Action Points (APs) vs. Roles

jedite1000 wrote:
Just had an idea, what do people feel about action points. Like every turn a player gets to spend action points. Such as draw a card requires 1 action then playing a card requires another. Maybe attack can be another but depending if I’ll allow the game to have lots of monsters on the field at a time since you won’t be able to attack with every card

Just wanted to say that... to me (anyways), it seems like you would be better off choosing a "Role" instead of "Action Points" (APs). Why?

Well it seems like you are "unsure" about using 1 AP to allow you to attack with "?" units.

In the case of a "Role", it grants you the ability to perform ACTIONS related to that role. So if you choose (IDK) "Pit Boss", this now means that you can ATTACK on that turn (e.g.: Your ACTION).

Going back to the APs. If you have like 5 APs per turn, you could LIMIT each Attack to COST 1 AP and therefore at maximum you could attack with 5 units. Other actions cost APs too, like drawing a card from your Deck into your Hand (1 AP). Playing a card from your Hand into your Area of Play could cost too (1 AP).

I personally think APs are easier to "design" for. But in practice, I feel that "Roles" work better once players become more accustomed to the game. In "TradeWorlds" we have ten (10) "Roles" and they work very well. Sure when players first PLAY the game, they find that ten (10) "Roles" is a lot to "take in" and understand... But 10 to 15 minutes into the game, most players understand the roles and are experienced enough to understand when to use what role...

Just some "food for thought"!

jedite1000
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Is there a difference between

Is there a difference between roles and action points?

Also what would be a good field limit, like how many monsters should I have on field at once

questccg
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jedite1000 wrote:Is there a

jedite1000 wrote:
Is there a difference between roles and action points?

The difference between "Roles" and "Action Points" (APs) is that with "Roles" you have to define a TURN-ORDER. With APs, you just spend APs according to what it is you want to do on your turn. So the turn-order with APs is VARIABLE.

For "Roles", let's say your TURN-ORDER looks like this:

1. Draw +2 cards from your Deck
2. Select a Role and perform that Action.
3. Discard cards over your Hand Limit.

With "APs", it would be more OPEN and look like this:

1. Use 1 AP for each card you want to Draw from your Deck.
2. Use 1 AP for each card you want to Play from your Hand into your Play Area.
3. Use 1 AP for each unit you want to Control on your turn.

But there is NO ORDER. You just "spend" APs as you see fit.

jedite1000 wrote:
Also what would be a good field limit, like how many monsters should I have on field at once

Well it depends if you have a "formation" or not. Like if you want to have lines of attackers (a bit like Gwent), you could have:

3 Melee Attackers (Front line)
2 Ranged Attackers (Secondary line)
1 Overlord (Tertiary line)

And in this case you would have 6 units. Talking about your Multiple Winning Conditions... I added the "Overlord" because, instead of being the PLAYER who is an "invisible" force, you could actually have a UNIT in that spot.

If the Overlord is defeated, the opponent WINS the game (for example).

This is just an example... You could setup maybe another version:

3 Melee Attackers (Primary line)
2 Ranged Attackers (Secondary line)

And in this case you would have 5 units only.

In "Monster Keep" (MK) I limit the number of Monsters to 5. But there exists a Spell which is an "Enchantment" that allows you to have a +1 Bonus Monsters in Play and therefore up to 6 Monsters...

Magic: the Gathering does NOT impose a limit on the number of Creatures you can summon. It is restricted with Mana which Creatures you can play on a turn... You must have SUFFICIENT Mana or make do with the Mana you have and use Creatures to best optimize your use of Mana...

Note: I don't know how it is done in Pokemon... I've never played. But truth be told, I've never played Magic either. It's just that I have "researched" Magic extensively and have a clearer idea about how that game is played.

I have played ONE (1) game of Yu-Gi-Oh! ... I don't remember much. It was kind of dull to play. And I lost the game, after dealing a lot of damage but was defeated by some "super-combo" move which forced me to discard cards from my area of play, making it HARD for me to attack "stronger" units.

That's something that "concerns" me with TCGs and CCGs: the Deck-Building aspect. Some people will LOVE it and other will IGNORE the game BECAUSE OF IT. Like IF you don't understand HOW to use your Deck... How can you expect to play a game with it. It's much too hard to EXPLAIN how a deck was constructed.

MK alleviates this because the Decks are "Micro" Decks: there are ONLY 15 cards. 5 of which are Spells and 10 which are Monsters. So you basically need to "examine" your 15 cards, figuring out what kind of Monsters you have that the Spells complement. Much easier than trying to understand HOW a 60 card deck is meant to be used...

jedite1000
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hhmm that formation gave me

hhmm that formation gave me an idea. what about some kind of grind field, not a too big of a grid but enough for the monsters to get around

The weak monsters can move around by how many spaces they can move, ill have stat by how many that monster can move per turn. having that for the weak monsters can make them more unique instead of them being just fodder for a strong monster even if they won't have special abilities and only have 1/1 or 2/2 atk/hp stat, having these weak monsters have move limit stats can make them more unique, they can also have damage types too so, each monster can be weaker to a certain element

and i could have a range and melee monsters like range can attack from afar but cannot attack melee units that is 1 grid away from them while melee can attack afar but can attack right in front of them

As for the overlord monsters, you suggested, i could make them the strong monsters but they will only play played on their own zone, they dont move but can still do stuff or have them as a backline the only monster, so lets say the grid is like 4x6, the strong monsters can only move horizontally to any of the 4 spaces at the back row but they can attack in melee and range, so if you want to kill them your melee have to reach them or your range can kill them

and they can be summoned like it was before when weak monsters are killed you place a core card on that grid zone, players cant move onto that zone if a core is on it. when you have enough cores you can remove them from the field and play your strong monster at the back grids of the field. As for win condition, i could make it that once that strong monster is summoned if killed the opponent wins but if i want to have it so you can play multiple strong monsters per game then the game could go longer and each strong monster killed is 1 point and 5 points you win

It all depends if i make it so the player has to choose only 1 strong monster per game or they can play 5 strong monsters (1 on the field at a time though). If it is just 1 strong monster per game, im worried it may ruin the deck building process, like yeah you have a small deck of strong monsters but you have to think hard and decide which strong monster will benefit you the most that game. A player might just have only 1 strong monster in their strong monster deck since they think its the only monster they want to use

i would like people to still choose a strong monster from its deck instead of just having 1 monster in the deck

Like there probably is a game like this out there, i just hope my additions make the game a little more unique with multiple win conditions

i still like the idea of having a land card act as a deck theme, and the population is determined by the land card's ability

It will require a lot of balance but i hope i can make it work

Also if i go down this grid route, the land cards can have better abilities such as a land could have less population than normal but each monster can move an additional 2 spaces or something

questccg
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I have an IDEA you MAY like...

This whole "weak" vs. "strong" Monsters sounds a bit SILLY to me. But there is a real CONCRETE application for this:

Monster EVOLUTION! (Ooohh)

Yeah... I believe Pokemon does something similar. But instead of having "strong" Monsters... You could have a SIDE-DECK of up to 5 "Monster Evolutions".

Which means that IF you have "?" Monsters required to EVOLVE into a Bad-Boy, Kick-@ss, Strong Monster... You can MERGE the cards together and get an evolved version!

I LIKE this because not many games do this... And it could give your game a distinctive FLAVOR.

You could EXPLAIN the game quickly: each player has a SIDE-DECK of up to 5 "Monster Evolutions". Players LOOK at their Evolved versions and then build a deck accordingly. SIMPLE. And FAIR.

Like if one of your "Evolutions" is the "Black Haired Yeti" and you need a "White Snowman" + "Black Panther" = "Black Haired Yeti" ... You understand which cards you need. So you add 4 Snowmen and 4 Panthers to your Deck...

This kind of "Deck Construction" is GOOD. Because everyone can understand HOW it is done. It's not like figuring out the best Aggro deck or an optimized Control deck which are all complicated and TOUGH to understand.

EVOLVING "Monsters" can be easily understood as the combination of 2 or more Monsters in Play... And you can only have maybe 5 of these Super-Bad-Boys available in each game.

Just some additional ideas... Cheers!

jedite1000
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So I guess just having

So I guess just having monsters on the field is enough requirement to evolve those monsters into a strong monster? So you don’t think I need a core system?

Yeah I could have it like what you suggested

This way the strong or evolved monsters have a more purpose. Though they could still have a weakness like if u kill 1 evolved monster u win or depending how easy these monsters can be summoned I could make it kill 5 to win

made quick mock-up picture on the top of the thread.. fire-horse

questccg
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Looks like a lot of FUN (actually)!

jedite1000 wrote:
So I guess just having monsters on the field is enough requirement to evolve those monsters into a strong monster? So you don’t think I need a core system?

Yeah I could have it like what you suggested

This way the strong or evolved monsters have a more purpose. Though they could still have a weakness like if u kill 1 evolved monster u win or depending how easy these monsters can be summoned I could make it kill 5 to win

made quick mock-up picture on the top of the thread.. fire-horse

I like the Mock-Up ... Looks FUN (actually)! With the "Evolution Deck", "Land", "Grid" and "Deck"... It like it because it is DIFFERENT... And you have a pretty Powerful, yet Simple way to "build your deck" around your Evolution Deck!

jedite1000
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glad you like it :) I'll give

glad you like it :) I'll give it a test run, ill build a fire deck, ill create the land effect and monsters and see how it plays

Also what would be a decent grid size for my game?

questccg
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Cool beans...

jedite1000 wrote:
glad you like it :) I'll give it a test run, ill build a fire deck, ill create the land effect and monsters and see how it plays

Let me know how it goes!

jedite1000 wrote:
Also what would be a decent grid size for my game?

You'll probably need to playtest to figure out the most appropriate size. I can't just say off the "top of my head".

questccg
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Also...

The cool thing about TCGs and CCGs is the "Deck Construction". But there are PROBLEMS with "Deck Construction".

1. If you are NEW, you won't have ANY idea about what cards to use. REAL BAD. So bad, most "new players" will NOT play a TCG or CCG.

2. If you are DUELING, and your opponent has MORE experience, it's a REAL TURN-OFF to play against such an opponent. The odds of winning are slim because your opponent has had the time to construct an "all-powerful" deck.

3. If you use a pre-constructed deck, a NEW player still won't know the abilities of that deck unless they spend an hour consulting the entire deck and trying to understand each and every card to see how they work together.

All in all... IT's TERRIBLE. That's why TCGs and CCGs FAIL. Well the REAL reason is because "there are not enough players". And as I have explained Casual Gamers won't TRY it knowing they will most probably lose a game to someone who has spent countless hours fine-tuning his/her deck.

That's why I think the whole "Evolution Deck" and building a deck "around it" allows for ALL GAMERS (casual to hardcore) to have an equal chance at building a reasonable deck. It's SIMPLE too. Even KIDS can play with a reasonable amount of odds of WINNING.

Anyhow let me know how the playtests go...

jedite1000
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I did a quick playtest on

I did a quick playtest on tts, though not a real game but to see how the monsters move around the board and stuff

unless i change the movement limit to give range less movement and melee more movement, the range just seems to outplay the melee, like the range can kill the melee before the melee has a chance to attack. so ive made it that the range can only attack 2 spaces apart and not the whole board, so if there is a blank space between the melee and the range, then the range can attack the melee, and to make it more unpredictable i might have it the monsters move any direction so they can move up down, left, right and even diagonal but the monsters cant attack diagonal and only can attack horizontal or vertical.

Im also trying to figure out the role and or ap system. Like on your turn, you draw a card next you play a card then you enter battle mode where you use action points to move and attack, each monster has its own action points, so with that, each monster comes with 5 ap to spend, and probably depending on the monster, if the monster has a movement of 3, you spend 1 ap then you can move up to 3 spaces, and since you spent only 1 ap you have 4 left and if you want to attack with that monster, it could require you to spend 2 ap to attack..again depending on the monster's power.

But i then feel that the monsters are too restricted, so i might not do that

questccg
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So what WORKED???

Maybe if you look at it from the opposite "perspective", you can see what WORKS and then fine-tune what doesn't work(!?)

Some general questions:

1. How big do you want your Evolution Deck to be? (in terms of cards)

2. How many cards in your Draw Deck?

3. How long do you want the game to last?

Establishing some "goals" may HELP to better define things too. I know you are going to say "How does that matter???" Well it does and doesn't. Deck size gives you an overall duration and will help determine Deck Construction rules.

The Evolution Deck size will also help in determining the strategy behind making that deck.

Maybe work these out first... And then we can see what works with regards to the Tactile issues.

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