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How to randomize?

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questccg
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This is my question to fellow designers:

How do I RANDOMIZE "Game Tiles"? On one side I have a symbol etched into the wood with "Mana Crystals" around the tile (NSEW) with varying amounts, and on the backside I have red felt, so that the tiles don't damage any playing surface.

If I used a bag and only had 20 tiles, perhaps if players GENTLY mix the bag they could select a "Game Tile" from the bag/pouch ... but I am worried that this might DAMAGE the "Game Tiles" because of collisions inside the bag.

Anyone have OTHER ideas?

Right now the idea is that each player has 20 "Game Tiles":

  • 1 Encounter Tile
  • 4 Wildcard Tiles (all blank no crystals)
  • 15 Game Tiles (with crystals)

A total of 20 Game Tiles per Wizard and therefore 100 Game Tiles in total (20 x 5 Wizards).

But RANDOMIZATION is the main problem. If I flip them all around on the play surface, I could:

  • make scratches in the play surface
  • could damage the crystals on the game tiles.

Please let me know if you have any more CREATIVE randomization ideas.

Thank you!

questccg
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Here is a sample ... not quite but similar

gxnpt
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game tiles

I suspect you are going to end up with something a lot more like oversized scrabble tiles, with or without the felt on the back, to allow in a bag or dominos style randomization/shuffling without worrying about damage to the playing surface.

questccg
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Hmm...

I'm worried in a bag will cause collisions and "ruin" the game tiles?! Dominos are FLAT ... they don't have crystals coming out of them. If the tiles are going to cost money to buy, I doubt people will want to damage them. So I need to find a solution to this problem.

What if the RANDOMIZATION was done with one (1) d4?

Like the tiles are in a "display" like chips and you roll the die to determine which "Game Tile" you can choose. This is RANDOMIZED with a bit of determinism because ultimately you see the tile being chosen...

Does this sound sort of interesting??

gxnpt
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or have nothing sticking out

Damage is why i suspect you will end up going with a flat surface instead of things sticking out - those things might be inset instead so they lie below the surface giving flat with small indents instead of protrusions.

Rolling dice to pick tiles is just awkward.

Rick L
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Those tiles look

Those tiles look cool!

Instead of a die roll, what about a card draw? If the tiles are in a display, or just laid out in a pattern (say 4 rows of 5), the cards could highlight 2 or 3 spaces in the grid pattern, and you pick from those. I don't know how many you want to allow players to choose, but the cards could narrow down which are available.

You could consider those cards as a type of "spell", built out of the tiles that it highlights.

questccg
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Wow Rick that's very clever!

Arrange the Game Tiles in a random grid and then choose a card with a couple combinations. Or roll custom 2d6: 1-5 + Choose. And have 25 Game Tiles per player.

I really think this is awesome.

Definitely a good idea/mechanic. I can make rulers to keep track of positions when Game Tiles are played...

So far this makes the most sense.

krone9
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we do similar with a card

we do similar with a card draw for one of our games where there is a chance to select from larger, more fragile components. Works well.

Otherwise you could split out the variable components from the core pretty tile and have them as "things that sit next to the fragile pretty thing"

Rick L
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questccg wrote:Arrange the

questccg wrote:
Arrange the Game Tiles in a random grid and then choose a card with a couple combinations. Or roll custom 2d6: 1-5 + Choose. And have 25 Game Tiles per player.

I really think this is awesome.

Definitely a good idea/mechanic. I can make rulers to keep track of positions when Game Tiles are played...

So far this makes the most sense.

You could have a simple rule for shifting tiles to fill gaps when you select tiles and take them, like slide tiles to the bottom and/or left. Then your cards or dice can be focused on drawing tiles from that area.

I guess that would be the main issue if you're not replacing tiles to fill the empty spaces of this grid, right? If you draw a card or roll a die that indicates drawing a tile from a certain space, and that space is empty...? That's what got me thinking about shifting tiles to fill empty spaces, thus consolidating the grid to a smaller section.

Sounds like you had another idea with rulers to track those empty spaces?

Rick L
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Tile swapping

Also, if you have cards that select from a certain area of your grid, which you keep "full" by shifting tiles after each draw, you could have some cool items that allow you to swap tiles, to move tiles you want into the more optimal section of the grid, to have a better chance of drawing them.

X3M
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I guess you could simply

I guess you could simply increase the choices for the player. When an empty space is rolled. The player can choose an adjacent tile. OR. The player chooses any tile.

When you roll the choice with the die itself. You could limit this to only the column (die) and row (die).

Ps. How stands the number of squares in total? If you need help determining without accidentily making doubles. I know a trick in excel.

questccg
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Well my thoughts are along these lines...

You roll custom Black 2d6s with number 1-5 + Choose. When you roll, you get to pick which tile you prefer.

Example: If I roll a 2 and a 3, I can either take the tile at position (2, 3) or (3, 2).

If I roll a pair, those will allow you to choose a "Wildcard" (No crystals) and can be matched with any tile - but scores no points. There are four (4) wildcards per player.

This leaves one double slot for the "Encounter" tile. It can typically be either (1, 1) or (6, 6) - but could be anywhere in the middle too. Each player has one (1) Encounter tile and it has a Brass inlay with the Symbol that represents the Wizard.

The grid is 5 x 5 in terms of size. If a tile is taken, you can take the other option (if not doubles), otherwise you roll the dice again.

Something along those lines...

questccg
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Been working on using them "somehow"?!

Rick L wrote:
Those tiles look cool!

Glad you like them. They were from a previous incarnation of a temp game name called "Titans". It became too much of a Chess variant and the game didn't have a "unique" feel to it. So my partner and I shelved that project and I have not heard back from him for over a year.

It's not like I didn't TRY: I sent him a couple e-mails, he never responded.

So I am continuing without him to prototype more "Game Tiles" ... He said he would not be able to handle production either. So I was pretty much on my own finding a wood-working shop to produce the right amount of quantity of Game Tiles.

I will of course prototype the game with "The Game Crafter"'s (TGC) small punch-outs at 1.25" x 1.25" mini squares... Will test slowly, starting with maybe three (3) Wizards.

Cheers.

Stormyknight1976
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How about this idea?

Room Tiles = 5 x 5 = 25 rooms correct?

Lay the tiles face down with red felt up.

On the red felt ( tile cushion ) , write in black perminate marker 1 - 25 on each single tile.

So it should look like this :

1,2,3,4,5,
6,7,8,9,10,
11,12,13,14,15,
16,17,18, 19, 20,
21, 22, 23, 24, 25.

Roll 1d20 and 1d6 at the same time. These two dice are corresponding to the room. Add both numbers. Flip the tile corresponding to the number (s).

If the number 26 comes up, make it two option.
1: Room tile does not exist.
2: Room is a bonus room or pick from the draw pile or choose a wild card?

25 rooms with 20 rolls on the d20 will give you 500 different room combinations to start. Multiply the 1d6 with the 500 and this still gives you 1,100 different room combination starts. So the players never know where the game starts or entering a dungeon only after rolling the
dice.

So in turn, your tiles are rarely disturbed only after the action phase is completed.

Stormyknight1976

Esoteric Fulcrum
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Adding two dice means you

Adding two dice means you never get the number 1.

There is also only 1 combination that can give you 2 or 26, 2 combinations that give you 3 or 25, 3 combinations that give you 4 or 24, etc. There is not an equal chance of getting all the tiles.

Shane

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Oh, and those tiles do look

Oh, and those tiles do look fantastic. But to state the obvious, if you want to randomise the draw of a square item, it's hard to go past making them as cards.

Shane

questccg
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Corridors not rooms

Stormyknight1976 wrote:
Room Tiles = 5 x 5 = 25 rooms correct?

Actually they are NOT "rooms". They are "corridors". That's how you connect the tiles to score more Experience Points (XPs). The goal is to connect five (5) tiles together in a sequence to score up to 15 XP.

But movement is "restricted" by the symbol on the tile. So if there are two (2) circles next to each other, it's going to take 2 turns to move beyond those two "Game Tiles" and on to elsewhere in the dungeon (or level).

However each turn you MUST play one (1) "Game Tile" -- unless you are of the "Abjuror" class where you can play one "Game Tile" into a reserve. Then you can roll a 2nd time for another Game Tile.

Something along those lines...

questccg
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Hmm... I am liking @Jesse's idea

@Jesse Maybe I could use one (1) d20 (normal; not custom). An have 20 tiles per player. 4 Wildcards + 1 Encounter, would mean 15 custom tiles.

Something like:

01,02,03,04,05
06,07,08,09,10
11,12,13,14,15
16,17,18,19,20

All numbers are equally probable. No need for custom dice either.

What does everyone think of @Jesse's idea now???

It's not as flexible as the custom 2d6s ... but it's easier to implement and lowers the amount of Game Tiles required for each player.

15 custom Game Tiles is better than 20. Makes a big difference when it come to production costs to make the "base"/"starter" kit.

questccg
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Needs more thought

I like the custom 2d6s (1-5 + Choose) with 25 Game Tiles.

But @Jesse's idea of using one standard d20 is also interesting for 20 Game Tiles.

Right now I am thinking odds-wise I prefer the 2d6s. Just because rolling a pair is 1/6 odds. Rather than it being equally likely that you could roll a single number which is the same odd-wise.

I'll sleep on it over the weekend and then see what ideas I have.

Cheers. And thanks for the input!

Super-Tooned
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I love @Jesse's idea!

I love the idea! The system sounds a lot more simple, not as complex as the earlier system.

It sounds amazing!

That's all.

-Super

X3M
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Jesse's idea is indeed

Jesse's idea is indeed better.

While 2d6 for a 5x5 grid is still completely random. d20 feels more random to players.
Its simple and fast. And you don't need to color code the dice or something along those lines.

FrankM
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Another way to use dice

The 5x5 grid is a great idea, and I can see two ways of picking tiles from the edges of it.

The first one uses that custom d6 with 1-5 and wildcard, and a second d6 with four colors/directions/elements/etc (depending on theme) and two wildcard sides. For now I'll call the four north, south, east and west. The wildcards could be "choose any" or a north/south and an east/west.

The basic mechanic here is to have markers for lanes 1-5 on all four sides of the grid... the color/direction says which side to use and the number which lane. If that lane is completely empty, all of the tiles in the occupied "cross-lane" furthest from the chosen side are shifted just enough to bring a tile into the target lane. This method will work until there are no tiles at all.

A more random version would be to replace the lane markers with 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, and 16-20, then use a d20 (perhaps with custom coloring to match the sides of the grid). It uses the same sliding mechanism as above, but removes any decision from the player.

I'd probably prefer the former, but if a turn is already frightfully complicated then the d20 can simplify a bit.

In either case, note that corner tiles are more likely to be picked. You could expand the grid to 6x6 and still only have 5 lanes eligible for choosing to even out the probabilities, but it's probably not worth the effort.

Super-Tooned
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Put 'em in a bag.

Just put the game tiles in a bag and shake it up.

-Super

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