# Luck Mitigation: How do I add more strategy to my game?

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abdantas
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Joined: 11/13/2012

So I designed a simple dice game.

You roll 5 dice, align them in a line, and keep them hidden from the other player.
You take 10 chits from the "bank"

Playing the game.
you can pay 2 chits to ask one of the following questions:
- How many of # do you have?
- What's the total count of your die?
- What's the value on _________ die?

You can also pay 1 chit to move a dice to a different location
As well as pay 3 chit to flip a die to it's opposite side.

Once each player is done, you count the difference between each row of die (i have 5, you have a 3, so I get 2 chits, etc).

Player with the most chits win.

I know this game is incredibly simple. But here's the catch.
It still feels too luck based for me. I have some solutions, but I'd like to get some insight.

The obvious is to roll less die in the beginning. Less die less chance of odd numbers.

I have also thought about making the questions cost 1 to ask, and movement be based on the response. so you ask a question, and it gives you the ability to move a die in response. Also, what other questions would be viable without giving away too much information?

Thanks.

abdantas
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Joined: 11/13/2012
I've been told that players

I've been told that players announcing their moves helps mitigate a lot of the luck. I can see that.

Also, flipping die can only be done in the beginning of the round.

ElKobold
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Joined: 04/10/2015
Using same approach this can

This can be actually changed into a deduction game.

The goal of the game would be to guess which dice and in which order the opponent currently has.

Players take turns asking questions regarding the dice, or forcing an opponent to manipulate the dice in some way as you've described above except the direct value question.

At any point in time a player can try to guess the opponent's dice. If the guess is correct - he wins. If not, the opponent re-rolls and the game continues.

In this case random will have very little influence on the game. And you can alter the difficulty and length of the game by adding, or removing dice.

Zag24
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Joined: 03/02/2014
Some issues

With your rules, it doesn't actually matter what order your dice are in.

Say I have a total 20 and you have a total of 18, I'm going to win 2 chits, no matter the relative order our dice. So the only strategy is to pay 3 chits for any 1s you have to convert them to 6s, because that overall nets +2. Then we reveal and see who was luckier. This is not a very engaging game.

If you win not the difference, but just (say) 5 chits for every win, no matter how much you win by, then you have a game of strategy. You need to make the amount you win be enough that it might be worth asking a question and moving a die.

chris_mancini
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Joined: 05/01/2015
I like ElKobold's suggestion

Sounds like a mashup of Liar's Dice and Coup...an interesting concept. Players asking questions, referring to their own dice if they are the same to deduce what the other has rolled...asking the opponent to manipulate the dice is interesting too...I'd love to test this sort of game.

abdantas
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Joined: 11/13/2012
if you want to test please

if you want to test please message me directly, I can give you the more thought over ruleset. Its quite simple. also, the total value does not account for who wins the most because the dice are paired and judged individually. So you go from left to right, both players pick the one in the farthest over and lets say yo uhave a 4 and i have a 2, you would win 2 chits, then you go to the next, repeat and continue.

ElKobold
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Joined: 04/10/2015
abdantas wrote:if you want to

abdantas wrote:
if you want to test please message me directly, I can give you the more thought over ruleset. Its quite simple. also, the total value does not account for who wins the most because the dice are paired and judged individually. So you go from left to right, both players pick the one in the farthest over and lets say yo uhave a 4 and i have a 2, you would win 2 chits, then you go to the next, repeat and continue.

Yes, and the sum will be the same.

Let's say I have 1 3 5
And you have 2 6 4

I win 1 chit, you win 4. So 3 chits above me.
Well, that's (1+3+5) - (2+6+4) = -3

If you count the difference, not the amount of dice won, then positioning doesn't matter, as noted by Zag24.

X3M
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Joined: 10/28/2013
my first thought... o, someone else beated me to it

Zag24 wrote:
With your rules, it doesn't actually matter what order your dice are in.

Say I have a total 20 and you have a total of 18, I'm going to win 2 chits, no matter the relative order our dice. So the only strategy is to pay 3 chits for any 1s you have to convert them to 6s, because that overall nets +2. Then we reveal and see who was luckier. This is not a very engaging game.

If you win not the difference, but just (say) 5 chits for every win, no matter how much you win by, then you have a game of strategy. You need to make the amount you win be enough that it might be worth asking a question and moving a die.

12345 versus 54321 gives the same as
35241 versus 51243, etc.
-4, -2, 0, +2, +4 = 0
and
-2, +4, 0, 0, -2 = 0

let-off studios
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Joined: 02/07/2011
Clarification

It sounds to me that a player will always want to roll as close to all 6's as they can, since from the way I understand it, the higher dice number always earns the payout, regardless of who has it. Although this state seems heavily dependent on luck, there are still a few things players can do - mostly to other players - to shake things up a bit.

You may be able to allow players to pay chits to freeze manipulations of certain dice. For example, on my turn I pay 3 chits and say, "Die number 3 (the die in position 3) is frozen." Each player would reveal their third-position die and set it in front. Alternatively they choose the die that's to be placed in position 3 from their currently-hidden dice, then reveal simultaneously, immediately scoring chits-for-differences as you describe in your example.

You could also pay to force players to freeze and reveal dice of whatever number you call. For example, on my turn I could pay 3 chits and say, "Show number 2." At that point, each player who has a die showing 2 must reveal it, freezing or "locking" it in place as above. A trade-off for this call is that although the player can't improve that low number, they could collect 1 chit for each die they have to reveal.

You could also pay chits to go first in the next round, force players to roll all concealed dice, and other interactive things. Award chits to players who were negatively-affected in mid-round actions like those described above to balance effects. Eventually, turns would end when players are out of chits or all their dice are revealed. Do any final scoring at this point, and see who is in the lead.

abdantas
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Joined: 11/13/2012
So the player with the higher

So the player with the higher die value in the beginning will always win?

so the amount of chits won needs to be based on the actual amount of wins gathered, not the value difference

so what would be a fair number you think per win?