Not sorting dice

We did some testing with allowing to choose the dice for all cases.

***

It is really the cluster of units with a vulnerability of 6. That has the disadvantage.

First players roll for accuracy.
Then for damage.
And then for vulnerability.

If it is 6, there is no roll. Thus players can sort these out.

If it is 5 or less, then the players need to roll the dice one by one. By selecting the damage die they want.

If the target group is of one kind. The vulnerability roll can be done before the damage roll.

***

Either way.
The lesser vulnerable units have an extra advantage if dice are chosen.

If dice are randomly picked. Those with vulnerability of 6 are relatively 22% stronger.

I did the deck suggestion from Lewisher. 4* A to 6. But it was different in a sense to make things logical. A card was used on an entire attack. And the deck would be personal and completely depleted before reshuffling.

It led to certain changes in the game. Which is posted here:
https://www.bgdf.com/node/22051
Not bad in overall. But not at the preferred level.

***

I am going back to bucket'o'dice. Since my player base prefers these over cards. And also, dice where needed for accuracy effects as well.

I skimmed through my discussions with some of my players. And as how it stands. Only 2 options remain in a black and white manner.

***

Usage of coloured dice
A player has different types of damage in the attack. These are tracked with the colours of the dice. Example:
-Red; infantry and light structures.
-Orange; vehicles and medium structures.
-Yellow; tanks and heavy structures.
All dice are still in one pool.

A different range is a different pool.

Anti-air and anti-sub are a different battle. And have their own pool system. But concluded at the same time if they have the same range.

Either option:
-Dice are rolled for accuracy: miss is a remove from the pool.
-Dice are rolled for other effects: a probable miss becomes a separate pool.
-Both the hit and the probable miss pool are rolled separately for damage. If bonus damage is present, this could result in more pools. A total of 6 pools can emerge (but is rare).
-Attacking players are able to choose their targets if the defending player has the targets in one line (front, middle, back).

Option one (what we always played):
Attacking players sort their rolled dice for the most optimal results.
Dice are picked from the (6) pools.
Colour of the dice are also important here for damage multipliers.

-Down time increases by sorting.
-Game time decreases by higher kill count.

Option two:
Players always sort the dice from high to low. Regardless of whether the die is from the hit or the probable miss pool.
Regardless of the colour of the die. Although several colours with the same damage counter can still be sorted by the attacking player. A sub-option would be putting the higher damage type in front.
If an anti infantry and anti tank die are clustered together while hitting an infantry, this is a waste of the tank die. Same can be said when hitting a tank instead. The player selects the targets, but the dice are forced in the order.

-Down time decreases by sorting.
-(sub option) Down time increases by sorting the colours.
-Game time increases by lower kill count: Infantry and "Lucky" tanks are stronger.
-Multiples of health are weaker either way.

***

Well then. I typed it all out here. I will give it some more thought. But having both options seems like making things complicated for the players. I rather choose one and force it upon the players. No mistakes should happen.
I prefer the second option more and more.
What do you guys think? What would you prefer?

Player A, attacks player B.
Player B is exhausted in this situation and can only take cover.

Player A has 5 rifle infantry and 5 shotgun infantry.

Rifle infantry: 1 projectile of 1 damage.
Shotgun infantry: 2 projectiles of 1 damage, accuracy 3 (4 or more is a miss).

Player B has 5 rifle infantry and 5 shields.

Rifle infantry: 5 health.
Shield: 5 health, vulnerability 4 (5 or more is a miss).
Player A has to destroy 1 shield before 1 of the Rifle infantry behind them looses cover.

***

Player A can pick 5 (red) dice for the rifle damage. And 10 (yellow) dice for the shotgun damage.

1 - Roll for any accuracy.

The 10 yellow dice are rolled. Any dice that is 4 or more is a miss. And are removed from the pool. Let's pretend that 6 remain.

There is no penalty roll.

Since the colour of the dice was only depending on the accuracy. This is now obsolete.
We have 1 pool of 11 dice.

2 - Roll for any vulnerability.

Since the rifle infantry have taken cover behind shields. We don't know if dice will make it to them.

All dice are rolled.
Any die that has 4 or more is put in a separate pool.
Let's pretend that 7 dice are always a hit and 4 dice are a potential miss.

To keep 1 pool. We now use 7 red dice and 4 yellow dice.

3 - Roll for any damage.

There are no bonuses.

Both pools are important and are rolled. But kept separate. In this example, we have 7 red and 4 yellow dice.

Let's pretend that we roll the following damage:
Red; 0011344
Yellow; 0124

Any 0 damage is removed. Since 0 damage is 0 damage.

Red; 11344
Yellow; 124

4 - Damage is subtracted from the health. (Here we have true down time, but only because step 2 was important)

The red dice can subtract from both the shields health and the rifle infantry health.
The yellow dice can only subtract from the rifle infantry health; 0 damage on shields.

First shield dies by combining a red 1 and red 4.

Remaining pool:
Red; 134
Yellow; 124

First rifle infantry dies by combining a yellow 1 and yellow 4.

Remaining pool:
Red; 134
Yellow; 2

Second shield dies by combining a red 1 and red 4.

Remaining pool:
Red; 3
Yellow; 2

Now the player can choose. Either kill of the second rifle infantry or only damage the third shield by 3.
For multiple reasons, it is decided that the rifle infantry dies now.
And luckily, that 3 and 2 is a perfect combination.

I never follow history.
I might have had a chapter for some knights and magic. But most of my games involve RTS like games.
One hundred percent fantasy sci-fi.

Henceforth the attempt at "not" sorting the dice. Which would mean plug and play.
The card mechanic offered such solution. But I indeed have a hardcore gaming group. That likes bucket'o'dice.

The only complex part would be as given in the example above. Sorting the dice. While half of the time the results are obvious. Another part will create down time by figuring out the best optimal results for the attacker. Especially as given in the example. Having dice that might or might not be used. But have to be kept till the end.

A simple rule could break (if only a part of) this down time.

I could try to fiddle with the dice rolls in such a manner, that damage rolls come sooner than vulnerability rolls. However, this requires more dice.
We tried it. We did not like it.

I could try to remove vulnerability.
We do have the health differences in other ways. But the detailed designs would certainly be reduced as well. We did not like that. This era was before we added vulnerability in the first place.

I could try to remove experience.
It is "a fun" part of the game. Where a player adds a lot of XP to an unit. But by removing experience, I can remove vulnerability. And add in different sizes of health. Instead of a vulnerability of 5 with 5 health. I could simply use 6 health.

***

This topic was about having the damage dice "not" being sorted. Meaning, there would be no (or at least less) down time at all for the players. Simply say, what the target would be and start picking the dice from the shute. And see if it was a hit or not.

Rolling the dice one by one is the same. But way more tedious. Since you need to keep count etc. So we kept the bucket'o'dice method.

Either way. If the dice where "not" to be sorted. The duration of life would increase for the smallest pieces. It doesn't have to, but it sure was a nice bonus.

As you can see. We are sort of going into circles here.

***

Blind play testers?
Since this is a hobby game by me and some friends. We did not really had blind play testers. The game is kinda shown to newcomers by simply starting to play.
And the newcomers have only been friends of friends.

None of them had issues with the latest way of rolling of the dice.

Only the first 4 players knew the old way of rolling the dice. Which was re-rolling in case of XP or bonus.
We kept add-rolling for the XP. And changed bonus into a lesser subtraction mechanic.

True.

If it conciliates you. If I where ever to get a public version. Only accuracy dice would remain at most.
We can't have over 1000 different unit designs in a public version any way. :)

If I ever where to look back at this.
I should remind myself that I decided to allow players to sort their dice.

Despite facing 1 health units as well, mixed with higher health units.
The player that attacks, may organise the dice how they see fit.

The downtime might be a little bit longer. The game time shortens greatly. And there is tactics to be used by all players in regards to organise their forces.

(Even sorting from high to low failed ;) )

O, don't worry about the colours.
For aeons now, I am using coloured dice to represent the damages indeed.

And there was a sorting issue with these as well. But seeing as how players want to hold fire for a nano second. In case the heavy cannons might target tanks that way. Why not allow the players to sort it all?

A heavy damage roll of just 1*D might as well blast an infantry unit to smithereens. If the enemy tank is going to survive with a hair's breath any way.

There are other parts of the game, that making "NOT" sorting the dice ridiculous. Henceforth the closure.