Short question about hitting moving targets, or attack while moving

The weight of a turn should be the factor here.

Instead of 2 turns. We want to have Assault to be 1 turn.

So, I need to translate the ammount of turns that a player wins, into a penalty.

It isn't a simple cut in half.

I figured that the effectivness of an unit would be 50% on movement and 50% on the attack if it where to try both at the same time.
The Assault makes use of a full move. Thus the damage would be -100% as penalty. But only if the AP cost would be that of 1 action.

The player still pays a full ammount of AP.
For this reason, the penalty should be half.

I conclude here, the penalty on the damage would be -50%.
This is with a maximum movement of the unit.
And I assume the use of the maximum attack distance too.

The unit costs are also linked to how fast an unit can move and how far it can shoot. The more effective an assault is, the more expensive the unit is by normal means.
So, I can't win anything here?

What I can do is that an unit attacking at a shorter distance will receive less penalty.
Or when moving less than it is capable of.

This is somewhat the same as my "history" version.
I want to prevent, making a table per unit design.
So, I don't know what to do here.
All I know is that when an unit makes use of its maximum capabilities, the penalty should be -50%.
And to have less penalty, it can work in a way. Since if you have an unit with a movement speed of 1. It would have -50% damage if it moves and attacks.
But reducing the movement speed to 0 automatically means borrowing the 50% from there and the penalty is 0%.

A maximum movement speed of 2; would have -50% damage on a movement of 2, -25% damage on a movement of 1 and again 0% if it doesn't move.

The penalties would be different for every movement speed...
As said before.
I want to prevent, making a table per unit design.

The same effect can happen with the attack distance. A shorter distance would allow for a lower penalty. Because it is simply simpler to hit something at a shorter distance while moving.

***

What can I do here?
Simply keep the -50% as a one and only penalty option?
Or find a way to have penalties reduced when slowing down or firing from a shorter distance?

-50% is (5/6)^4.
I could say, the basic penalty is 4.
But if an unit attacks at a shorter distance or moves slower, this penalty goes down. A melee attack would have no penalty...
Just like in the History version.

However, what if an unit is already a melee unit to begin with?
While a defence building can't move either.
It would be logically to both have to receive no penalty.
The defence building simply due to the fact it cannot perform an assault.
But the melee unit can perform an assault.

Here we got another paradox, that I need to solve with logic...

Oh... I think I know. But to work it out, it is rather late now.
A quick note for myself. The basis is the H/D ratio.
0 movement speed doesn't count as an assault.
0 attack range is in reality still a basis of 2.
If 1 attack range is the -50%.
Then 0 attack range for that same unit would mean 0,5 * -50% = -25%.
A true melee unit would always receive -50% damage when performing an assault with a maximum movement speed.

Gona sleep now...

I am going to describe the paradox units.
And this will show how complicated the end result will be.

***

The first unit has a maximum penalty when movement is involved.
In other words, there is no damage possible when an assault is used. Assault is never an option.
There is also no damage possible when the enemy moves.
Attack range is sufficient to outrange normal defences and units.

Against the following situations:
- Structures; can't move. Thus maximum damage.
- Defences; can't move. Thus maximum damage.
- Long range defences; no assault possible. There will be no damage. This is not a choice. Damage comes 1 turn later.
- Units that are exhausted; can't move. Thus maximum damage.
- Units that can move; this is declared after the attack. This is a choice by the enemy. There will be no damage.
- Long range units that are exhausted; no assault possible. There will be no damage. This is not a choice. Damage comes 1 turn later.
- Long range units that can move; this is declared after the attack. This is a choice by the enemy. There will be no damage.

***

The second unit has a penalty that allows 1 damage when there is movement involved. Assault can now be a choice for a minimal damage. Attack range is sufficient to outrange normal defences and units.

Against the following situations:
- Structures; can't move. Thus maximum damage.
Assault is possible for that 1 damage. In a 1 on 1 this is not needed. But the choice exists.
- Defences; can't move. Thus maximum damage.
Assault is possible for that 1 damage. In a 1 on 1 this is not needed. But the choice exists.
- Long range defences; chances are that assault is the only way to deal damage. If the defence is too strong, why bother? This is a sub paradox, there is a chance that the choice is not a choice
- Units that are exhausted; can't move. Thus maximum damage.
- Units that can move; this is declared after the attack. This is a choice by the enemy. There will be 1 damage.
- Long range units that are exhausted; chances are that assault is the only way to deal damage. If the long range unit is too strong, why bother? This is a sub paradox, there is a chance that the choice is not a choice
- Long range units that can move; chances are that assault is the only way to deal damage. If the long range unit is too strong, why bother? This is a sub paradox, there is a chance that the choice is not a choice AND This is declared after the attack. This is a choice by the enemy. There will be "less than" 1 damage.

For now, lets consider the Attribute and the Action [Assault] to be in the same boat.

The other factor would be the [projectile velocity].

The factor that I exclude for now, is the [dodging penalty].

***

Doing an Assault is a choice.

The penalty is the way to balance this choice.
The reward is that 2 actions are done in 1 turn.

I cannot have a different projectile velocity or penalty when an assault is performed.

It is still optional to have the attack distance and/or movement speed to be of influence.
But I am not going to look into this just yet.

***

Let's assume there is only one penalty possible for when an assault is a choice.
What could this penalty be?

What do I know?
- All designs should be worth 100%.
- Assault is a choice.
Thus half the penalty.
- 2 actions in 1 AP mean -100% damage.
- 2 actions are only in 1 turn, AP is a full pay.
When an extra attack is added, normally a secondary damage counts for 50%.
Thus half the penalty.
But the extra attack can also be added later.
Thus the halving happens only for half, but only as choice, thus between 50% and 75%, which is 62.5%

The penalty should be around -100% * 0.5 * 0.625 = -31.25%. Or a remainder of 68,75%.
This is close to 2/3th.
Thus a penalty on Assault is 4/6th.

***

Once Assault is an attribute.
I must change the costs of units.
Assault can actually be a choice.
This should be considered as an extra weapon cost for 50%.
The AP cost equals to that of a normal action.
Thus the damage is an extra.

Different penalties are possible now.
6/6 is 100% damage, thus +50% in weapon costs.
4/6 is 67% damage, thus +33% in weapon costs.
0/6 is 0% damage, thus +0% in weapon costs.

***

If the penalty is maximal with the attribute assault. The costs are simple equal to defences.
The attribute assault will only cause extra costs for the assault that costs 1 AP.
Every assault unit can do a normal assault and pay 3 AP, while the penalty is 2, or 4/6th.

The extra damage is now NOT depending on the movement speed...
I need to think about this

I figured, completing everything before testing something with more detailed variables would be best.

But figuring that I could assign any penalty as default, that I want to the dodging mechanic.
It doesn't really matter what I do.

In a sense, if an unit moves away from a target location. The damage dealt is between 0 and 100%.
50% remains the average in this.
The choice is by the target, even if the order of the choice is different in the 2 situations.
So the effect should be 50% of this.
We are now at 75%. Or a 4.5/6th penalty.

It is going to be a roll on top of any Assault roll.
Not sure if I should stick with 4/6th. Or actually make this a 5/6th roll.
I prefer the 4/6th. Since this was applied the most in the original settings.

Also, if the penalty is adjusted due to projectile flying speeds.
4/6th would always be 100%.

4/6th is on top of the 6/6th of a non moving target.
But has to be taken for 50% since it is a choice.
So the default total is 8, which is 100% weapon costs.

Then 12.5% can be added every step.
The costs can range from 50% to 125%.

***

Then again, the faster a target moves. The more expensive it is. In a sense, they pay for movement speed. So, if this is supposed to be a variable, so be it.
I tried some figures again. But they all result in some bad numbers that I can't work with.

If you want your squad to use an Action that uses the move AND attack command. Your squad will receive a penalty on its damage.
For each projectile, a die has to be rolled. Roll a 2 or less, and the projectile is removed from the damage pool.

If your squad contains units with the Assault Attribute. It will always add the missing command to that unit. If you attack, a movement order is automatically assigned. If you move, an attack order is automatically assigned. Your squad might receive a penalty on its damage.
For each projectile, a die has to be rolled. Roll the penalty or less, and the projectile is removed from the damage pool.
This Penalty is by default 3.
The Penalty linked to the Attribute Assault, is displayed on the Unit Statistics Card.

When you order your squad to attack a moving target. Or the target decides to move after you issued your command. Your squad might receive a penalty on its damage.
For each projectile, a die has to be rolled. Roll the penalty or less, and the projectile is removed from the damage pool.
This Penalty is by default 2.
The Penalty linked to the target following a move command, is displayed on the Unit Statistics Card.

The old version had a 5/6th roll every penalty.
And this penalty was linked to the attack distance and movement speed.
While Assault shared in this, let's remind ourselves that assault is using a movement as well. The penalty can be a 1 way trip as well.

I have 2 options left to test:
- Based on movement.
- Based on attack distance AND movement.

I prefer the latter, because there you can use melee units to defend better against moving targets. Which include the mines.

***

So the original idea was to have attack distance and enemy movement speed to be compared. The lowest ammount would be the penalty used on the dice.

If I have the attack distance included. I need to keep this in mind with the balancing.

A 0 ranged unit would have a chance to attack from a distance of 1 though. This is a game rule that fixes issue's of melee not being able to share the same location.

Let's disregard the "bonus +1 attack range" rule.

So, 0 range would mean 100% chance to hit.
1 range would add a penalty of 1.

0 range is 60% in weight.
1 range is supposed to be 90% in weight.
2 is 120%.
+1 is +30% weight. etc.

If I keep looking at it like that. Then having the penalty removed by a special attribute; increase the weight in a cumulative sense. But I need to make sure, that the penalty is cumulative and not exponential.

This means that a penalty of 6 is simply a 0% chance to hit.
Either the attack distance is 6 or the movement speed is 6.

And the weight is going to be 50% of influence since it is a choice by the enemy.

Not sure. But I think I need to see if I can even apply modifications at all.

When there is 0 movement speed, but still the choice to move. The penalty would happen....
So, the penalty should be based on movement speed anyway.

Or else, it can be abused.

***

The penalty needs to be linked to the actual movement speed in the action move.

Let's say, 1 for each movement speed.
6 or more is simply a penalty of 6.

A movement speed of 7 or more will cost more to the player. But it will continue the lineair weight.

So, it will only have use if the attacking enemy has an adjustment to the penalty. And this adjustment can only be lineair in this regard....

I need to separate the attack distance and the movement speed here.

So I am taking one step backwards.

Since I try to combine movement speed with attack distance. It is still too hard to resolve the issue.

If a movement of 6 happens. A distance of 6 should also be applied.

A melee unit would always have an attack distance of 0.
Thus an adjustment to this would be nonsense.

I need to think careful of the attack range in combination with the movement speed.

Let's assume that the enemy moves with any speed for now.
And since it is a choice, the weight adjustment is only 50%.
Since the penalty is steps of 1/6th or 16.7%, this would mean a 1/12th or 8.3% adjustment.

A melee weight is 60%.
An attack range of 1 has melee of 60% and +30% for that one range.
The adjustment is only applied to that attack distance of 1.
And can only be adjusted by 1.
The penalty can be 0, 1 by default, or 2 or more.
When adjusted to a penalty of 0, the adjustment is 30% + 1/12th = 32.5%.
The new weapon would weight 92.5%.

If the adjustment is -1...
Well, now I see another issue.

If the enemy doesn't move. The adjustment of -1 would make the weapon weaker.

Thus it has to be a factor in the end anyway... I am not sure, how to do this.

0 remains 0 this way.
But the 1 can be multiplied by a whole number only.

1 multiplied by 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6.

If a higher range is used, like for example 2. We are left with 0, 1, 2 or 3.

A weapon range of 6 or higher can only have 0 or 1.
This leaves me with a bad aftertaste.

I am stuck here. I want a lineair approach. But the mechanics only allow a factor for fair play.

Still not sure how to do this. But I am going to map out a bit first.

The unit has an attack range; does an attack at a certain range, and the enemy does a movement of speed. Then a penalty occurs.

Attack range 0:
0/0: 0
0/1: 0
0/2: 0
etc.

This list can expand into infinite speed.
I think that is where one of my problems is located.
Because once an unit is able to receive a penalty, this too goes into infinity in regards of movement speed.
That is not all, the attack range can go beyond 6, which is a maximum penalty. And this too can go into infinity.

Then again, if the attack range is 0. Yet the unit is at an attack range of 1. The penalty can be considered 6 anyways.

Maybe I can do something with that.

Perhaps I should return to the exponential penalties...
Where a hit is still possible, no matter how far or fast the target is.
Because this way, an attribute on the projectile speed can be applied in an algebra sense of way.

I also don't have to look at the attack distance every time.
Since a double distance would double the penalty. But not double the adjustments by attributes.

Of course, I need to reconsider the average damage when the projectile speed hits infinity. Meaning hitting a non moving target is 100%. Yet a moving target yields 0%. The -100% is only applied for 50% since it is a choice. And the average is between 100% and 50%. Thus 75%.

The extra damage that an unit can achieve by this method is 33%. This is acceptable.

***

The other extreme?
If a moving target yields 100%.
The default is what matters?
Every attack range has a different default penalty.
But maybe I should simply count from the 75% from the previous one.
Which logically speaking could be either 125% or 133%. I don't know this yet. But it is getting a bit too far fetched. I am going to give it a rest for now.

I have only 1 option that result in a number that is too high for normal play.

Adding up the movement speed and attack distance. Would always result in a penalty, even when the target isn't moving.

Thus the only option that remains is multiplying the attack distance with the movement speed.

This way, if a target doesn't move. No penalty is applied.
And if a fast unit crosses a melee unit. Again, no penalty.

Of course, I could stick with my original idea. And simply have the melee units a penalty modifier. But I rather have something linked to the actually moving distance.

***

I think I also have to stick with the exponential nature of the penalty. Where each penalty is a 5/6th roll for success.
A penalty of 10 would result in a 1/6th roll.

Seeing as how this is a default effect. All units have this.
And it kinda made sense of why you would get even faster units on the map.

***

I can go back to the old design.
Assault has been separated. And I am happy with the results there.

The last thing that remains is deciding on how the attribute for altered projectile velocity would work. Or better yet, how it would be balanced.

Ah yes, I forgot one of the paradoxes in that regard.

I cannot make an attribute that fixes the Action Assault.
Because if I did, some units would never use Assault.
And there are even units that never CAN use Assault....
like defences.

Once again. I come back to the fact that the weight of an Assault should also be based on the movement speed.

Even if it is a simple factor of 4/6th for the action.
The default costs is 100%.
But any adjustment should be based on the movement speed.

That means that slower units have less adjustment.

But it also means that the penalty should be linked again to the movement speed.

The conclusion here is that structures and defence buildings "can use" assault. But have not effect from it since their movement is 0.
The action is automatically not used.
And the attribute, even added, would not have any effect either.

So, movement speed has to be included in the effect and in the weight balance.

I am back to the starting square.

I need to consider using the new system.
1 penalty, no matter what speed is used.
But only for the assault.

The penalty is 0 for 0 speed.
And 2 for any other speed.
But if i want a modifier, the weight can still be based on the speed.

I also need to see how i pull this one off.
But having a penalty adjustment while the speed is only 1. This should be lower than when the speed is higher.

And thus, there is no adjustment when the speed is 0.
But with 0 speed, the assault is simply not allowed.

Once succesfull. I could have different adjustments for units with higher speed.
For example, an unit will have no penalty at 1 speed assault. Yet 3 penalty when the speed is 4.
This, while the default penalty is 2.
So, 1 speed has -2, 1 speed has -1 and 1 speed has +1.

The attribute assault unit can have the same system. While the default is a penalty of 3.
This allows for the attribute assault unit to have different penalties as well.
If the attribute assault unit still decides to NOT move. There is no penalty either.

It looks like this:
0 speed, 0 penalty
1 speed, 2 penalty
2 speed, 2 penalty
3 speed, 2 penalty etc.

I already see 1 way of abusement.
Some assault units might only have 100% hit chance at the maximum speed. While the rest is 0%. This would render the unit cheaper...
An unit could move in 2 regions constantly...

Now to work this out and see if it finally works? And a way to prevent the abuse.

The old system increased the penalty when the movement increased...
So perhaps i should only have the factor touch all speeds at the same time.

Oh, perhaps the seeker formula might help here :)

The Adjustment is never allowed to go beyond -1 and +1.
I made an excel to see if this holds true.

At a movement speed of 3, the adjustments are between:
-0.5 and +0.5 for the Attribute.
-0.5 and +0.25 for the Action.

When taking infinite movement speed, the adjustments are between:
-1.0 and +1.0 for the Attribute.
-1.0 and +0.5 for the Action.

Ok, I got that one covered.
The true adjustment should be only 50% of this since it is a choice.
But I need to double check several aspects.
Through discussion with myself (who else)

-0.5 for the Attribute AND -0.5 for the Action??
This would be at infinite speed. When doing an Assault, the unit will appear anywhere on the map. And the attack is performed from anywyere. If the adjustment is that the unit is not able to attack when moving. It would be a normal move.
The weight of the weapon is only 50%. And the total weight of the unit is 75% on average.
The Action might as well be a move only, every time. So, the action is not chosen. But the unit is cheaper.

In case of the Attribute, the AP is less. And in case of the Action, the AP is not less, but simply not chosen.
In fact, I have now created an anti attribute. And applying the Attribute doesn't change this.
Both designs cost the same too. And the effects are the same.

+0.5 for the Attribute AND +0.25 for the Action??
When choosing the Action Assault. The accuracy doesn't go down. The same is valid for the Attribute Assault.
But the Attribute Assault is not a choice, and thus twice as high.
KEKS confirmed!!!!

Now then, in order to see the average costs of said units?
150% weapon for the attribute
125% weapon for the action
125% if the unit has the attribute without penalty
112.5% if the unit uses the action without penalty

I need to keep in mind that the Action Assault costs 3 AP.
+25% on the average unit costs is a good number.
And the weapon itself would do only 4/6th of damage if the weapon weight is set back to 100% through other means.
For the Action, this set back is 4/5th.

Default Action would have a 67% effect.
With modification to 6/6th, the damage goes down to 80%.
Default Attribute would have a 50% effect.
With modification to 6/6th, the damage goes down to 67%.

Not using the default Assault, would be 100% or 100% damage.
Not using the modified Assault would be 80% or 67% damage.
Using the default Assault, would be 67% or 50% damage.
Using the modified Assault, would be 80% or 67% damage.

With infinite speed:
The average damage for the defaults are 83% or 75%.
The average damage for the modifided are 80% or 67%.

Luckily these still go down.
When modified to 0 damage instead. The option for doing Assault goes away.

Abuse?
Let's see what happens when Assault is not an option to make 100% sure it works.

Now then, in order to see the average costs of said units?
50% weapon for the attribute
50% weapon for the action
75% if the unit has the attribute without penalty
75% if the unit uses the action without penalty

The weapon itself would do twice the damage if the weapon weight is set back to 100% through other means.

Default Action would have a 67% or 50% effect.
With modification to 0/6th, the damage goes up to 200%.

Not using the default Assault, would be 100% damage.
Not using the modified Assault would be 200% damage.
Using the default Assault, would be 67% or 50% damage.
Using the modified Assault, would be 0% damage.

With infinite speed:
The average damage for the defaults are 83% or 75%.
The average damage for the modifided are 100%.

The not usable Attribute shows a higher rise of average damage.
Should I think about this?

***

Better not, because both the Action and the Attribute designs that can't do Assault. Ended up to cost the same and have the same mechanics now.

It simply means that the spectrum of the Attribute is a bit larger. But 0 is 0 and the 100% simply are in different spots.