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Melting 2 mechanics together

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X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013

This is regarding the wargame that I always play.
But it can be applied to other wargames as well.

I am not sure how to do it exactly yet. But I am planning on removing my bonus rule and melt it together with the overkill that dice can cause.

To prevent a tldr, I will not go into detail. Only the summary. But if you guys like me to shorten this post, please let me know.


Units in the game will have normal damage.

But if they are outnumbered by a special statistic called "bonus costs". They can use the difference to 'buy' "bonus projectiles".

As you can see, there is annoying math involved. And mistakes can happen. The amount of extra statistics on the cards is also ridiculous high. So I seek to reduce these as well.

The primary reason that this rule is introduced was to give the underdog units a fighting chance. (the infamous infantry vs tanks test)

There is extra strategy as well, as seeing how some players actually left behind certain infantry on purpose. Only sending out those units that have the desired effects.

But the bonus rule did only have extra benefits for support infantry. The very basic ones would still fight a losing battle against the very basic tanks. Even if it would mean that less tanks would survive the battle. It was not something that players would do.


When I decided to get rid of sending overkill to a next target. I noticed something... wonderful. Weaker units actually where relatively more durable then the big guys. (The math itself is very beautiful)

The current die adds 20% more health to infantry compared to a tank.

The basic infantry actually have their winning average above 50% now. But this is still including the bonus rule.

Without the bonus rule, they once again fight a losing battle. Especially when it is with a minimum amount.


I see potential in changing the dice to such an extend. That the bonus rule is not needed any more.

What I can gain; A faster and better balanced game with simpler rules:
- Removal of a complicated bonus rule (halve A4).
- Removal of 2 Bonus rule stats.
- Less handling (no tracking bonus dice).
- Less calculating (no calculating amount of bonus dice).

Downside to all this:
- That one extra strategy for skilled players.
- Support infantry will be remarkable less effective against tanks. Not only will they only do 100% instead of 150% damage. But the overkill effect will now work against them as well if they have enough damage.

Only one problem remains for me. Which die?
I need almost certainly a simulator for this.

But do the gains weight out the losses here?
What do you guys think?

(Also, should I shorten this first post?)

let-off studios
let-off studios's picture
Joined: 02/07/2011
Play Testing for Optional Rules

Your play tests ought to bear this out, but if you feel the rest of the game as a whole offers the wargaming experience you've wanted to provide, then include the overkill bonus as an optional rule.

This way, the streamlined rules are provided for the introductory games, and the optional rules can offer the additional strategy to experienced players - which sounds to me like what you want.

In any case, looking at it on paper only tells you part of the story. Put it on the table several times for the rest of it.

X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013
I could leave the bonus rule

I could leave the bonus rule as optional. We already do that from time to time, just to speed up the game.

But increasing the overkill might over rule the bonus rule. That is what I am currently aiming for. Leaving out the bonus rule reduces play time by 15 to 20 percent.

But no bonus rule brings imbalance at the moment. Changing the normal dice might offer a solution.
Although, most dice designs look very weird.

The dice that I played so far with are:

30 options left.
I would like to refrain from 6 or higher.

Going to ask my cousin when he is wants to rewrite the simulator.


On a side note. Maybe the rules regarding bonus damage should change entirely.

Something like that the bonus rule works when the forces are outnumbered by at least 2 to 3?
1 to 2?
1 to 3?

If I do that, I don't have to change my initial dice. And still can get rid of complicated rules.

X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013
Plan A fails, Plan B it is.

At first I wanted to post my play test plan. Which is Plan A.

But seeing as how the 35 dice are designed in general. I don't think I will be happy with the right die.
By my first calculations, the average health should be 4,25. By simply testing this. I will be certain.
But the number of dice that allow this ammount as a result is bad. Very bad.
Most of them have overkill on a soldier.
For example: 000127.
Clearly this die does on average, just as much as 001234 on a tank that has 500 health.
But when we look at just 5 health. This 7 at the end makes no sense at all. That way, it is clearly an overkill with a bad after taste.

Plan B is for Basic. Just leaving things as they are.


My question right now to all the D&D or other dice rollers out there:
Would you mind rolling 6 or more with a die. While the target will always start with only 5 health?
That means, when you hit, you will have an overkill hit on the simplest of soldiers.
Is that OK?

X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013
Simplifying makes things worse :( ??

I don't know how most wargamers look at this.
I think they won't like it at all.

Current playtests make the game feel. Yugh!!!

How do you feel about the following?

Soldiers have 5 health.
Vehicles and tanks have 20, 45, 80 or even 125 health.
A die can roll for damage, example: 0,0,0,1,2,7
(But any dice with a total of 10, and the 6th option to be 6 or more counts)

This means that you always have overkill on soldiers when rolling that 7.
Even those that have some XP assigned to health.

Will this cause a feeling of unfairness?
Will players refrain from using the bigger units at first?

The same goes for cannons. When they roll the "7". The tank will need only 5 times the damage to kill another tank.
In fact, weaker cannons will be more usefull. A tier 2 cannon could instantly kill a tier 3 tank.
But previously, a tier 3 cannon or higher (yes, tier 3) needed at least 2 rounds to kill a tier 3 tank or smaller.
Plenty of room for taking cover or other manouvers in a next battle.


By now, I don't think that a die should be able to throw more then 4 damage.
The bonus dice often will be used when smaller units are outnumbered. Only these are allowed to have an instant kill chance of 1/6th.

X3M's picture
Joined: 10/28/2013

After careful testing. I discovered that only dice that end up with 7 or more at the end are good enough for the melting.

But then, mechanical speaking, I might as well remove the health tracking.
Which results in only 1 die possibility.
Which results in having the need for bonus dice again.

The End.

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