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D20 attack system

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Troy Boy
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Joined: 03/17/2015

Hey I'm just wondering what anyone's thoughts are on this idea?

When attacking you roll a d20. Score hits for every multiple of 5 you roll higher than. for instance:

1-4= 0 hits

5-9= 1 hit

10-14= 2 hits

5-19= 3 hits

20-24= 4 hits

etc

Weapons could add flat bonuses to your roll or add higher bonuses if you roll between certain number. (like a +3 when rolling over 11)

Thoughts?

fayinsky
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Joined: 08/02/2014
Need more information to know

Need more information to know how the system works, such as:
1. The number of units that will be involved in the battle and whether if they have various stats.
2. Total health of each involved unit (if there are more than one) and damage for each hit etc.

From the information you've provided so far, I think it is ok but may have some balance issue. Well, generally because it seems too random to me.

X3M
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How do you have a 20-24 on a

How do you have a 20-24 on a D20?
Are you using multiple dice? If so, it will be imbalanced due to the lower limit.
With 4D20 you already have a hit.

You also made a mistake with 1-4? That is only 4.

Soulfinger
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This is one I've been torn

This is one I've been torn on, because I wanted to do something similar myself. However, I noted that players seem to prefer rolling multiple dice over rolling a single die and then having to perform even the most rudimentary math.

I've started to think it is because people in the mood to have fun tend toward simple mistakes, so it is embarrassing to roll a 14 and then miscalculate how many hits that yields. It adds stress to the already tense expectation of die rolling, maybe. I expect that you can pull it off with games that already have the players in a critical thinking mindset, like an RPG.

fayinsky
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Joined: 08/02/2014
Soulfinger wrote:This is one

Soulfinger wrote:
This is one I've been torn on, because I wanted to do something similar myself. However, I noted that players seem to prefer rolling multiple dice over rolling a single die and then having to perform even the most rudimentary math.

I've started to think it is because people in the mood to have fun tend toward simple mistakes, so it is embarrassing to roll a 14 and then miscalculate how many hits that yields. It adds stress to the already tense expectation of die rolling, maybe. I expect that you can pull it off with games that already have the players in a critical thinking mindset, like an RPG.


What if you simply replace those numbers with hits? At least the probability distribution will be retained and less calculation.

X3M
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fayinsky wrote:Soulfinger

fayinsky wrote:
Soulfinger wrote:
This is one I've been torn on, because I wanted to do something similar myself. However, I noted that players seem to prefer rolling multiple dice over rolling a single die and then having to perform even the most rudimentary math.

I've started to think it is because people in the mood to have fun tend toward simple mistakes, so it is embarrassing to roll a 14 and then miscalculate how many hits that yields. It adds stress to the already tense expectation of die rolling, maybe. I expect that you can pull it off with games that already have the players in a critical thinking mindset, like an RPG.


What if you simply replace those numbers with hits? At least the probability distribution will be retained and less calculation.

Probably because you want to customise your dice during the game. If not? Than it would be a good idea, yes. But how many different dice would you need?

@Soulfinger
That what you have written, is exactly one of my major changing points in the past for me.
It was back then, when I learned that not every one is smart enough to even read a chart. Simply hit/miss systems are the best by having multiple dice. Players simply want to remove the miss dice and count the hits. Never knew that someone experienced the same.

fayinsky
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Joined: 08/02/2014
Well, I do have a similar

Well, I do have a similar concern with my own battle system.

In my current design, the result of a hit is resolved by attacker rolling X dice and defender rolling Y dice, followed by a calculation of MAX X D6 - MAX Y D6...

I wonder how many would like to handle such a calculation from time to time. Good news is, my game is not battle oriented...

chris_mancini
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Joined: 05/01/2015
Custom die

While using off the shelf dice is always nice, you may consider a d20 with custom faces which show the number of hits rather than having the players do the math. This way you can also include crits, perhaps a 19 or 20 multiplies the next roll (I am currently shopping a game which has a similar mechanic). It certainly isn't hard to do the math given your system, but I find that custom dice is always a draw for people as your game offers something no others do. I of course am a dice-head and will sometimes buy a game if I like the unique dice mechanics alone!

Soulfinger
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X3M wrote:That what you have

X3M wrote:
That what you have written, is exactly one of my major changing points in the past for me.
It was back then, when I learned that not every one is smart enough to even read a chart. Simply hit/miss systems are the best by having multiple dice. Players simply want to remove the miss dice and count the hits. Never knew that someone experienced the same.

My impression is that game design is half about coming up with clever mechanics and half obfuscating them so that nobody realizes that math is involved. You build the engine and house it inside of a shiny automobile, so nobody realizes the complexity of the moving parts. The desire to pop the hood and tweak components sets the aspiring mechanic apart from the general population.

Part of it is intelligence. Plenty of people struggle with complex rules, which turns playing a complex game into an awkward and embarrassing experience. Losing by chance can be part of the fun, but it is a bitter pill to swallow losing because others are smarter or "better" at something when you didn't realize that such prerequisites existed going in. Sometimes it is possible to feel stupid just trying to understand a rulebook. By concealing the math, less intelligent players have the potential to train at the game and become competitive without performance anxiety. The playing field isn't at all level, but you want to make it feel that way.

It's also a class issue. Boardgames are marketed along distinct class and socio-economic lines, and there is a subset of the upper-lower to middle-middle that feels distinctly threatened by any hint of intellectualism. This is the segment of society that is proud not to read books, chastises children for using "big words," and suffers the greatest class anxiety and insecurity. The party game market has to take this into account, which is why so many of its offerings are phenomenally low brow.

However, I think the most notable element is an almost superstitious sense of the board game as a childhood experience. Many people have yet to let go of their childlike sense of wonder at board games, which is perhaps why some adults are unwilling to embrace more complex games that forcibly interject adult thinking. Math isn't fun for everyone. Personally, it took some of the magic away when I started crunching percentages and calculating odds instead of just seeing the dice as some sort of wholly unpredictable talisman. The more inaccessible and oblique those numbers are, the more players can stop thinking and start enjoying the game for its own sake.

Troy Boy
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Joined: 03/17/2015
Sorry I forgot to add, you

Sorry I forgot to add, you can get modifiers, like +2 to all rolls.

I was hoping it would be similar to rolling in D&D, minus rolling for you weapon. One simple roll.

thank you all for the feedback

Icynova
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Joined: 06/02/2015
I think you should start with

I think you should start with the requirements of your mechanic, and then decide if a d20 is the best way to implement. For instance, you more-or-less used a probability table to divide a d20 into a d4.

With a slight tweak to the damage balance, a d6 would accomplish the same thing without requiring the player to consult a table. Or you could simply use a d4. If you could get a custom d4 (0-3) instead of the standard (1-4), it would be the ideal solution.

I suspect you had something more complex in mind. I do like the d20 because it essentially divides probabilities into 5% bits. You can get multiples of 5% by assigning the same result to multiple numbers, which takes you back to your original damage table.

If it really is that straightforward, then consider using a different die.

JewellGames
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If you want to roll one d20

If you want to roll one d20 with those tiers, simply make a custom die where the colors associate with the amount of hit points (1-4 green ink for 0, 5-9 yellow ink for 1, 10-14 orange ink for 2, 15-19 red ink for 3, 20+ purple ink for 4) or display "hit pips" along with each number.

If he boiled the d20 down to a d4/d5 (based on the tiers) a +1 damage modifier effect (from a weapon like he mentions) would go from a 5% boost to a 20% boost.

This makes balancing and later expansion much more restrictive imo.

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