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"The BEST CCG/TCG ever!" is LIVE

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questccg
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Okay, so I know there was another post about this topic.

If any Game designers are interested in the challenge of designing "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!", we have forums that are now LIVE!

You can visit the forums as a Guest or register for an account: http://www.oflegendsandlore.com/

Note: Although the domain sounds like Fantasy, I assure you this is just a *recycled* domain name. The domain used to be a BLOG for a Dungeon Crawler I was designing. I was going to buy another domain name but then I figured using one of my *unused* domains would be a better idea. So that's where I install the forum software.

questccg
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Registration

The registration allows members to introduce themselves in the lobby section of the forums.

This section of the forums is available to be viewed by Guests users (anonymous)... So you can only browse through the lobby. If you want FULL access to the forums, you'll need to APPLY for that ... which requires some additional information.

I will try to post more thoughts on the CCG tomorrow.

questccg
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More on the concept

I have discussed the concept with a couple designers... and both agree that there is not anything like this CCG/TCG on the market today. But I wanted to discuss it with more designers. I just felt it was *dumb* targeting people at random and sending Private Messages to them in order to get some feedback.

The forums at http://www.oflegendsandlore.com/ are a better way to get game designers who are interested in the collaborative aspect of the project and also others who are interested by the challenge of the project.

This approach allows me the freedom to talk about the project to many designers... And obviously it allows designers to contribute to the project and also discuss with each other the various concepts or merits of the project!

knightshade
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Hey. I saw Quest when I was

Hey.
I saw Quest when I was browsing some POD sites. The cover looked different than your avatar though so I wasn't sure if it was yours a didn't buy it... definately will grab it the next time around. ;)

questccg
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Maybe not the right one...

My self-published game is called "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)". The website is http://www.questccg.com/

I believe there is another card game that is simply called "Quest". I did not use a POD, I had the game locally produced at a printing shop and then packaged at a specialty packaging company who can packgage all kinds of wrappings. In my case, they made my boosters!

questccg
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Congratulations!

We have our very FIRST designer who has registered to be part of "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!"

Note: I have still not had the chance to post too many topics. I have posted topics about a *couple* games out there in the market that are in the same "theme" as the project. But they are not competitors... They are neither CCGs nor TCGs.

questccg
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On our way...!

We have our very SECOND designer who has registered to be part of "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!"

Note: I have also posted some *Research* information on a few games. They are not CCGs/TCGs but stiil it's worthwhile examining them to better understand them! I will be posting more information tonight...

richdurham
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BGDF?

Just out of curiosity, Quest, since you're quite an active member here at BGDF - why not make this a discussion here on the boards instead of have designers sign up for a separate forum?

questccg
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Forum structure...

Hi Rich,

Well I would need like DOUBLE the forums to be able to post Ideas, Research, Artwork, etc. It would just be inconvenient to have to set up that many forums for just ONE (1) game.

It's not like there is one single forum, registered designers have access to currently 7 forums and there will be more, such as one about Graphic Design (still will need to add - but I'm not searching for G.A. - yet). When the time comes, I will reach out to some graphic designers (I know of a few).

I still plan to be active on BGDF but I am accepting members who are interested in the project further!

Note: Also the forums are private for vetted designers. I don't want all the game information to be up to be viewed by the public...

Note 2: I also have attachments such as rulebooks for other games that I want accessible to designers. So we can look at other examples of games and brainstorm new ideas...

richdurham
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More details?

Perhaps you can share more details about this project beyond "Want to make the best TCG/CCG ever?" I know that personally I'd like to know more before committing my time.

questccg
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As the concept says...

The purpose of the project is to create "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!". The goal is to have designers give their input on all types of matters regarding the CCG/TCG. So much like on BGDF, you can talk about mechanics, theme, general game chat, game ideas. As such we (the community - because I'm just the administrator and I'm sure there will be topics to vote on issues related to the game) are looking for two (2) types of designers:

1. Designers who are interested in the *Challenge* (To design The Best CCG/TCG ever).
2. Designers who are interested in CCG/TGC design.

Knowing fully well that CCGs/TGCs are money losing propositions and that most publishers are not interested in them, this community goal aims to produce a very NICHE CCG/TCG that is somewhat distinct in theme. I can assure you that the theme is NOT Fantasy, Science Fiction, Superheroes, Manga, War or Zombies.

There are also very few games in the project's theme and there are NO CCGs/TCGs. We disclose this information to help reassure designers that we are not interested in other CCGs being designed. If you are designing your own CCG, more power to you. We are not competing against your design. Our focus is on our very SPECIFIC CCG/TCG.

BGDF members who satisfy one (1) or both of the constraints (in terms of interest or challenge) are welcomed to register for designer access on the http://www.oflegendsandlore.com/ website (it could take a day or so if I am busy) and then be granted access to the forums. For now the only public forum is the "Welcome Lobby" where visitors (not vetted designers) can introduce themselves to the community.

That is another point, the forums are considered *private* in nature - so not everyone can view the contents of the forums. For now, we have a total of seven (7) forums in which members can discuss the different aspects of the CCG/TCG. The Research forum will be a hotspot because that's where we will be talking about other games having a *similar* theme. Obviously none of them are CCGs/TCGs but it still interesting to talk about games that have a similar theme.

Because the forum is somewhat *private* (not open to everyone) only vetted designers can partake in the topics posted. You can talk about whatever aspect of the game you want and this will be considered private. Meaning, the whole world will not be able to read your messages only the members of the community will be allowed to do so. I think I'd like to keep the open-door policy but private to outsiders philosophy...

We are asking for no information upon registration and if I know you from BGDF, I can promote you to "Designer" status to enable full access to the forums. It may be early to discuss conventions and trade shows (the reason for address inquiries) however such matters will need to be discussed. I feel that certain members in local cities might be able to demonstrate the product (in conventions or trade shows) and that can be done on a per locale basis. There is no reason for someone who is in Canada needs to fly down to Boston if we have a community member who is willing to attend a convention in the Boston area (for example). Obviously this is much further in the future... Hopefully we will have such challenges!

The *theme* is confidential but made available to registered designers. So there are no levels of access, once you register and get vetted you have full access to the forums. And therefore you can read all of the topics that are available to the community... And I hope to have contributions from members such that we can together design "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!" The goal is to create a CCG/TCG of a specific theme and nature and bring the design to the market. We hope that by having a community approach (several contributors) that we might be able to persuade a publisher to publish our product. This is obviously only down the road, so to speak, but it's part of the goal of the project.

Knowing that the CCG/TCG market is DEAD and that barriers to entry are very high, we hope that a community effort will help us surpass those challenges and allow the CCG/TCG to make it's mark in the tabletop game industry. Like I said there is no CCG/TCG with the nature of the project on the market today...

As far as time is concerned, I'm sure everyone is busy with their own projects... So perhaps brushing up with the topics, seeing what areas interest a designer most, etc. are all ways to focus one's attention to the project. There are some big challenges (especially in the CCG/TCG market). It is my belief that by collaborating together, we can design a SUPERIOR product that will make it's way onto store shelves...

But enough of my blabbering...

Mansemat
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You sound like a salesman

You sound like a salesman selling fluff and it makes my Spidey-senses tingle. Sure I'm curious but then again; it's not hard to lure a donkey with a carrot.

Three
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More people would be

More people would be committed to help if they knew what they were committing themselves to, I think. I'm also curious, but enough to agree to a NDA without even a general idea of what I "might" be working on.

questccg
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FIRST contribution

Three wrote:
More people would be committed to help if they knew what they were committing themselves to, I think. I'm also curious, but enough to agree to a NDA without even a general idea of what I "might" be working on.

Don't worry. One of the registered designers is working on his OWN CCG/TCG and he registered for an account. Like I said, the forums are not made to *restrict* designers in any way.

What helps is if you are interested in CCG/TCG design or interested by the challenge. If you're not into that type of game well then there is no point to register.

And for the *nay sayers*, we already have gotten our FIRST contribution. We have been up and running for ONLY 2 days... A designer posted bringing another possibility to the game. As this is a community project, I have urged him to explore his ideas further. Since things are NEW, new ideas (or different ones) are welcomed!

As we move along and better define the extent of the project, it will be harder to submit new ideas - because older ones will probably better define the product. But that still does not exclude the possibility of a new idea being added to the project... It just makes it a little harder...!

Note: I plan on using POLLS to allow members to vote on various topics as we move along. We'll see what ideas we like and how we can get them into the game.

Toa Lewa
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Just Some Incentive Ideas

Personally, I find Quest's idea very exciting and I am willing to contribute for free because it is something I enjoy doing. However, I understand that not everyone is like me and might need a little more incentive.

What if there were rewards based on the number of contributions a designer made (not monetary though)? For example, assuming the game is published, what if the publisher (who has signed an agreement to do this) allows a designer to cash in contribution points to receive special foil covered cards, rare cards, or starter decks. In addition, these cards could have a special "designer" insignia on the back indicating that they are exclusive to designers.

I don't think a publisher would have much of a problem doing something like this, especially if they are not spending money on their own design team. I don't know if this is a realistic idea, but I thought I would share my ideas.

questccg
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Game research

Toa Lewa wrote:
Personally, I find Quest's idea very exciting and I am willing to contribute for free because it is something I enjoy doing. However, I understand that not everyone is like me and might need a little more incentive...

I appreciate Toa Lewa interest and contribution... I will start tomorrow to examine the research material posted so I can be more familiar with another game that may have interesting mechanics relative to the project. So far that's been the area most of interest: other games that have common elements with the project.

questccg
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More members interested

Well we picked up two (2) members interested in this project. One of which is a talented artist who shared his Deviant Art page. At the moment, we are not looking for artists, we will most probably need one or a couple Graphic Designers for card design.

But it's still very early. Right now we are exploring other games, their mechanics and rules. Our research section is where the hot topics are for the moment... We as a community want to share concepts and other games that can *influence* our project.

So we're getting more designers who are interested in our project!

questccg
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Open-door policy

I welcome other BGDF members to join "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!" forum and participate in what will be a very interesting project. Already the contributions by three (3) out of four (4) members have led to some interesting debate over how it would be possible to realize the project.

So we've now started sharing ideas about how a game could play out. It's still early and more research will get done... However so early, we have had valuable contributions!

I will continue to have an open-door policy that BGDF members are welcome. Visit us at: http://www.oflegendsandlore.com/

HPS74
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I mean this in the nicest

I mean this in the nicest way...I think we've all heard about your idea and new forum. I hope it goes well for you.

In my opinion, there comes a point when constantly updating your thread pushes everyone else down the list and doesn't allow enough time for other reader to view/comment....it's kind of overkill.

Best of luck with your project and I hope we can hear about it.....not just every moment of every day ;)

questccg
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Other members...

HPS74 wrote:
...In my opinion, there comes a point when constantly updating your thread pushes everyone else down the list and doesn't allow enough time for other reader to view/comment....it's kind of overkill.

That's the thing... Some designers are NOT on these forums EVERYDAY. They visit the website ONCE AND A WHILE. I got one designer whom I have never seem post any messages on BGDF, yet they are interested in the project and have started to critique and comment about "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!"

So making those members aware of our initiative gives them the opportunity to come on board and see what's being discussed...

Like I said, not everybody posts on BGDF... And they may still be interested by the project! :D

Squinshee
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I'm in the same boat as

I'm in the same boat as HPS74. Getting people to collaborate on your game is cool. I hope you and your team are able to make something cool. The problem is that none of us have any specific details on the game. The game isn't even being made on these boards- it's being made elsewhere where no one can see. So you're using this site to promote another site that none of us can even look at without signing a NDA.

It's the greater implications that bother me. Many of us, including myself, have shared design documents on BGDF because we trust its members not to steal ideas. These boards are really open and that's what's great about them. However, your project places no trust in us, and has the potential to make others untrustworthy.

For the good of the BGDF community, please give it a rest.

Dan Felder
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Yeah, I'm getting exhausted

Yeah, I'm getting exhausted from the constant updates too.

Still find it ironic that the game isn't intended to make the designers money, but is still obsessed with secrecy more than most games that are. I honestly don't even know what you're trying to protect, since protecting it has no commercial value for the design team. All the NDA does is open designers to potential liability and prevent people that might be interested from even knowing what the heck you're working on.

Honestly, all we see of this project is somebody posting in a thread that they have the brilliant idea to "Make the best CCG ever", a better one than all the others. That's hardly a new idea. Apparently though, this person also guaruntees they have a mega-brilliant concept that's almost entirely unique. You must admit, these claims don't look compelling on their own.

What you are proposing is no different from any other design team in the world. You're working on a secret project that requires an NDA to see, which is trying to just be as good as it can. You apparently have a concept you love and think is great, which almost every design team does. The only obvious difference in your project is that the designers have no chance of a financial return on the project, and there might well be a whole lot more designers than usual (which is rarely a good idea). You even seem to want to pursue a publisher-model or similar, despite the fact you aren't even trying to make money. Heck, why not print and play?

I don't dislike your goal, I think it's great (which is why I'm taking the time to comment). I'm suggesting that you're going about it in a way that isn't conducive to your stated goals. If you just drop the NDA thing, drop the desire to protect something that will have no financial return anyway, things would radically improve.

questccg
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Like I said earlier

I've picked up people who have never even posted on BGDF! We have one artist that never has said a PEEP on BGDF... And he posted up his Deviant Art page and his contact information for... Guess what? "The BEST CCG/TCG ever!" We have testimonial from another designer who has joined stating that the concept is really interesting... We have also got another designer who likes the idea of contributing towards a CCG/TCG. It's something he's interested in.

My NDA is simply to protect the community working on the project. It's also a way to protect designers from feeling that their contributions are not being protected. We don't want PUBLIC knowledge of the project... Like I said, we have picked up members who are not even members of BGDF... So you can imagine how many people actually visit BGDF as GUESTS.

Remember I too speak FREELY about ALL my other projects. But this one is uncharacteristically different. We have a sort of *mission* statement. Our goal is for our CCG/TCG to be BETTER than say Pokemon (as an example).

And as such the community should have the right to protect their project. Dropping the NDA would be like making the project open to the WORLD... We don't want that yet... Only for designers who want to contribute to the project.

I don't know why people are so paranoid about an NDA that keeps the PUBLIC out of the loop - and assure the designers the right to some privacy while collaborating?! It's meant to keep all those guest visitors from knowing the inner workings of the project... It's also a great place to market your skills as an artist or graphics designer.

I have seen projects with TONS of Artists that work for FREE on a game that may never get published. And those artists are not crappy artists. So for once instead of having ONE designer with a whole army of artists, I'd like to have a project with several DESIGNERS working and collaborating together to make the project a reality!

What do you really have to worry about? We have one designer who is designing his OWN CCG... And he joined! You'd think he would be the one so worried. He's not. He knows that the NDA is not to bar him from working or developing his game further... It's simply there to protect the community of designers from the public.

We don't want the game to be PUBLIC until it's ready to be so... So if you want to discuss the project you do so via posts on the http://www.oflegendsandlore.com website/forums! It's as simple as that...

Dan Felder
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You keep mentioning

You keep mentioning 'protecting' the ideas of the designers.

What exactly are you protecting? Your project has no financial value. There is nothing to *lose*. Or do you just have a deep antipathy for the idea that someone might see your mechanics and say, "hey, that looks neat - I'll try that too"?

If you mainly just want to create a private workspace out of the public's eye, which seems to be the emphasis here, go for it. But you don't need an NDA to do that. You could still only approve certain designers to see the full contents of the forum and keep the rest out of the public eye.

HPS74
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Why don't we change the pace

Why don't we change the pace and play a nice game of Rugby :) There's a post about that somewhere round here!

questccg
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Community FIRST

So although I was the pilot of the project. Different suggestions about where to take the game in terms of "Theme" have been raised. And to be honest, I am not opposed to the direction of the designers and the community, because that is what we are FIRST. A community. So visions of the project can change in a team setting and I welcome them.

Corsaire
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How come the last comment on

How come the last comment on this thread is the same comment that was there yeaterday, but now has a new time stamp? Very strange, something buggy with this thread, that's like the third time that happened. Probably be safer to delete the thread, maybe it is a virus of some sort?

questccg
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Another member has joined

We have another member who has joined and gotten his feet wet by posting his first message...

This message is not a virus, its simply probably because I realized what I wrote was incorrect or that I had made mistakes while typing the response (and realized it only later).

questccg
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Factions and their mechanics

So we are currently discussing factions for the CCG/TCG. No big surprise it makes perfect sense to have some form of logical division in the game. Other topics of interest are types of cards, game context cards, scoring and victory points.

Most of these are typical parts of most CCG/TCG. Never the less we are discussing them in the context for the project.

Dan Felder
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You're discussing factions,

You're discussing factions, cards, game context of cards, scoring and victory points in your CCG/TCG project?

What an astonishing, surprising and informative post!

Kidding aside, I don't mind getting more updates on your project - and I hope it goes well - but could you at least wait until you have something a bit more substantive to share?

questccg
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Other CCGs/TCGs

Currently we have shifted our attention from Factions, to what are called "Site" cards. They originate in the most unusual TCG - Lord Of The Rings (LOTR TCG). Specifically these *locale* based cards can be used very strategically while playing LOTR TCG. They even have their own *language* which is a bit daunting for a new player.

So although LOTR TCG is fantasy - and our game is not, those cards are proving to have interesting "catch-up" mechanics which we are discussing further... For those two (2) reasons we are talking more about LOTR TCG in the context of our CCG/TCG...

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