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[Help] How do I get hidden info flowing between players?

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dhavalmistry
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Joined: 11/13/2016

Hey guys,

I have run into a design roadblock which I need help from you guys to overcome. Please bare with me as English is not my first language.

I am designing a game where all the players get a color which is hidden from others. This color identifies the player's pawn on the board. Each player also gets a target card which will tell them who from the other players is their target. The objective of the game is to kill your target before you get killed. A player is considered "killed" when he/she gets wounded 3 times. When you and your target are at the same location, you can wound your target. There are about 7 different locations in the game. All the players have same 7 location cards but the border of the card will be of the color of the player.

A sample round:

Let us say there are 6 people playing. Matthew, Josh, Leanna, Chris, Nick and Kelly.

Matthew (secretly) gets BLUE color
Josh gets GREEN
Leanna gets RED
Chris gets BLACK
Nick gets YELLOW and
Kelly gets WHITE

Then all the players get another card which will say who their target is. This information is conveyed through colors as well.

Matthew's target is WHITE
Josh's target is BLACK
Leanna's target is BLUE
Chris's target is RED
Nick's target is GREEN
Kelly's target is YELLOW

Next, players will select a location card (I still haven't figured out why they would like to go to any specific location) that they wish to travel to and place it face down in front of them. Once everybody has selected a location, all the location cards are shuffled and opened 1 by 1 and corresponding colored pawns are moved to the location on the board. Once these location cards are used, they will be discarded and wont get them back.

For example:
Matthew decided to go to the park (I haven't decided on the location names so these locations are just placeholders.)
Josh went to the bank
Leanna went to the bank
Chris also went to bank
Nick went to the mall
Kelly also went to the park

Then players will choose between wounding (if they and their target are in the same location) or not to wound. Not to wound means that their target is not in the same location or they let their target pass to throw them off. This will be done by cards as well. Select wound or no wound card and place it face down. These cards are also color specific. Everybody has wound and no wound cards for all the colors.

Matthew selected WHITE wound card
Josh selected BLACK wound card
Leanna selected (any color) no wound card
Chris selected RED wound card
Nick selected any color no wound card
Kelly selected any color no wound card.

All these wound and no wound cards will be shuffled and opened to see who got wounded. So this means that WHITE, BLACK, and RED got wounded. Wounds will be tracked on a secondary board.

Kelly, Chris, and Leanna got wounded. Kelly (WHITE) was at the same location as BLUE. She takes a mental note of who might be targeting her.

This was the basic gameplay but I still need help/suggestions to figure some things out.

Problems I need help with:
1. How do I avoid a situation where a player gets the target color as their own color and what to do if that happens?
2. What incentive do players have to visit different locations?
3. If you know which color is targeting you then how can you prevent yourself from taking a wound.
4. What mechanics can I put in to help players figure out which color pawn belongs who (player).

Please feel free to suggest or comment on any aspect of the idea. If you see any potential problems (I am sure there are plenty) that I havent mentioned then please do not hesitate to mention them as well. I would also appreciate honest and brutal criticism.

Thank you

questccg
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Joined: 04/16/2011
Take a look at...

Hitman Holiday = https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/166048/hitman-holiday

Maybe that might give you some ideas... Although I guess I want to point out that your "game idea" is not very novel.

Check that game out - watch a review or read up more about it on BGG.

Best of luck with your game!

dhavalmistry
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Joined: 11/13/2016
questccg wrote:Hitman Holiday

questccg wrote:
Hitman Holiday = https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/166048/hitman-holiday

Maybe that might give you some ideas... Although I guess I want to point out that your "game idea" is not very novel.

Check that game out - watch a review or read up more about it on BGG.

Best of luck with your game!


Yes I am aware of the idea not being very novel. There is also another game called Assassin Con which uses very similar mechanics. I found out about Assassin Con much later and I just want to finish the idea rather than leaving it half done!

questccg
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Joined: 04/16/2011
No worries...

I'm not trying to discourage you... On the contrary look at the games that are similar, borrow things that work and design a "new" game.

I just figured if you checked out "Hitman Holiday" you could understand how the "secret information" is handled... As an example...

Maybe give you some ideas towards how to handle things in your game!

Cheers.

dhavalmistry
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Joined: 11/13/2016
questccg wrote:I'm not trying

questccg wrote:
I'm not trying to discourage you... On the contrary look at the games that are similar, borrow things that work and design a "new" game.

I just figured if you checked out "Hitman Holiday" you could understand how the "secret information" is handled... As an example...

Maybe give you some ideas towards how to handle things in your game!

Cheers.


I wasnt discouraged. I have been stuck at this for a while now. I just cant figure it out.

I looked at the Bower's review but didnt get much idea of how the secret info was handled. I will try and see if I can find any more videos on that game. Thanks

questccg
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Joined: 04/16/2011
Try watching this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqll_YzMDF4

This is a video that shows "HOW-TO" play the game (setup and playing). It's over 1 hour long... So I'm sure it goes into the nitty gritty details about how hidden information is used and kept secret.

Best of luck with your game!

dhavalmistry
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Joined: 11/13/2016
questccg

questccg wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqll_YzMDF4

This is a video that shows "HOW-TO" play the game (setup and playing). It's over 1 hour long... So I'm sure it goes into the nitty gritty details about how hidden information is used and kept secret.

Best of luck with your game!


Thanks for the link as well as your help!

DarkDream
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Quick Thoughts

Just some quick thoughts. What if you made the different rooms have different restrictions or allow players to do special actions so as to add some different strategies and deductive elements?

For example, maybe one room has a limit to the number of players it can contain. Another room allows all players in it to do two hits instead of the regular one.

Maybe one room allows a player to switch their target card with another player in the same room.

These suggestions probably will not work, but I think it gives you an idea of the type of things to make the game more interesting.

--DarkDream

dhavalmistry
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Joined: 11/13/2016
DarkDream wrote: For example,

DarkDream wrote:

For example, maybe one room has a limit to the number of players it can contain.
--DarkDream

This was one of the first ideas behind this concept but I abandoned it since I couldnt figure out how to tie it in with rest of the mechanics.

Rory J. Somers
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Joined: 09/28/2016
Intriguing Idea

Personally I find the idea you have here intriguing...

I read a review recently of a similarish game: Kill Doctor Lucky, which might help, check it out here
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/257/kill-doctor-lucky

To help further, I have some ideas too:
ROOMS:
If each room had a player dependent bonus (but a player must move each turn)
For example the Red Player:
- in the Red Room will ignore the first "attack" against it
- in the blue Room will regain one wound
- in the black room picks up a silent weapon
- in the green room picks up a deadly weapon
- in the white room picks up a "first aid kit"
>>AND<<
If each room limited what could occur in that room
- The Red - cannot use a silent weapon
- The Blue Room - Only one occupant
- The Black Room - cannot use deadly weapons
- The White Room - silent weapons do extra damage
- The Green Room - deadly weapons do extra damage

As for hidden information:
Mysterium (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/181304/mysterium)
a co-op game that ends in players secretly making the final game deciding choices) uses really neat envelopes in which players secret place their voting tokens.

If players, at the beginning of their turn all place their room card and their action card into an envelope. which were then shuffled and opened publicly showing that the Blue Player moves to the Green Room and collects a Silent Weapon - no-one would know who was controlling the Blue Player...

...and I'm out

dhavalmistry
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Joined: 11/13/2016
Rory J. Somers

Rory J. Somers wrote:
Personally I find the idea you have here intriguing...

I read a review recently of a similarish game: Kill Doctor Lucky, which might help, check it out here
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/257/kill-doctor-lucky

To help further, I have some ideas too:
ROOMS:
If each room had a player dependent bonus (but a player must move each turn)
For example the Red Player:
- in the Red Room will ignore the first "attack" against it
- in the blue Room will regain one wound
- in the black room picks up a silent weapon
- in the green room picks up a deadly weapon
- in the white room picks up a "first aid kit"
>>AND<<
If each room limited what could occur in that room
- The Red - cannot use a silent weapon
- The Blue Room - Only one occupant
- The Black Room - cannot use deadly weapons
- The White Room - silent weapons do extra damage
- The Green Room - deadly weapons do extra damage

As for hidden information:
Mysterium (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/181304/mysterium)
a co-op game that ends in players secretly making the final game deciding choices) uses really neat envelopes in which players secret place their voting tokens.

If players, at the beginning of their turn all place their room card and their action card into an envelope. which were then shuffled and opened publicly showing that the Blue Player moves to the Green Room and collects a Silent Weapon - no-one would know who was controlling the Blue Player...

...and I'm out


This is exactly what I had in mind but I am stuck at how to keep track of wounds and weapons and such. Since all the information regarding which player controls which color is hidden, I cannot hand over a wound token to a particular player. I really dont want to put a common board to keep track of wounds and such.

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