Skip to Content
 

Too much fidling?

298 replies [Last post]
questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Getting back to the 2nd D8 (maybe?)

questccg wrote:
What we need is a CUSTOM D8 to establish the right BALANCE and it looks like this:

1/5 = 20%
1/4 = 25%
2/5 = 40%
1/2 = 50%
3/5 = 60%
3/4 = 75%
4/5 = 80%
1/1 = 100%

Remember in terms of accuracy, I had proposed this Custom D8 which is a percentile accuracy die ... But using SIMPLE MATH (like 1/2 or 1/5, etc.) The percentages would be HIDDEN from the players, all they would know is that there are two (2) Custom D8s they need to roll:

1. a D8 to determine which Troops are ready to attack (000 to 111).

2. a D8 to determine accuracy in terms of the battle (1/5 to 1/1).

I personally don't know if I would favor an RPS over an accuracy dice. Not sure TBH. I just thought that maybe bringing back the Custom D8 with the odds-based calculations might be of interest.

What do you think???

Would this die be of any use (in general) when determining the efficacity of a set of Troops...? I'm just asking because I'm wondering if it needs to be re-introduced into the mix, to make the simulation more accurate.

What are your thoughts on this matter... And do you think this accuracy roll could eliminate the need for an RPS even if natural?!

Note #1: I also made a prototype of this accuracy die too... I like having "tangible" assets which tie me to a project. For some reason the dice manufacturer has changed their DPI from 300 to 150 and changed the overall dimensions of the Files for the various faces of the dice.

I will wait until the I receive the dice to check to correctness. But I suppose that the changes are to improve the overall resolutions and impression of the the making of the dice.

If NOT, well then I will submit another Ticket to ensure that I can have the RIGHT saved projects for future use. This CHANGING on resolution and dimensions is a bit of an issue if you want the dice to look good in the future and also to be allowed to EDIT a project once it is purchased (sort of re-edit feature...)

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Accuracy as a factor doesn't work.

Calculating a fraction is too much work for players.

I am working on something that does the work for the players. And Then the roll for a group isn't needed either.

Thinking about having the number of hits as an output per card.

Not sure how yet. But I am thinking about having a couple of dice being rolled. Then the score will determine if a card has 1 or multiple hits. The multiple hits are based on the card having multiple projectiles.

Flamethrower has for example 3 projectiles of 1 damage each.
Each projectile is supposed to have a percentage chance to hit. Of course having 2 hits and 1 miss is linked to a certain score as well.

The "old school" variant had a basic accuracy of 50% and an extra accuracy of 50%. Thus 25% per projectile. The number of projectiles that at least can hit:
0: 100%
1: 87.5%
2: 50%
3: 12.5%

If I am to roll for example 4d6 for all cards. The scores needed to simulate those hits are:
0: 4; 100%
1: 11; 84%
2: 15; 44%
3: 19; 10%

A rifleman would have only 1 projectile.
1: 50% would translate into:
1: 15; 44%

So, as you can see, I am not sure about this.
The more dice, the better the result.
Perhaps 2d10 would be good as well. Because then I can round it down to %. And it would be a roll of "this" or less.

0: 100%
1: 88%
2: 50%
3: 13%

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
What about another Custom 1D8 like this...?

I was thinking that maybe another Custom D8 could maybe be used in something like this:

1: 0%
2: 25%
3: 50%
4: 75%
5: 25%
6: 50%
7: 75%
8: 100%

Both 0% and 100% occur once in 8 chances. But the other percentiles occur 1 in 4 or 25% of the time. I know this is a percentile dice... Maybe it can be transformed into a fractions dice like my earlier sample with:

1: 0/1
2: 1/4
3: 1/2
4: 3/4
5: 1/4
6: 1/2
7: 3/4
8: 1/1

It reduces the amount of MATH considerable. Only Divide by 2 or 4. What do you think of this CUSTOM D8??? Thoughts...?

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Calculating Fractions using Integers can be easy too...?

I mean let's say you have 5 Troops 1/20/10x 0.1 = 1/20/1 DMG.

=> 5x 1/20/1 = 5x 1 x 1/4 = 5/4 = 1

This is INTEGER MATH no fractions: 5/4 = 1.25 or "How many 4s in a 5?" = 1.

In this case the Accuracy is 25% (1/4).

It's not too difficult if you just focus on the method of dividing integers only! I believe it is much more understandable than percentages (25% in this example). Maybe even simpler than a D10 with 10% increments. For example: what is 30%???

This is difficult because it it NOT 1/3 (=33%). So PERCENTILE (even 10% increments) can be very difficult to work with. Meanwhile my CUSTOM D8s are much more FLEXIBLE and doing INTEGER DIVISION is much, much, much simpler than hard percentile math (like 30% or 70%, etc.)

Your thoughts???

I personally feel like the Integer Fractions are simpler to handle than percentiles. If you need to ALWAYS convert 50% to 1/2 ... Might as well have "1/2" on the dice since it is much more intuitive and EASIER To work with...

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Or another alternative...

If you want to work with D6s ... Maybe this might be easier to handle:

1: 0%
2: 20%
3: 40%
4: 60%
5: 80%
6: 100%

Or using some Integer Fractions like this:

1: 0/5
2: 1/5
3: 2/5
4: 3/5
5: 4/5
6: 5/5

I know Division by 0 is undefined... It's "0" Accuracy meaning a voided attack (deals 0 DMG). So I made it a 0 divided by 5 which means "0"...

That could be another alternative and it is ALWAYS divided by "5" (in this specific case using a Custom D6).

Again your thoughts???

I'm just working on simple percentages that can be easily computed using INTEGER math and not factions (x.25, y.5, z.75, etc.)

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
questccg wrote: Or using some

questccg wrote:

Or using some Integer Fractions like this:

1: 0/5
2: 1/5
3: 2/5
4: 3/5
5: 4/5
6: 5/5


d6 -1
:)

This... gives me an idea. I think a good one this time.

I used a very linear approach like this in my prototype board game. However, the board game had multiple dice rolling for it.

The card game needs like.... less.

Oh, how about this?
The player rolls 5 dice. Every die is worth 1/5th or 20%.

If the accuracy of a card is 4/6th. Then you roll the 5 dice. Those which are 4 or less count.

Let's say, the player rolls 1,1,3,5,6
The all cards with accuracy 1 or 2, get 40%.
All cards with accuracy 3 or 4 get 60%.
All cards with accuracy 5 get 80%.
All cards with accuracy 6 get 100%.

Obviously, 1 projectile needs to have an accuracy of 6 in order to be of use. Any less, and the player needs to roll 5 sixes.
2 projectiles need to have 60% or more, in order to have at least 1 hit.
3 projectiles can do with 40% or more.
5 projectiles or more, can do with 20%.

Let's assume we have:
60 of 1 accuracy
30 of 2 accuracy
20 of 3 accuracy
15 of 4 accuracy
12 of 5 accuracy
10 of 6 accuracy
And any hit here is 1 damage point.

Let's see how the results are with the averane and 1 standard deviation away from the average:
1 accuracy: 0 to 10 to 20 hits
2 accuracy: 4 to 10 to 16 hits
3 accuracy: 6 to 10 to 14 hits
4 accuracy: 7 to 10 to 13 hits
5 accuracy: 8 to 10 to 12 hits
6 accuracy: 10 to 10 to 10 hits

The total here is: 35 to 60 to 85 hits

The same can be done if I do 10% per die success. So the players can divide by a clean 10. Which might be best if I keep the basic accuracy separated. Dividing by 5 and then by 2 is a total of dividing by 10 :)

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
More dice again???

X3M wrote:
questccg wrote:

Or using some Integer Fractions like this:

1: 0/5
2: 1/5
3: 2/5
4: 3/5
5: 4/5
6: 5/5


d6 -1...

Not really ... It's a D6 with six sides and six values. Accuracy ranges from 0% to 100% in Fractions (all divisible by 5) to keep it as SIMPLE as possible.

X3M wrote:
Let's say, the player rolls 1,1,3,5,6
The all cards with accuracy 1 or 2, get 40%.
All cards with accuracy 3 or 4 get 60%.
All cards with accuracy 5 get 80%.
All cards with accuracy 6 get 100%.

I don't know why you have a fixation with more Dice???!!! That's 5 dice for one set of troops... You may need to do this FOUR (4) or FIVE (5) times a TURN! That's like rolling 20 to 25 dice!!!

My goal here is to help you realize that 3 DICE per troops (Max) is enough:

A> To determine if that troop is ready and rolls in sets of 3s (000 to 111).

B> An Accuracy roll for those troops that are ready (0 to 3).

That's pretty much as SIMPLE as it can get. I haven't figured out how to make it any EASIER than this. Based on our discussion, it seems like you still favor MORE dice and I favor a MINIMUM of dice (1-2 dice rolls on the average). If you do this four (4) or five (5) times, it's 8 to 10 dice being rolled... VERY REALISTIC.

Not in terms of simulation, but in terms of how many dice people will want to roll before deciding that this game is purely about rolling a ton of dice.

And the Accuracy roll just does the benefit of making an attack LESS effective and not have to be so complex that nobody will understand WHY(?) they are rolling 5 dice and why they need to repeat this 4 or 5 times PER TURN.

Anyhow I hope you see MY approach and see how much easier it is to roll 2D8s.

Best!

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Procedure for combat

So I'm just thinking about how to handle the combat phase. And it goes like something like this:

A> Player chooses an platoon (Army) (Selection)

B> Player rolls 4D8s: 1D8 (000 to 111) and 3D8 (Accuracy rolls)

C> Player then looks at the Tactical Die (Readiness die) and sees that it's a "011". This can mean two (2) things (depending on the complexity of the game).

1. The first platoon is unable to battle this turn.

2. OR two (2) platoons of your choice may battle this turn.

D> Then given the 3D8 (Accuracy rolls), select which two (2) dice you want to use for the two (2) platoons (ignoring 1D8).

E> Use the Total Attack = [Number of units] x [Unit Damage] x [Accuracy Roll]

***

All that sounds good and reasonable (given some compromising on the dice count) but it's doesn't explain how the OPPONENT reacts. Given that you are ATTACKING my assumption is that the attacker "CHOOSES" his opponent.

But there is a lot more... Like matching up platoon types and how to coordinate the attack (what unit vs. what opposing unit). This IMHO is far from over. And is the most complicated thinking that I've ever had to ponder for a "Game".

Any thoughts???

And BTW I don't mind if you prefer a solution with MORE dice. Whatever works for you. I'm just saying I'm trying to keep the amount of dice LOW (as low as possible) due to the repetitive nature of a turn (or what seems to be ATM)!

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
questccg wrote: X3M

questccg wrote:

X3M wrote:
Let's say, the player rolls 1,1,3,5,6
The all cards with accuracy 1 or 2, get 40%.
All cards with accuracy 3 or 4 get 60%.
All cards with accuracy 5 get 80%.
All cards with accuracy 6 get 100%.

I don't know why you have a fixation with more Dice???!!! That's 5 dice for one set of troops... You may need to do this FOUR (4) or FIVE (5) times a TURN! That's like rolling 20 to 25 dice!!!


No, it really is only 5 dice for the entire army this time.

Why 5? Because then every die is a nice 20% hits.
I had that idea when you suggested 1 die for 20% per dot.

Anyway, here are some examples:

Player A has:
- 7 riflemen, 1 projectile each, accuracy 3, damage 1
- 5 grenadiers, 1 projectile each, accuracy 3, damage 3
- 4 attack buggies, 2 projectile each, accuracy 4, damage 1
- 3 quads, 1 projectile each, accuracy 3, damage 3

Player A rolls the 5 dice:
13456.
Each projectile gets a 20% if a die is equal or lower than its accuracy.

The 1 gives all projectiles 20%
The 3 gives all projectiles another 20%
The 4 gives only the attack buggies another 20%
So, accuracy 3 has 40% hits.
accuracy 4 has 60% hits.

7x1x 2/5 = 2.8
5x1x 2/5 = 2
4x2x 3/5 = 4.8
3x1x 2/5 = 1.2

I can still choose if I rather have the projectiles being increased. As if numerous are fired on the enemy. And then simply consider a card having 5 hit points. Or divide as such and then round it (down, up, don't know yet either)

I prefer the hit point method.
So then I got 14+24 is 38 of damage 1.
And 10+6 is 16 of damage 3.

Of course, I also rather divided by 10 istead of 5, so the basic durability is included.

If any vehicle can be targeted, then I certainly would do that before I look at the infantry. But with the current score. 54 damage is ready for infantry, 86 damage is ready for vehicles or above.
5 infantry could be killed.
Or 2 vehicles.

Player B has:
- 7 attack buggies, 2 projectile each, accuracy 4, damage 1
- 4 missile launchers, 3 projectile each, accuracy 4, damage 3
- 5 combat tanks, 1 projectile each, accuracy 3, damage 9

Player B rolls 13344.
It looks like that only the combat tanks have less effect.
60% for them.

7x2x5=70 of damage 1
4x3x5=60 of damage 3
5x1x3=15 of damage 9

Possible killings:
- 14 infantry
- or 9 vehicles
- or 4 tanks

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
I think I got it right in anydice now

Let's see what the chances are to roll a factor for each accuracy

Accuracy 1:
0; 40%
1; 40%
2; 16%
3; 3%
4; 0%
5; 0%

Accuracy 2:
0; 13%
1; 33%
2; 33%
3; 16%
4; 4%
5; 0%

Accuracy 3:
0; 3%
1; 15%
2; 31%
3; 31%
4; 15%
5; 3%

Accuracy 4:
0; 0%
1; 4%
2; 16%
3; 33%
4; 33%
5; 13%

Accuracy 5:
0; 0%
1; 0%
2; 3%
3; 16%
4; 40%
5; 40%

Accuracy 6:
5; 100%

***

Most defences have an accuracy of 6. These would be numbers, easily given to the player. It would make the game a bit boring again.

But overall, I am happy with the results. Now for a good playtest.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Need some clarifications

X3M wrote:
No, it really is only 5 dice for the entire army this time. Why 5? Because then every die is a nice 20% hits...

OMG I am finally understanding your math...! I understood the whole 20%+ depending on the accuracy of the unit.

X3M wrote:
I prefer the hit point method. So then I got 14+24 is 38 of damage 1. And 10+6 is 16 of damage 3.

But you list me there with the "hit point method" and the values. Can you explain better HOW(?) you get these numbers???

***

X3M wrote:
If any vehicle can be targeted, then I certainly would do that before I look at the infantry. But with the current score. 54 damage is ready for infantry, 86 damage is ready for vehicles or above. 5 infantry could be killed. Or 2 vehicles.

Again I am lost where the 54 damage comes from or the 86 damage... Need some further explanation!

X3M wrote:
Player B has:
- 7 attack buggies, 2 projectile each, accuracy 4, damage 1
- 4 missile launchers, 3 projectile each, accuracy 4, damage 3
- 5 combat tanks, 1 projectile each, accuracy 3, damage 9

Player B rolls 13344.
It looks like that only the combat tanks have less effect.
60% for them.

7x2x5=70 of damage 1
4x3x5=60 of damage 3
5x1x3=15 of damage 9

Possible killings:
- 14 infantry
- or 9 vehicles
- or 4 tanks

Can you explain the "x5" or "x3" multiplier??? Like 5x1x3 = 15. 15 What??? Damage? And if so how does it kill 4 Tanks?? When a Tank requires 9 Damage to be defeated??? Muchly confused with this 2nd set of numbers...

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Ok, let's explain it in a bit different way

I am going to try to explain it in terms of what players might be placing on the table.

Basics:
Tier 1, Costs 1, Armor 1 or Damage 1
Tier 2, Costs 2, Armor 3 or Damage 3
Tier 3, Costs 4, Armor 9 or Damage 9

Since units can defend AND attack, their damage weights twice. Either way, the list below are just many examples.

Rifleman:
Costs 2
Armor 1
Damage 1, accuracy 3

Grenadier:
Costs 3
Armor 1
Damage 3, accuracy 3

Rocket soldier:
Costs 5
Armor 1
Damage 9, accuracy 3

Guard Tower:
Costs 4
Armor 3
Damage 3 of 1, accuracy 4

Attack Buggy:
Costs 4
Armor 3
Damage 2 of 1, accuracy 3

Quad:
Costs 6
Armor 3
Damage 3, accuracy 6

Flamethrower:
Costs 5
Armor 1
Damage 3 of 1, accuracy 4

Wooden Fence:
Costs 1
Armor 1

Sand Bags:
Costs 2
Armor 3

Concrete Wall:
Costs 4
Armor 9

Combat Tank:
Costs 8
Armor 9
Damage 9, accuracy 3

Missile Tank:
Costs 10
Armor 3
Damage 3+3+3, with accuracy 3+4+5

Rocket Tank:
Costs 12
Armor 9
Damage 9+9+9, with accuracy 1+2+3

Flame ATV:
Costs 7
Armor 3
Damage 3 of 1, accuracy 5

Flame Tank:
Costs 9
Armor 9
Damage 2 of 1, accuracy 2
Damage 1, accuracy 3
Damage 2 of 1, accuracy 4

***

Ok, I hope I calculated those right.
Please notice, I didn't add any slow projectiles in there.

Let's say, a player can spend 30 credits.

Player A spends it on 15 riflemen.
Player B spends it on 6 flamethrowers.

Player A rolls 12356
Player B rolls 33456

A rifleman has an accuracy of 3. With the roll, 3 out of the 5 dice are a succes.
We have 15 riflemen.
Each shoots 1 projectile of 1 damage.
The projectiles hitrate is 3.

number of units x projectiles x succesrate = score

15 x 1 x 3 = 45
45 damage, 4 infantry units can be killed with this.

A flamethrower has an accuracy of 4. With the roll, 3 out of the 5 dice are a succes.
We have 6 flamethrowers.
Each shoots 3 projectiles of 1 damage.
The projectiles hitrate is 3.
6 x 3 x 3 = 54
54 damage, 5 infantry units can be killed with this.

After 1 battle, 10 riflemen and only 1 flamethrower remain.

***

Player C chooses to get 5 Attack Buggies and 5 riflemen.

Player C rolls 12356.

The Attack Buggies have an accuracy of 3. With the roll, 3 out of the 5 dice are a succes.
The same goes for the riflemen.
Each Attack Buggie shoots 2 projectiles of 1 damage.
The riflemen shoot 1 projectile of 1 damage.
5 x 2 x 3 = 30
5 x 1 x 3 = 15
45 damage in total. Just like player A.

While player A would be losing 4 riflement to player C.
Player C can choose to put the Attack Buggies in front.
45/3=15.
So only 1 Attack Buggie would die here.

If this was against player B. Then 54/3=18
And player B would also only be able to kill 1 attack buggy.

***

Player D chooses to get 3 Missile Tanks.
And rolls 12456.

The accuracies per projectile are: 3, 4 and 5.
This means that the projectiles with accuracy 3 have a succes of 2.
The projectiles with accuracy 4, have a succes of 3.
And the projectiles with accuracy 5, have a succes of 4.

3 x 1 x 2 = 6
3 x 1 x 3 = 9
3 x 1 x 4 = 12
Total of 27, but remember, the damage is 3 each.

Against player A and B, only 2 infantry units can be killed.
In return, A is able to kill 45/3=15, thus 1 missile tank.
In return, B is able to kill 54/3=18, thus 1 missile tank.

Against player C, things can go good or bad.
If player C uses the riflemen as fodder. Then D can kill 2 infantry units.
But if player C uses the attack buggies as fodder, Then D can kill 27x3/3=27, thus 2 attack buggies.
In return, C can also kill only 1 missile tank.

So far, D is doing the worst.

***

Player E chooses 3 Flame Tanks.
And 3 wooden Fences for the fun of it...

E rolls: 12345

Damage 2 of 1, accuracy 2
Damage 1, accuracy 3
Damage 2 of 1, accuracy 4

So, this means that accuracy 2 has a succes of 2, 3 has 3 and 4 has 4.
3 x 2 x 2 = 12
3 x 1 x 3 = 9
3 x 2 x 4 = 24
A total of 45.
Well then, 4 infantry units can die again.
Or 1 vehicle.

But the return fire from the players...
A has 45/9=5
B has 54/9=6
C has 45/9=5
D has 27*3/9=9

None of them reached 10. So none of them are able to kill a flame tank.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Re-rolling

When 5 dice are rolled. I could allow for the player to re-roll a bad die. But only the lower accuracies would benefit from this the most.

Either way, with 5d6, we have 6^5=7776 possibilities.
Rolling 11111 is a rare opportunity for an accuracy of 1 to be 100% effective.
An average weapon with accuracy 3 is 3 times as expensive.

Another option is to have the players gain more or less dice due to cards.

5 would be the balance.
But +1 d6 would be an upgrade to the whole army.

***

I am not sure.
But I think the combat mechanic has a good basis now?

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Why are you mysteriously DIVIDING by 10???

X3M wrote:
We have 15 riflemen. Each shoots 1 projectile of 1 damage. The projectiles hit-rate is 3.

number of units x projectiles x success rate = score

15 x 1 x 3 = 45
45 damage, 4 infantry units can be killed with this.

I think I almost understood EVERYTHING except how 45 damage = only 4 infantry units killed???

I see that you are doing a DIVISION by 10. So 45/10 = 4.5 or 4 units rounded down. But what is the LOGIC behind the division???

Can you please explain this???

I think that it is the DETAIL that I am not yet understanding fully...

Many thanks @X3M!

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Also ...

Here are my "Tiers" with regards to the TYPE of weaponry being used. What do you think is this a fairly comprehensive list of genres???

Tier Description Color
I Assault/Concussion Rifle White
II Grenade/Fragmentation Green
III Flaming/Inferno Yellow
IV Machine Gun/Rapid-Fire Blue
V Rocket/Missile Launcher Red
VI Sonic/Ultrasonic Purple
VII Microwave/Radiation Orange
VIII Special Forces Black

What do you think??? Is this table of EIGHT (8) "Tiers" Accurate enough?

The "Special Forces" is divided into FOUR (4) distinct and unique Technologies:

A> Cloaking: Paint and colors not just radar and such.
B> Nuclear: Not available to all classes of units.
C> Plasma: Effective against all units (Troops and motorized units).
D> Chemical: Effective only against Troops but produces dire effects.

Player's get to choose their "Special Forces" unique ability at the start of the game. There are four (4) possibilities and so therefore this is at max a four (4) player game.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Here are my classes which are to be used as guidelines

I am also planning to use this table of CLASSES for the various units:

Class Weight/Cost Armor/Damage
1 20 1
2 40 2
3 60 3
4 80 4
5 100 5
6 125 10
7 150 15
8 175 20
9 200 25
10 225 30

Obviously these are Guidelines to generating all the units for the game. I know my system is not a mathematically correct but it divides the units into two (2) broader categories: Troops and Motorized Units.

Troops and Soldiers are Classes 1 to 4, Vehicles are Classes 5 to 15 and Airborne Units are 20 to 30. That's my "general" classification of the units.

Note #1: As per your own math, I guess you could say that a Apache Helicopter costs 8.75 times a Class 1 Trooper but is 20 times more powerful. I guess for now this is all good. Not the same proportions and power... But not unreasonable in my own opinion!

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
questccg wrote:X3M wrote:We

questccg wrote:
X3M wrote:
We have 15 riflemen. Each shoots 1 projectile of 1 damage. The projectiles hit-rate is 3.

number of units x projectiles x success rate = score

15 x 1 x 3 = 45
45 damage, 4 infantry units can be killed with this.

I think I almost understood EVERYTHING except how 45 damage = only 4 infantry units killed???

I see that you are doing a DIVISION by 10. So 45/10 = 4.5 or 4 units rounded down. But what is the LOGIC behind the division???

Can you please explain this???

I think that it is the DETAIL that I am not yet understanding fully...

Many thanks @X3M!

The basic durability is set to be 2 for the game.
That means that every unit needs to be damaged twice by the most optimal projectile.

The 5 dice act as multipliers.
So 2x5=10
Players divide by the easy 10.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
How to determine if a card is a support card?

I am working at the combat mechanic, in terms of strategy now. And I want to go back to the freedom of war.

If a player attacks, it chooses targets. It is possible to send the entire army after one target. The enemy can now choose to protect the target. And send in cards to blcok incomming cards. 1 or multiple cards can be used for this as well. But you need to block each attacking card.

Now, the player build intuition on which cards are easy targets or not. But there is a way to calculate by looking at the statistics of those cards.

There are 2 steps. One of them is knowing the RPS mechanics. But that can be viewed in different lights. It is better to look at the total costs and notice what the damage can be.

All players have to do then is knowing that a 9 damage, is worth only 1/9th on an infantry unit.
So, the only value that needs to be adjusted in the mind is the damage value.

The strategic value of a card
We need some value's to work with.
- Costs of the card
- Damage
- Accuracy
- Number of projectiles

Our most basic unit:
Rifleman:
Costs 2
Armor 1
Damage 1, accuracy 3
We don't need that armor.

We multiply damage with accuracy and divide by the costs.

1x3/2=1.5

1.5 is the strategic value of a rifleman. This means that any value higher than this, means that the unit is of more importance than the riflemen. And thus needs help of the rifleman.

Grenadier:
Costs 3
Armor 1
Damage 3, accuracy 3

3x3/3=3.0

3.0 means that this unit is twice as important than a rifleman. But only against vehicles and tanks.

1x3/3=1.0

1.0 means that the same grenadier has less strategic value than a rifleman, when facing infantry. Which is very logical due to the RPS mechanics. If a player faces many infantry, it is better to keep producing riflemen. But if there are many vehicles, then the grenadier is the primairy choice of the 2.

In fact, if you see 10 infantry and 5 vehicles. You might want to use these factors to see which unit is more usefull to get.
10 x 1.5 = 15
5 x 3.0 = 15
In this case, a nice mix might be the players best option.

Now for the other examples, higher needs more protection:

1.5 - 1.5 - 1.5 Rifleman
1.0 - 3.0 - 3.0 Grenadier
0.6 - 1.8 - 5.4 Rocket soldier
3.0 - 3.0 - 3.0 Guard Tower (defence only)
1.5 - 1.5 - 1.5 Attack Buggy
1.0 - 3.0 - 3.0 Quad
2.4 - 2.4 - 2.4 Flamethrower
0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 Wooden Fence
0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 Sand Bags
0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 Concrete Wall
.375-1.125-3.375 Combat Tank
1.2 - 3.6 - 3.6 Missile Tank
0.5 - 1.5 - 4.5 Rocket Tank
2.14-2.14 -2.14 Flame ATV
1.67-1.67 -1.67 Flame Tank

Please note, this is only based on how much damage a card can do. Not on how much a card can block. That would be another list. The higher, the more strategic it is to use them as a block.

0.50 - 0.50 - 0.50 Rifleman
0.33 - 0.33 - 0.33 Grenadier
0.20 - 0.20 - 0.20 Rocket soldier
0.75 - 0.25 - 0.25 Guard Tower (defence only)
0.75 - 0.25 - 0.25 Attack Buggy
0.50 - 0.167- 0.167 Quad
0.20 - 0.20 - 0.20 Flamethrower
1.00 - 1.00 - 1.00 Wooden Fence
1.50 - 0.50 - 0.50 Sand Bags
2.25 - 0.75 - 0.25 Concrete Wall
1.125- 0.375- 0.125 Combat Tank
0.30 - 0.10 - 0.10 Missile Tank
0.75 - 0.25 - 0.083 Rocket Tank
0.429- 0.143- 0.143 Flame ATV
1.00 - 0.333- 0.111 Flame Tank

***

Well.... I don't see the player doing this though. But it sure is nice to have some comparisons.

I like how the flamethrower and the rocket soldier have the same protection value's. Now you can observe the differences in the weapons. And you can clearly tell that, while both are support units. Each has their own specific task. In the long run, you might want to sum the scores as well. And somehow the rocket soldier is slightly better of. However, the flamethrower is clearly a good option against the rocket soldier.

The best cards to use in order to block tier 3 weapons is the wooden fence. Although, maybe I should name it camouflage or something. There are also plenty of cards that can block plenty of tier 1 weaponry. The combat tank has a very good score on this, despite it being a unit. In fact, it scores better than the wooden fence.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Weight factors cards

Back to the abilities of the cards.

I got cards that are structures and units.
Structures can only defend. This includes walls. But what I need to EXCLUDE, are units without a weapon.
And I believe, I didn't do that yet...

If a card cannot attack. The weight should be 2/3th on the armor value...
Or if a card can attack (while not doing damage) The weight should be 3/2th of the armor value.

Maybe it is better to indicate that structures need 50% more hits. So, if the total roll indicates you do for example 84 damage. Then 8 units can die. But you need to divide by 15 for the number of structures. Which would be 5...

This division by 15 is hard to do for everyone.
Multiplying the durability by 2, makes the card cost 1.33
Multiplying the durability by 3, makes the card costs 2

So, perhaps I should have the 84/10=8.4
And every defence only card is twice as expensive, yet needs 3 points each.
Which would fit in nicely with the other magic 3's.

Guard Tower:
Costs 6
Armor 3 of 3
Damage 3 of 1, accuracy 4

Wooden Fence:
Costs 2
Armor 3 of 1

Sand Bags:
Costs 4
Armor 3 of 3

Concrete Wall:
Costs 8
Armor 3 of 9

***

Not sure yet about the attack now.
Perhaps I should have this standarized for both defence as offense.
Meaning that all damages should double?

Option 1:
10 dice insead of 5.
This makes the game too messy.
But is the most logical one.
Still 10d6 instead of 5d6... Lot's of dice again...

Option 2:
Each succes is worth 2
The score can be multiplied by 2 before dividing by 10.
But then we got an extra step for the players...

Option 3:
Each card has twice the number of projectiles.
But this is stupid...

I am going to let it rest for now.
Open to suggestions on this particular subject.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Back-tracking just a bit ... Because this was discarded

X3M wrote:
Option 2: Each success is worth 2.
The score can be multiplied by 2 before dividing by 10. But then we got an extra step for the players...

I am going to let it rest for now. Open to suggestions on this particular subject.

Okay let me recap a bit to ensure I am helping properly:

X3M wrote:
We have 15 riflemen. Each shoots 1 projectile of 1 damage. The projectiles hit-rate is 3.

number of units x projectiles x success rate = score

15 x 1 x 3 = 45
45 damage, 4 infantry units can be killed with this.

So option #2 means the "success rate" is double:

(15 x 1 x 3 x 2) = 90 = 90 / 10 = 9 Damage

Alternatively if you CONSIDER some of what I proposed with the Integer Fraction Dice (Custom D8s):

(15 x 1 x "Accuracy Die") = 15 x 1 x 1/5 = 3 Damage (on the LOW end) and 15 x 1 x 1/1 = 15 Damage (at the MAXIMUM end).

That "Accuracy Die" looks like this (Again):

questccg wrote:
What we need is a CUSTOM D8 to establish the right BALANCE and it looks like this:

1/5 = 20%
1/4 = 25%
2/5 = 40%
1/2 = 50%
3/5 = 60%
3/4 = 75%
4/5 = 80%
1/1 = 100%

15 x 1 x 3/5 = 45 / 5 = 9 DMG. The average is: 56.25% Close to the 3/5 (or 60%) marker of this Custom D8...

Your confusion can be easily simplified by using my Custom D8! It's pretty darn close to what you have, you roll a 1D8, you don't need to 2x"Y" or "Y"/10 ... This dice is much more ACCURATE than all the fiddling around with multipliers and an arbitrary division.

Again this is because I have mentioned this in the past and you disregarded it only to come up with a 5D6s and "Accuracy Values" for each unit. And now you are thinking about 10D6s...

BTW in my version, I am using the Custom D8. I already solved this particular issue. And here's what I do:

1. Roll Custom 1D8 "Tactical Readiness" die (000 to 111) with an average of (1.5 units ready).

2. Roll Custom 3D8s "Accuracy Check" dice (1/5 to 1/1) with an average of 56.25% (between 50% and 60%)

3. Given 2 methods of "Readiness" either it's a VALUE 0, 1, 2 or 3 or a specific unit type are ready such as "000" or "010" or "110", etc.

4. Choose which "Accuracy Check" die you want to use for each of your READY units.

Something along the lines of that... I don't think I need anything MORE complicated. Yes the Fraction Division is a bit more complicated for kids... TBH I think this kind of game would be for an older crowd: 15 to 25.

Anyways, feel free to share your own thoughts with me... Let me know what you think!

Cheers @X3M.

Note #1: I've also taken some decisions to ensure that each unit has three (3) distinct Tiers (3 out of 8) to add more future "variability" in terms of what is possible in "expansions". The possibilities per unit are 8 x 7 x 6 = 336 combos. That's a LOT of variability for ONLY one (1) unit.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
But I have thought about the d8

1 die is very linear.
And having an all or nothing approach is as how you said it. Not fun.

Using % in a game is also hard for players. Unless there is some sort of 2d10 being used. Either way, if % is used, it should be in a certain set.
d4, 25, 50, 75, 100
d5, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100
But not a combination? d8 would be like:
d8, 12.5, 25, 37.5, 50, 62.5, 75, 87.5, 100

I use a d6, but have cards that will always hit 100%.
Accuracy 6 will always hit.
Accuracy 5 will miss when a 6 is rolled.
Accuracy 4 will miss when a 5 or 6 is rolled.
etc.

Of course, 1d6 will have various results when the cards are a good mix. But this mix is hard to design. So, that is why I choose more dice. This way, lower accuracy has more chances of doing something instead of nothing.
Each die that is rolled as succes is considered a hit.
2d6 is optional. The result is divided by 2.
3d6 is optional. The result is divided by 3.
etc.

Of course d8 can be used. Then the card designs are not in steps of 1/6, but then in 1/8. Meaning that an accuracy of 8 is possible. Maybe it does make designing simpler.
And #d8 can be considered too, as long as the result is divided by #.

I noticed that a simple multiplication is easy to do for players. Even though, a lot of counting has to be done.
Then allocating the damage as if it is health points being removed works well. Especially if the damage is forced to go in a certain direction.

With the 5d6, I also don't need to select a line or group. The cards are free again. Which is something I prefer.

There is an option 4:
Dividing the end result by 5, not 10.
I think I go with that one. It is like doubling the score and dividing it by 10 though. I can let the players choose.

But then again, I can use any ammount of dice. I could allow the players to decide for themselves. Making an easy version and a harder one.

But before the cards are redesigned. I need to know if I use d6 or d8.
That will be in a next post.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
Weight of a card

I reconsidered the weight on the weapons. I can keep the options attack base, attack units, defend. Because this makes for interesting cards later on.

But I am troubled with having the right attribute names.
[Unit] and [Structure] doesn't cover everything.

***

Now for the d8.
Are these useful for the design?

For now, I used 1, 2 and 4 for the 3 tiers.
With accuracies that are divided by 6. This made designing a bit hard.

50% = 3/6
And that is the only one which fits the basic weight.

d8 offers me:
25% = 2/8
50% = 4/8
75% = 6/8

2 projectiles was hard with d6. Unlike my prototype where the basis was on a 30 weight. 1, 2 or 4 divided by 6 made it hard. Since 2, 4 and 8 divided by 6 also made things hard.

3 projectiles for an unit was easy enough for some proper design. Because 3x 1/6th would be 50% again.

d8 might offer a great solution. Not only that. But 1.5 times 4 is 6. While 1.5 times 3 is 4.5.
This for the slower weapons. So, d8 does help me here as well.

d8 does fit in more nicely. But I need only the normal ones. So that a simple comparison can be made.

I made a list of d6 and the accuracies of how they would be divided.
60 of 1, 30 of 2, 20 of 3, 15 of 4, 12 of 5 and 10 of 6.
This is a basic distribution. Only some math to tell me roughly how the cards accuracy should be distributed.

For d8, it will require higher numbers, because there is a new prime in there, 7.
840 of 1, 420 of 2, 280 of 3, 210 of 4, 168 of 5, 140 of 6, 120 of 7 and 105 of 8.
Obviously I am not going to use those numbers.

This is more understandable:
8 of 1, 4 of 2, 3 of 3, 2 of 4, 2 of 5, 1 of 6, 1 of 7 and 1 of 8. Something like that.

***

Some more testing showed me. I can have fun with that d8 in terms of design :)

A list of tanks:
All tier 3 armor
All tier 3 damage
Each accuracy of 1 adds exactly a cost of 1.

Also, if the accuracy is 4.
And the weapon has to wait for 1 or 2 subturns. Exactly 1 accuracy is added each subturn. This will make for a great design:

Missile Tank:
Costs 8 (not 10)
Armor 3
Damage 3 per missile.
First missile accuracy 4
Second missile accuracy 5 with a charge of 1
Third missile accuracy 6 with a charge of 2

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
1d8, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 5d8???

d8 shows a lot of promise. But I like to use it in my personal way. Thus the roll to succes is a score of 1.
Where d6 only allowed easy design with 3 or 6. d8 allows for 2, 4, 6 and 8. So, the distribution is easier to make.

1d8:
Accuracy 1
0: 87.5%
1: 12.5%
Accuracy 2
0: 75.0%
1: 25.0%
Accuracy 3
0: 62.5%
1: 37.5%
Accuracy 4
0: 50.0%
1: 50.0%
Accuracy 5
0: 37.5%
1: 62.5%
Accuracy 6
0: 25.0%
1: 75.0%
Accuracy 7
0: 12.5%
1: 87.5%
Accuracy 8
1:100.0%

2d8:
Accuracy 1
0: 76.6%
1: 21.9%
2: _1.6%
Accuracy 2
0: 56.3%
1: 37.5%
2: _6.3%
Accuracy 3
0: 39.1%
1: 46.9%
2: 14.1%
Accuracy 4
0: 25.0%
1: 50.0%
2: 25.0%
Accuracy 5
0: 14.1%
1: 46.9%
2: 14.1%
Accuracy 6
0: _6.3%
1: 37.5%
2: 56.3%
Accuracy 7
0: _1.6%
1: 21.9%
2: 76.6%
Accuracy 8
2:100.0%

I could go on with this. But as you can see. 2d8 already shows much more distribution than 1d8.

If you roll for example 3 and 6 with 2d8. You have the accuracies 1 and 2 not doing anything. 3, 4 and 5 will score 1, and 6 to 8 score 2.

Of course, d8 does require a lot of counting. What about d4?
Or maybe 1d##. Where every option is displayed for a 2d4?
11
12
13
14
21
22
23
24
31
32
33
34
41
42
43
44

1d16 is such a die :D

Then again 5d4 would also be simple to observe.
If an army has 1, 2, 3 and 4 as accuracies.
Rolling for example 11234, would simply mean that the accuracy of 1, scores 2,
2 scores 3,
3 scores 4,
4 scores 5.
Rolling 22334?
1 scores 0
2 scores 2
3 scores 4
4 scores 5

Actually, 4 always scores 5. So you really only need to look for 3 numbers. Which is easy to do for any player, right?

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Ok I understood...

X3M wrote:
1 die is very linear. And having an all or nothing approach is as how you said it. Not fun.

It may be a bit more linear but it's not all or nothing. And the percentages (%) are just for your reference. The Custom D8 will have the Fractions as seen on the left hand side (1/5, 1/4, ... 1/2 ... 4/5, 1/1). That is actually what is going to be printed on the dice (not percentages).

X3M wrote:
Using % in a game is also hard for players. Unless there is some sort of 2d10 being used. Either way, if % is used, it should be in a certain set.
d4, 25, 50, 75, 100
d5, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100
But not a combination? d8 would be like:
d8, 12.5, 25, 37.5, 50, 62.5, 75, 87.5, 100

I don't need a perfectly linear progression... Something that is more or less divisible by 2, 4, and 5.

X3M wrote:
I use a d6, but have cards that will always hit 100%.
Accuracy 6 will always hit.
Accuracy 5 will miss when a 6 is rolled.
Accuracy 4 will miss when a 5 or 6 is rolled.
etc.

I use ANOTHER Custom D8 to figure out who hits or misses. My Tactical Readiness die is rolled per card (and each card has 3 Tiers). There is one chance in 8 that all the units in a stack are all "not ready".

X3M wrote:
With the 5d6, I also don't need to select a line or group. The cards are free again. Which is something I prefer.

This is TRUE. I am favoring groups of threes (3s) since each card will come with three Tiers. This is a sort of compromise. While I like freedom... I am picturing something with the play area and how the game works.

X3M wrote:
But before the cards are redesigned. I need to know if I use d6 or d8. That will be in a next post.

The only thing that I like better is your "To-Hit" concept. Meaning that each card has an "Accuracy". It's another STAT but works pretty neat. I can get rid of my "Tactical Readiness" Die (000 to 111) and replace it with a STANDARD D8 (1 to 8) and use "Accuracy" much like in your concept.

IDK... I need to think about it. That's something that is POSSIBLE and not too complicated TBH. And then I could have "Accuracy" 1 to 8. So "8" would always be a HIT and 1 would be a 1-in-8 chance (or 12.5% chance).

But I don't want to roll MULTIPLE dice... Just ONE (1). The goal would be to replace the "Tactical Readiness" die with a Standard D8... I need to think about it.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
IDK, Let me think about it...!

X3M wrote:
d8 shows a lot of promise...

1d8:
Accuracy 1
0: 87.5%
1: 12.5%
...
Accuracy 8
1:100.0%

This I all understood 100%. But the 2D8s have got me baffled as BELOW:

X3M wrote:

2d8:
Accuracy 1
0: 76.6%
1: 21.9%
2: _1.6%
Accuracy 2
0: 56.3%
1: 37.5%
2: _6.3%
Accuracy 3
0: 39.1%
1: 46.9%
2: 14.1%
Accuracy 4
0: 25.0%
1: 50.0%
2: 25.0%
Accuracy 5
0: 14.1%
1: 46.9%
2: 14.1%
Accuracy 6
0: _6.3%
1: 37.5%
2: 56.3%
Accuracy 7
0: _1.6%
1: 21.9%
2: 76.6%
Accuracy 8
2:100.0%

Accuracy "8" = 2x "12345678" = 100%
Accuracy "7" = 2x "1234567" = 76.6%, 1x "1234567" & "8" = 21.9%, "88" = 1.6%

I get that's what you MEAN... But how do you compute the PERCENTAGES. This will help me understand YOUR Math a bit better... And then I can see IF I can offer good advice (or not).

X3M wrote:
I could go on with this. But as you can see. 2d8 already shows much more distribution than 1d8.

Indeed more computation and different odds too.

X3M wrote:
If you roll for example 3 and 6 with 2d8. You have the accuracies 1 and 2 not doing anything. 3, 4 and 5 will score 1, and 6 to 8 score 2.

You lost me with this example... Let me see if I can work through it...

For 3: "12" & "345678", 6: "12345" & "678"

"12": 0, "345": 1 and "678" 2... Okay it makes sense... But it's a bit weird and complicated to compute.

X3M wrote:
Of course, d8 does require a lot of counting.

It's very tricky and not intuitive IMHO. That's why I would ROLL 1D8

X3M wrote:
Then again 5d4 would also be simple to observe.
If an army has 1, 2, 3 and 4 as accuracies...

...Actually, 4 always scores 5. So you really only need to look for 3 numbers. Which is easy to do for any player, right?

I personally don't like how D4s feel when rolling. They are too LIGHT in terms of weight. But that's a personal preference. Use whatever you see as being good.

questccg wrote:
Here's a Question for you:

Why do you want to roll 2D8s instead of just 1D8???

I fail to understand WHY the rolling of 5 dice. What is the reasoning about this??? Is there some kind of MATH involved?! Or is this just of your own personal choosing?

Because I can say: "Roll 1D8, if the value is less than or equal to your units 'Accuracy'; those units are successful in their attack."

Of course this is the opposite of Dice Theory which indicates that in MOST instances having a HIGHER die roll is BETTER. In your version it is the opposite and it makes it CONFUSING(??!!) TBH.

Like if my "Accuracy" is "1", I need to roll "1" To-Hit. Dice Theory goes the other way. You should need to roll an "8" To-Hit... See my point??? That's why there is a LOT of confusion around the efficiency of this dice rolling mechanic.

Accuracy 1 = 8
Accuracy 2 = 78
Accuracy 3 = 678
Accuracy 4 = 5678
Accuracy 5 = 45678
Accuracy 6 = 345678
Accuracy 7 = 2345678
Accuracy 8 = 12345678

That makes more LOGICAL sense in terms of Traditional Dice Theory. You are favored by HIGHER numbers NOT lower ones. I knew there was something that was bothering me about your way of seeing things.

It's not normal. The higher you ROLL the better... That's how NORMAL dice rolling operates (traditionally from Dice Theory).

But I guess this too is confusing to EXPLAIN how it works in REVERSE and still achieves the SAME goal.

IDK... Let me think about it...!

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
d8 math >> d6 math

For this game at least :)

As for how we always looked at the dice and the results?
When we need an accuracy of for example 5. We simply need the roll to be 5 or less. This would equal a chance of 5 out of 8. And we can actually use the 5 in the calculations for balance.

If we say, you need to roll 5 or higher for a succes. The balance calculation is reversed. Still a good option though. But not something we are used to.

Now, having an accuracy of 1, and having to roll an 8 is very counter intuitive for most tbh. Unless we use 8, which would be "in-accuracy". A higher number would be worse in this regard...

***

Why more dice?
1 die gives lineair results.
But 2 dice already create a bit of a normal distribution.
And the more dice I use, the higher the reward can be with a good roll.
While a bad outcome like 0 becomes rare.

1d would give 0 or 1.
2d can give 0, 0.5 or 1.
3d can give 0, 0.3, 0.7 or 1.
4d can give 0, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75 or 1.
5d can give 0, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8 or 1.

An accuracy of 1 on 8. Can mean, with a good roll, this weapon is like at most 8 times more powerfull.

By the way, I used Anydice.com for my calculations.

The chances to roll 0 succes for accuracy 1, with a number of d8:
87.5% with 1 die
76.6% with 2 dice
67.0% with 3 dice
58.6% with 4 dice
51.3% with 5 dice

As soon as a succes is rolled, the accuracy of 1 already paid itself back. No matter how many dice I use.

Another way to look at this is:
A card can have 1 projectile with accuracy 8 or 8 projectiles with accuracy 1.
With 5d8, we always have 5 hits with accuracy 8. However, this is 100% (or 5x 20%).

As soon as 1 die is a succes for the 1 accuracy, we got 8 hits. Or 160%.
The chances on the number of hits can be seen as following:
_0: 51.3% equals 0.0
_8: 36.6% equals 2.9
16: 10.5% equals 1.6
24: 1.50% equals 0.4
32: 0.11% equals 0.0
40: 0.00% equals 0.0

If you sum the last column, you get your 5 again.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Aside (just for a second...)

I know I mentioned this before and you said you wanted it to be FREE and OPEN to which units get used in a Battle. And the opponent chooses his/her Blockers (like in MtG presumably).

The problem with this is the following:

questccg wrote:
If I choose 25 Ground Forces to attack an opposing Platoon that may be fair (or at least closer to being FAIR). But what if instead of the opponent choosing Ground Forces or Land-based Vehicles... The opponent BLOCKS with a couple (2x) Stealth Bombers which can drop a nerve agent...

See what I mean??? How can this be FAIR!!! First of all my Ground Forces may have missile launchers that are offset by the "Stealth" component of the opponent's Bombers and secondly they are dropping a "nerve agent" (toxic gas) via a couple bombs dropped from above!

Now IF I instead had some F15 Stealth Fighter Jets, I could maybe deploy 3x of these to defeat the Bombers... But what happens if I DON'T have these available to me... And EVEN IF I DO...

Is this something like poker: I make an initial Bid with my Ground Forces. The opponent COUNTERS with Bombers (think ESCALATION) and ups-the-ante ... And therefore IF I HAD the 3x F15s I could escalate AGAIN and force him to deploy his own F15 Fighters... etc.

See what I mean...? How do you get a CALL. Not an ESCALATION (or up-the-ante)??? Someone says enough is enough... And what do they SACRIFICE by doing so?

Any thoughts on this??? I know this is an ASIDE. I just wanted to touch on it because I feel like there will be this forever back-and-forth until EVERYONE is ALL-IN with ALL their CHIPS! LOL

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
For starters

Those cards that attack, can't defend the next round.

Also, if a flying unit blocks ground forces with ground weapons. This should not be the case. The flying unit will simply be able to deal damage. And the ground forces will still attack whatever they where targeting. In fact, just like my prototype board game. I am planning to have the rule that excess damage will go through until all targets are eliminated.

And if something can't block, it cannot block. That rule should be known to the players. This is where it is different than MtG.

X3M
X3M's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/28/2013
A better combat resolution clarification

It is different than a board game for sure.

Originally, I had a squad target another squad. And the cover system only had it for each "dimension". Where ground protects ground and air protects air.

***

But the card game has it a bit different.

Ground blocks ground.
Air blocks air.

If air is targeted by ground units with anti air. These can be blocked by ground units. As if the anti air is now out of range. The ground units need to be defeated first in order for the AA to come in range.

Obviously, the air that is protected could still fire upon ground units if it has an anti ground weapon.

Should I not allow that last fact?
What use would walls have then?
Should I add an attribute that allows protected cards to be able to fire?

A bomber would not have that attribute.
A missile launcher would.

questccg
questccg's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/16/2011
Wow ... This is actually REAL in some ways

X3M wrote:
It is different than a board game for sure.

The key thing is "Bombers" which are Air vs. Ground.

X3M wrote:
Ground blocks ground.
Air blocks air.

Clearly Air vs. Ground is possible and without say a defense like a SAM Site (Surface-to-Air-Missile) and other Air Units (like Jet Fighters) which can deter the use of "Bombers". So I guess it depends on the players... If one player builds a "Bomber", the other players need to think about Air-Support. And see this as a serious threat because Ground forces can't normally "Block" a higher Altitude attack made from a "Bomber".

I am thinking about ANOTHER "Victory Condition". Where as you are thinking destroy all the building and you win... I am thinking occupy the territory and you win the game. This is like a King-Of-The-Hill mechanic for maybe 3 turns.

IDK, I am still exploring this Ground-To-Air conundrum ... But clearly we see that if a Player has a Bomber or more, it is dangerous to not build up your air support (Jet Fighters and SAM sites). I am going to reserve "SAM Sites" as a Technology upgrade (Just like your Defense Tower). Meaning that you can apply three (3) techs researched at your HQ into play and those "3" Techs impact how you are defended too (with things like Walls and Bridges)...

Wall protect structures... But "Bridges" can limit the access to your HQ. Things like that... Think of "stupid" things like a city in the center connected by like FIVE (5) Bridges... If these "Bridges" act as modern day "Moats" it means that the city will be protected until the enemy Engineers build some kind of way to transport Ground Vehicles to the opposite side.

Sure your Ground Forces may be able to Cross with relatively LESS DIFFICULTY. But Vehicles like Tanks and other Ground-Based Motorized vehicles may NOT be able to cross for a LONG while... Or until the enemy Engineers build some kind of "temporary" Bridge from one side to the other to continue their advance.

But of course, again with no Air Support, the opponent can BOMB away the infrastructure and the Troops indiscriminately. Meaning at his own will...

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut