Creature combat mechanic card game

I just wanted to point out that Gamers (Adult ones) don't really like the randomness of dice rolling. I know you have one (1) die and it can be standard 1d6 (1 to 6) which you can "tailor" to the various cards, like rolling a "1" can be a critical for a "Pixie" for example...

But the plain fact of the matter is Adult (18+) gamers HATE rolling dice. For them it's like the end of the world type of scenario... How do I know this? Well I had a thread (poll) over at BGG and asked what gamers thought of the two (2) games that I am working on. One of them featured dice rolling as a way of varying the the amount of cards being drawn.

The point I am trying to make is that the die 1d6 (which was custom 1 to 3 values) still annoyed many of the BGG Gamers. Most said things like: "Can't you just remove the die and make it 3 cards per turn???" Suggestions as to how to REMOVE the randomness of play.

Anyways this is a long way of saying: MANY, MANY, MANY Gamers HATE games that use dice in them. They dislike the randomness and also dislike having to roll the dice every turn...

Just something you should be aware of...

This sounds a bit like Magic's Commander Style of Play. It is also like a test version of "Monster Keep" (MK) where you would choose ONE (1) Monster and equip him with all kinds of weapons and items to defeat his opponent.

Rest assured, that version did NOT last. After watching some videos about HOW people play a game which is similar... I found the game play to be a bit boring. So I had been thinking something similar.

But I abandoned the "Leader" concept and am focusing on a "three (3) Lane" approach since for MK it offers more possibilities and can be played in a rather short span in time (10 to 15 minutes).

My MAIN reason to "Abandon" the "Leader" concept was because I saw another CCG that did EXACTLY what I wanted to do... And realized that this format is not fun at all. Maybe your game can make this "Leader" concept more enjoyable.

Your idea about using APs is a valid one. But I feel like FOUR (4) is a bit arbitrary. Why not FIVE (5)??? Usually people like more balanced numbers like 1, 3 and 5 ... And favor odd numbers (IDK why ... it's just true).

You have 4 APs or 5 APs... Which seems more "balanced"? Five (5), Right?!

But generally speaking, your thoughts on APs sounds pretty reasonable. Nothing about what you wrote strikes me as "bad" or "unreasonable"...

You can also INTRODUCE a "NEW" type of card: BONUS APs. Things like: "Frenzy: +1 APs this turn only, discard after use" or something similar.

Of course that kind of Ability can be an Icon and given "Frenzy" can give bonus APs to a player...

So that sounds very cool!

No worries, I just wanted you to benefit from my own experiences.

I believe the way to get around this is like in Magic, TradeWorlds and many other "card-based" games: you have a ATTACK and a DEFENSE. This sets up a duality: your opponent may have STRONG "defense" and you have poor "attack" meaning he can't be beaten and a similar case for yourself.

That's why cards in Magic like +1 Attack or +1/+1 Atk and Dfs... Are designed.

The idea is NOT to restrict to ONE (1) thing per turn. You should be able to PLAY a creature from your hand and be able to battle with others (if you have summoning-sickness), etc. The idea if APs is offering CHOICE. It's not a good idea to JUST do "X" on a turn... That will lead to a longer "game time" and this may not be a side-effect that you want for your game.

Let's say you actions are:

1> Ready (ready a creature for combat by playing it from your had)

2> Attack (use one of your creatures to attack an opposing one)

3> Defend (forcibly ensure that a specific creature cannot be attacked)

4> Incubate (as you mentioned earn tokens to upgrade a creature)

That's what I got from the OP. In the Common Draft Deck there are 5 of each of these cards (so a total of 20 cards to draft from).

You don't need dice, you don't need Action Points (APs)... All you need is a shared common Deck of 20 cards which players draft from.

What this does is determine how a player will REACT to the opponent's draft selection. Like if Player #1 drafts an "Attack", Player #2 can draft a "Defend" to counter the potential attack when it occurs.

This would greatly improve the fluidity of the game and make it LESS "random" and more of a Drafting Mechanic using the 6 card draft...

Again this is only ONE (1) idea to resolve dice and APs. And by getting rid of both, you can use a SIMPLE but effective drafting mechanic which allows for predictable chaos! (LOL)

I have to comment on dice.
Adult gamers don't inherently hate dice. There are countless successful games that use and even revolve around dice.
I think adult players tend to dislike dice in card games because they add an additional layer of randomness on top of the random card draw.
That being said, I think the problem lies in randomness that can't be mitigated rather than a problem inherent to dice.
For example, if you had a card game in which players just draw and play the top card of their deck every turn, it would feel extremely random. This is mitigated in most card games by allowing players to draw a number of cards, and select the best one to play from among those.
Similar strategies can be used with dice.
Dice in a card game CAN work and benefit the game when designed and incorporated well.
I'd recommend taking a look at an older CCG called 'Warlord' which uses D20s for attacks, as well as the newer game Ashes: rise of the phoenixborn which I believe uses dice for the turn's resources (not amount, just type).

I will say though, I very much dislike roll a D6, 4+ succeeds mechanics in any game. Because its 50/50, I feel like I can't weigh the odds or mitigate my chances. If you want a simple roll for success, I'd recommend 2D6 with modifiers. The bell-curve provided with 2D6 is a great one for allowing players to weigh their chances.
For example, creatures could have attack/defense modifiers to the die roll, and you could even have cards that provide modifiers to a roll, allowing players to decide which attacks are most important, etc.

I just wanted to reinforce your post, NomadArtisan. I added my post before I read yours. We are on the same page. And I am not just agreeing just because I need to defend my choices for dice rolling in the two games I am designing

:-D

Mark

I think you could keep the Dice aspect and limit the randomness. For the creatures have Attack (dice modifier) / Defense (dice modifier). All the dice can be d6 with two faces -1, two 0 and two +1 (Which I think you can already purchase without doing custom). Have two colors of dice to distinguish attack from defense.

So say a 3(1)/3(1) attacks or is blocked by a 1(2)/2(2). The attacker would roll 1 of each dice and the defender would roll 2 of each dice to modify the base stats. If the defense is lower than or equal to the attack of the other then the creature, then it dies. Adds randomness, but not too much.

If a an attack stat goes negative, its a miss. If a defense stat goes negative, then its instant death on an attack of 0 or greater (basically the creature made itself prone).

For this I think I would start testing out an average base stat range in the 4 to 7 with the modifiers generally being 1 or 2.
You could then introduce lower base stats for swarm type tactics, or higher for stompy decks. It also limits the required amount of dice to the sum your highest attack and defense modifier.

I agree, with quest that regular dice or dice heavy would add too much randomness in a strategy game and therefore rule out a block of players. But just the aspect of dice rolling or SOME randomness in a strategy game won't necessarily deter mature gamers. I think you have to strike the right balance, and in strategy, that is generally to minimize randomness.

I agree that would reduce the randomness and would make for a bit more strategy, but having the knowledge would not be realistic in a realtime combat scenario. You don't know how well you are going to land the strike.

(pun intended)