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new/ hero/villain dice card game

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jedite1000
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Im starting to like that dice

I'm starting to like that dice idea FrankM, I'll see how i can incorporate it into my game

Edit: my post is getting long, already page 2, i just want to tell you guys how appreciative im am for all you guys idea and that you take the time to help me, even if i don't use all of your ideas i still appreciate it

Edit 2: ok an update, i made some dice mock ups, i might decide on adding a mechanic that i had in my previous game, which is bench champion, these act as back up and 2 active zones 1 melee and 1 range, any card can go in any 2 zone but some will benefit more than others such as makes sense having a champion that does solely range attacks and it should be placed on the range zone.

The bench champions are placed facedown until you reveal them by switching a bench champion to the battle zone or when opponent directly attacks the bench champions. Who knows i might scrap it if it doesn't work out but so far it is all i have.

I posted a new image on the op (champion 2 dice) which shows the dice faces and champions cards

Edit 3: I made a draft rules page, its not complete so its only the basic

http://i.imgur.com/5rKEgL4.png

Edit 4: I was able to creat the mechanics with stickers and dice, i did some test roles trying to get the desired result, some of the times i failed so im thinking to change the miss face with a reroll, so if you get the reroll face you can roll that die again. I am aslo using 4 dice per roll, so 4 action dice and 4 defend dice for the opponent. and only using 2 combo results on the champions cards, like fire punch will only need a punch and a star instead of having a result of 3 needed

questccg
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Extra dice

Hmmm... I think FOUR (4) dice to roll for 4 dice abilities is too short.

I mean if you are going to have 4 dice abilities (requires 4 dice), you will probably need to have SIX (6) dice to roll and hopefully that improves your odds of getting one of the superhero's combos.

Four (4) for 4... is going to be rather difficult. Six (6) for 4 is more reasonable.

Just an observation.

FrankM
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Improbable

Matching four symbols on 4d6 is not going to happen in many games let alone rounds. I would go back to 5 dice and try matching 1 for simple powers, 2 for most, and 3 for stuff you want to be rare and impressive.

And a [miss] side is fine, but a [reroll] side is basically making it a d5 with a lot of annoying adjustments by the players. An unusual character or two might even have powers that use [miss]s to trigger an ability.

questccg
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I agree...

FrankM wrote:
Matching four symbols on 4d6 is not going to happen in many games let alone rounds. I would go back to 5 dice and try matching 1 for simple powers, 2 for most, and 3 for stuff you want to be rare and impressive.

I agree with @FrankM. If you want 4 dice "abilities", you are going to need 6d6s. If you stick with simpler 3 dice "abilities", 5d6s as FrankM suggests will be much more probable.

FrankM wrote:
And a [miss] side is fine, but a [reroll] side is basically making it a d5 with a lot of annoying adjustments by the players. An unusual character or two might even have powers that use [miss]s to trigger an ability.

What I would do is NOT have a "[reroll]" side, but have a character ability to "reroll" one die (for example). Like a "[miss]" could get [reroll] given a weaker character (in terms of attack) but better with the dice and abilities.

jedite1000
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Yeah i have increased the

Yeah i have increased the amount to 5 for now and lowered the combo requirements to 2 for the basic attacks, 3 for rarer attacks and 4 for really strong attacks

I also might get rid of kick and just have punch into a melee attack, and maybe use the now spare side another melee attack or something

Same as the defence die i might just have shield only and not avoid so shield can block both melee and range attacks, instead of avoid being able to avoid range attacks only

Edit: Ok i have created the real dice images for my dice game, still dont know what to put in the blank side, as i said before, not sure if i should use kick as the 6th side. I could do a double star side, since most of my champions attacks would require more than 1 star (element) to use

Edit 2: added the reaction dice

Basically this is what the dice do

Action
Fist = punch and kick is now merged into a melee attack that does 100 dmg on its own. Melee result can only target melee zone champions

Cross hair = It is the range only abilty that does 100 dmg to any champion in the range zone. Range result can only target range zone

Speech = Speech are used for the champions last ability which is usually an effect that has no dmg points but the effect can still do dmg depending on what the effect is.

Star = star is the element result, The champions combo will have thier element type instead of a star but players should know a star result is of an element

Double star = Same as star but with an extra one

Miss = Nothing

Reaction

Shield = Shield and avoid has merged into 1 face so the new shield face can block both melee and range attack. The shield will block 100 dmg

Heart = The heart will heal or increase you life if you havnt lost any yet by 100, If opponent attacks with 100 dmg, you will lose 100 but then gain 100 back, unlike shield, you will lose hp first then gain it back

Speech = Same as action speech but can be used on opponent's turn, some champions will have effects that require you to be on the reaction side.

Star = Same as action

Double star = same as action

Miss = Same as action

Edit 3:, ok added the champion card, basically this is what the cards will look like

FrankM
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Very good start

I think it's a good start, but matching four dice is going to be hard without some ability to store dice. It doesn't have to be a core mechanic even, just a special ability possessed by about three different characters on each side (i.e., leader heroes and mastermind villains). Players would naturally want to have at most one of those on the field at a time, which is good because these guys have outsized egos and probably can't work together :-)

More on the minor side, I would make the double-star icons the same size as the single star.

jedite1000
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Thanx for the commentI've

Thanx for the comment
I've planned to only have 2 characters on the battlefield at once, Melee and range zone, i could have some characters that can work well together though.

Still figuring out the melee and range zones though

would you only able to attack with a range ability if you are on the range zone and it wont work if you are on the melee zone, and are you only able to attack the range zone

Or any character can go on either zone and not call it a range and melee zone but range attack will still only able to attack the back zone behind the front zone which was melee and range zone.

Or, just have range attacks only able to attack the bench champion, so that would mean the bench champions are no longer safe behind the battlefield.

Edit 2: Ok first 3 champion cards are done, ive decided on 5 or 6 dice, that would give enough result attempts to get 4 correct results

FrankM
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Not clear from the rules

Good progress, even if Shower Man is a questionable choice for an ally :-)

It wasn't clear from the rules sheet, but it seems like you intend attack dice to do 100 damage each assuming there is a character in the appropriate zone. That means the players can accomplish something without waiting for a symbol match, which is a good idea.

jedite1000
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Yeah, the rules need

Yeah, the rules need updating, so far 100 dmg is the score for the dice, i could do 1000 but the champion's health is low enough so they might be killed too fast.

And the 2 battle zones i have mentioned previously, i actually like the change i made which the 2 zones will be next to each other instead of one in front of the other, it saves more table space and having range attacks to attack the bench champions only makes it more diverse so bench champions will not be safe. I will probably make some passive abilities since you won't be able to use champions abilities if they're on the bench, with passive abilities they automatically activate once the champions have been revealed on the bench so the passive will continue to work on the champion if they're on the bench or the battlefield. So even though the bench champions are not active, the passive effects still work. Having it like this so players are able to think more strategic on what champions they would think would be good on the bench

Let's say a passive is if you roll a die and you get the result you don't want you can reroll it again. So again only range dice results are able to attack the bench champions and melee result can't

Ill be sending to TGC my dice design and a character card to be printed to see how they look physically, ill just send 1 action and 1 reaction dice and 1 character card, ill post a photo once it arrives which will be 2 weeks or so since im in Australia

FrankM
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How to track health?

How do you propose to track each character's health? It's more nuanced than just healthy/wounded/out, so you'll probably end up with some counters. Could also put health numbers along the edge of the card to track with a clip, but thousands of health in 100 point increments might make that infeasible.

jedite1000 wrote:
ill post a photo once it arrives which will be 2 weeks or so since im in Australia

This just reminds me of a silly anime thing I saw a long time ago... the aliens had conquered most of Earth, but the human hold-outs were based in Australia because it was outside the badguys' bomber range. You know, because the same aliens that traveled interstellar distances to get to Earth in the first place can't make it to Australia.

questccg
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I have an idea - use CLIPS

If around your cards you have HEALTH from MAX to 0, you can use these clips to keep track of each Hero's health:

https://www.thegamecrafter.com/parts/slider-clip-blue

The clip onto the SIDES of cards and could accommodate a Health Track.

Other IDEA, instead of 100 damage (for weaker punch/kick), you could make it ONE TRACK UNIT. This way you could go down 200 or 500 points depending on the Health Track of the Hero (or Villain)...

Might be an easy work-around.

Cheers.

Super-Tooned
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Uhm.

questccg wrote:
If around your cards you have HEALTH from MAX to 0, you can use these clips to keep track of each Hero's health:

https://www.thegamecrafter.com/parts/slider-clip-blue

The clip onto the SIDES of cards and could accommodate a Health Track.

FrankM wrote:
How do you propose to track each character's health? It's more nuanced than just healthy/wounded/out, so you'll probably end up with some counters. Could also put health numbers along the edge of the card to track with a clip, but thousands of health in 100 point increments might make that infeasible.

Uhm. Same thing.

-Super

jedite1000
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So do you suggest the dice

So do you suggest the dice face with melee and range be higher than 100?

questccg
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To further explain

jedite1000 wrote:
So do you suggest the dice face with melee and range be higher than 100?

What I am suggesting is that each Hero or Villain have a specific health. Let's say the Fire-dude has 10,000 HP. If his track is 20 units, that means his units are 500 each. Therefore each melee or range attack, which only does 1 damage unit, would do 500 damage.

Say a villain has 8,000 HP. And his track is 20 units. Each unit would be 400 HP. Therefore a basic melee or range attack would deal 400 damage...

Something along those lines...

Try to keep round numbers with easy calculations...

jedite1000
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I see where you are going,

I see where you are going, the problem is though, the dice has a set number printed on the face so i don't want to use multiple dice for different melee/range strength. Im looking for a number that overall works with all level of health.

questccg
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To further expand my idea

I guess what I am saying, is that instead of working with an attack of 1,500 HP, it could be 3 units. So 3 x 500 = 1500 damage.

But with another character, 3 units could be 1,200 HP, because each unit is only 400 damage points.

Just some ideas... Cheers.

jedite1000
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Well i can work on it as i go

Well i can work on it as i go along, I can always change the numbers on the cards, right now just want to get in a few champions so i can do some play testing

I've added some different abilities called passives

Well, passive is the name, for now, i have to come up with a heroic term later, but right now it's called passive. If you have played a game like yu-gi-oh, it's like a continuous spell card

There are 2 different type of passives

1: the normal passive. what it does is, the passive will always be active either on the battlefield or the bench if the champion is face up.

2: the other are hero and villain exclusives i decided to add this type so it gives more meaning from playing heroes and villains

the passives are called hero passive and villain passive, these champions are sidekicks and minions, they have no abilities of their own except their own passive which will only work if you have a villain or hero on the battlefield with it. unlike other passives, the hero/villain passives will only work on the battlefield. The sidekick's abilities can help your hero out while on the battlefield

Edit: Once i have enough element types ill do a strength and weakness chart, such as fire is weak against water and lightning is strong against water etc. So if my fire guy attacks your water guy for 500, it will only do 250 and if your lighting guys do 500 to my water guy it will be 1000 instead. It won't be visible on the actual cards so ill have it in the instruction booklet of which element type is weak against what.

Or i can do something like Pokemon, they have a little strength and resistance icon on the bottom of the card so maybe ill add little icons somewhere on the cards

Super-Tooned
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My advice.

My advice to you, take it or leave it I don't care, is try to quit asking everybody else questions. I get if you need help or anything but for the small stuff, if you like it, go with your idea.

Also I like all ideas so far.

-Super

jedite1000
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Thanx, though from my first

Thanx, though from my first post i made, my game was quite different and thanx to people on here, i changed it for the better. though since it is coming down to the final part of my game, i am quite happy with how it is so far. core mechanics won't change and I can still tweak some bits here and there if need be, but right now it is solid. even if other people disagree. who knows my game my crash and burn and no one other than me and a friend would play it. I'm learning and im still happy to show everyone my games

questccg
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You're Welcome!

jedite1000 wrote:
Thanx, though from my first post i made, my game was quite different and thanx to people on here, i changed it for the better...

Well I'm glad the members of our community were able to help you with your design. And from all the members on this site -- I hope you continue to share the evolution of the game.

Working in the opposite direction is definitely the way to go. And what I meant by this is that you started off with some basic ideas (dice, character cards, powers) and now you've taken all of that a bit further with the new icons you might have to offset powers (Water beats Fire beat Earth beats Water)...

I'd like to see what kind of prototype you put together and maybe post some images of some gameplay and how the game progresses (in terms of playtesting with people you know).

I'm sure if you have other doubts, we can help by providing alternative solutions -- but of course you are the designer and it's up to you to choose what works best with your design.

Best of luck(?!) with your game.

jedite1000
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Thank, i love to show my

Thank, i love to show my progress in my designs

Im currently working on the element resistance

So which element should be strong or weak against

Lets say the obvious fire and water type

Water beats fire so my water guy attacks my fire guy for 500 dmg, instead of 500 it will do 1000 dmg, if it was reversed my fire attacks with 500 it will do 250 instead to the water guy

So far my elements will include are
fire
water
air
electric
ground
poison
tech
dark
light
undead
nature/plant

And the resistance chart (the arrow indicates that the element beats the next element)

electric > Water > Fire > nature > air > ground > electric
light > dark > undead > poison > tech > light

questccg
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Some streamlining, if you prefer

jedite1000 wrote:
...So far my elements will include are fire water air electric ground poison tech dark light undead nature/plant

And the resistance chart (the arrow indicates that the element beats the next element)

electric > Water > Fire > nature > air > ground > electric light > dark > undead > poison > tech > light

My suggestion is to "streamline" the resistances.

Light (Good Heroes) > Dark (Bad Villains) > Neutral (Non-Aligned Characters > Light (Good Heroes).

This first TRACK determines rules between the various characters in the game. It uses a simple RPS-3 and it distinguishes how they all align.

Next I would go further deeper into your "resistances" and DEFINE an RPS-9 with the elements you have defined:

Electric > Water > Fire > Nature > Air > Ground > Undead > Poison > Technology > Electric

This second TRACK sets up the element rules for a 2nd RPS set of relationships. It's an RPS-9 which means there are nine elements.

Having 2 RPS relationship can help steer the relationships into something much simpler to explain.

The RPS-3 is easy to remember and needs not be documented on cards and the RPS-9 relationships can be converted into a 5 icon diagram.

I can send you samples of the RPS-9 if you like. To help define it and how to include the information on the cards... It's more complicated than Pokemon - but still pretty easy to understand.

Let me know if you need additional information.

Note: This is just a "suggestion". It felt a little "arbitrary" with the Heroes and Resistances. I just thought it would be good to DIVIDE "Heroes/Villains" and then each one's Ability/Resistance.

jedite1000
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Oh ok, i never planned of

Oh ok, i never planned of having dark only villains and light only heroes, like there could be a ninja character who is a hero but element is dark

Dunno what RPS and the numbers mean, i am of a simple mind, and i do not know much about game lingo

questccg
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RPS stands for

Rock-Paper-Scissors. And "3" or "9" indicate the level of complexity. RPS-3 is the simplest and is the "basic" Rock-Paper-Scissors you can have. RPS-9 on the other hand is a much more complex "beast" and usually requires a diagram to figure out (or a table).

But I've worked extensively with RPS-9 diagram and have come up with a simpler view of the tabular data. Never the less it can be expressed in a 5 icon display to show you "how" this "resource" beats another resource. And there are a bunch of relationships.

I'll upload you a table and diagram (this week)... Although it may be towards the middle of the week since I will be rather busy this week.

Cheers.

jedite1000
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Np I am currently having bit

Np

I am currently having bit of trouble figuring out where to put my extra elements, do i put them with the main element? or do i put them on the text box..really struggling where to place them, they cannot go towards the bleed edges as that is where the cards will be cut

questccg
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Here is the Diagram and the Table

Of course, there may be minor differences. I believe you chose "Water" and my diagram shows "Frost" - just because my plans were for a "Fantasy" game and not superheroes.

And the corresponding table is the following:

I'll send you the "short form" for the relationship -- later in the week. I couldn't find the iconic diagram anywhere. But I know it may be on my desktop not laptop. But don't worry, I'll show you a SAMPLE (and explain how the iconic diagram lists ALL the 9 relationships).

Cheers.

Note: I had planned on using an RPS in "some game - some day". But it's just one "component" that I designed for a game and the game sucked so I flushed it. But I kept the RPS-9 because frankly it was COOL.

And the iconic diagram shows you all the relationships. Very simple and better than Pokemon - because you can actually determine all the relationships...

BTW here is the Pokemon RPS (just as a reference):

So an RPS-9 is not OVERKILL -- it's actually a very good idea to have established the various relationships... And as a mechanic, it is "technically" sound.

questccg
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The RPS-9 "Table" lists the relationships

Basically the "ICONIC" version is a transformation of the RPS-9 TABLE, into a small diagram PER CARD.

For example: Take "Fire" (since one of your heroes is a Fire-dude).

"Fire" beats "Frost". What this means "Fire" does 2x Damage when attacking a "Frost" character. (I know you are using water... you'll have to tweak the diagram and rework it a little -- if you want your EXACT elements).

"Fire" also ATTACKS ("Single Attack") Order and Earth. What this means is that the attack is NORMAL but when "Fire" attacks EITHER "Order" or "Earth", they cannot RETALIATE (Hit back).

"Fire" also spars ("Mutual Attack") Tech and Death. What this means is that the attack is NORMAL but when "Fire" attacks EITHER "Tech" or "Death", the opponent can COUNTER. So first "Fire-dude" attacks and then the opponent responds with an attack and damage of his own.

And that's it for "Fire-dude"... Pretty simple, huh? You've just got to put a iconic diagram which "explains" these THREE (3) relationships PER CHARACTER (and his element).

But it's freaken COOL... To me, this would really shine in your game. And feel free to ask questions and to analyze the diagram, table and this comment.

Cheers!

Note: You could ADD a another relationship, so four (4), which could be if TWO "Fire-dudes" attack EACH OTHER, it's a "Mutual attack" -- which means same element versus itself, is a "Mutual attack"...

And that leaves three (3) relationships that are in the diagram but not the table:

  1. The element that beats "Fire-dude" (his weakness).
  2. The two (2) elements that only attack "Fire-dude" ("Single attack").

And that's IT: ALL NINE (9) relationships easy peasy to figure out!

jedite1000
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Would this change my

Would this change my mechanics at all? or its just adding in weakness/strength to attacks?

questccg
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Only changes the weakness/strengths

No change in mechanics. It would just define the attacks. But combat would need to have three (3) different attacks:

  1. DOUBLE DAMAGE (which you already want).
  2. SINGLE ATTACK (which means that the opposing player CANNOT counter on YOUR turn.) This equates to what ALL your combat would look like. So no change there.
  3. MUTUAL ATTACK (this is the only difference!) What it means that on YOUR turn when you ATTACK, the other player can COUNTER with an attack too.

So it would ADD one attack type to combat: the COUNTER. Which you had yet to define. It means if you don't defeat your opponent, he gets the opportunity to fight back.

It's not a mechanics change ... just an additional function to combat.

jedite1000
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Ah ok, though there is the

Ah ok, though there is the reaction mechanic i think conflicts with it. Usually its when you attack, you use the red dice called action while your opposing player uses the reaction blue dice to defend

unless SINGLE ATTACK the opposing player cant use reaction dice to defend and MUTUAL ATTACK is the opposing player would also use red dice on your turn. However there is only 1 set of blue and red dice as both players share the dice

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