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Horror Miniatures Game - Preliminary Thread(I'm new to this Site)

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Catelf
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Joined: 10/05/2009

This is my first Thread here, and also an attempt to understand this Site, while getting info that may be valuable for my ongoing Miniature Games Projects.

I will propably have to place Threads in more appropriate forum parts later, but it might also be valuable to discuss the idea in general as well.

First, in a way, i already has functioning Rules, that might need some trimming, though.

Second, i have found that it has to be GamesMastered.

Third, thus far, i have used miniatures from other games, and conversions of those, i have only 3 good-looking enough self-made minis (1 Mimic, 1 Mantrap flower, & 1 Robot), so i have understood i will need to get "generic" miniatures, fitting the Category of Pulp-Modern Horror ..... and a little more.

Fourth, i might need advices on making Gameboards ... i really like the jigsaw pieces from Descent & Doom.
(I used to like GW's Space Hulk for their boardpieces.)

So ...... Questions, suggestions?

Dralius
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Catelf wrote:Fourth, i might

Catelf wrote:
Fourth, i might need advices on making Gameboards ... i really like the jigsaw pieces from Descent & Doom.

Greetings

I recommend foam core for the board. It's easy to cut with a utility/craft knife and it's thick enough to lock easily with the other sections.

Catelf
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Prints on Foamboard?

Dralius wrote:
Greetings

I recommend foam core for the board. It's easy to cut with a utility/craft knife and it's thick enough to lock easily with the other sections.


Thank You.

Of what i have seen of foamboards (I haven't a DIY-shop nearby), i would have to select one of the thinner, i assume?
Plus, how do i do with illustrations, to make them look like floors, (i use 25mm squares)?
I have thus far used thick ... cardboard/paper, onto wich i have put A4 stickerpaper (i'm sorry, my english is lacking sometimes), that i have printed the illustrations on.
Will that stickerpaper work as good on foamboard, or is it better with something else?

Dralius
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I use sticker paper when

I use sticker paper when there is not that much needed. When im doing allot i find it's much cheaper to use lite card stock and spray glue.

Redcap
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Welcome. You said you were

Welcome. You said you were new and when I was new the thing I didn't understand the most was playtesting. You said that you have workable rules, great. But if not already tried, I would suggest doing playtests with people you don't know. I had a lot of games with workable rules, but they weren't fun or people didn't react to them like I thought they would.

Don't know if you have already done that or not, but it is the only real suggestion I can give.

If you have pics of your homemade models I think we would all ove to see your mimic and robot.

Catelf
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Playtest & Minis.

Redcap wrote:
Welcome. You said that you have workable rules, great. But if not already tried, I would suggest doing playtests with people you don't know.

All my Game attempts has been playtested by mainly two categories:
More or less complete newbies to miniature gaming, and people used to the set of rules i use, either due to bein the first category, or since i used similar rules as an Rpg GM.
I would appreciate if people used to boardgaming, but not those rules, would playtest them, though.

Redcap wrote:
If you have pics of your homemade models I think we would all ove to see your mimic and robot.

I currently don't have any pictures on those miniatures, but i might be able to manage some, but i am unsure exactly when.
..... searched through my easily accessible minis, ..... i couldn't find the mimic. I found the other two, though, and some other of my creations that i obviously had forgotten (to mention).
I think i'll try to find the Mimic again ....

Catelf
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Another obstacle i have encountered

First: ... Have still not found the Mimic ....

I have had problem finding people that wants to test the game in full, on their own.
It needs that, so i understand what truly work as it should, and what doesn't.
Any idea on what to do?
(I will of course have to put together the Rules and some ready-to-play scenarios, so i can present them.)

hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
I would recomend ither going

I would recomend ither going to conventions, you will probobly find some on who is willing to playtest it there without to much problems. Or you can try and find a local miniaturs gaming group, pr a "normal" gaming group. You should be able to find playtesters there aswell.

rcjames14
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Joined: 09/17/2010
Prototyping

There are a number of low budget POD options currently available which will be able to produce cards, boards and tokens for you of reasonable quality. If you look at the forum, there's actually a post about that in the last week. I do not know of any place which will create miniatures for you. Perhaps others do... but you can always raid other games you have or buy existing one for the purpose of playtesting.

However, before investing that kind of time, energy and money, you'll probably want to DIY with things at hand (ie. the Internet, an image editing software - I use Photoshop, a printer, card sleeves, sticker paper and some card stock) You can get a pretty good price for anything that is 8.5x11. So the goal is to make everything to conform to these dimensions. You can then print multiple copies of smaller components (like cards and tokens) on one sheet and assemble larger components from multiple sheets (like boards).

Any true playtester will forgive you for the slight inconvenience which comes from assembly of a board or shuffling of cards in a sleeve. They will also forgive you for use of copyrighted material. But, most will not forgive you for bad imagery, no images at all, confusing information or very flimsy materials. After all, when they see the game, those things say in their head "hey, I want to give this a try". So, you will want to do the best that you can do to make the game presentable.

Unless your miniatures have some three dimension quality which is essential to game play, you will definitely want to use tokens to represent them during playtesting (sculpting is expensive!). Make them look good and give them distinct colors so that players can easily make them out on the board.

If you need cards, create a template for printing out 8 or 9 cards on each sheet, save it and then use the save as function later to create individual PDFs to print. Ultimately, depending upon how much you plan to change the cards, you'll want to customize the card layouts so that you either maximize your printers 'number of copies' button or maximize the flexibility of printing new cards you don't anticipate.

There are also currently plenty of hexagonal and square templates available on the internet for 8.5x11 size objects. So, grab one of those and make adjustments in your image editor. The image editor will also be invaluable for cropping, resizing and placing all the images that you rip from Google Images or Wikipedia to give your game a face.

And, don't forget the importance of a good logo. Its usually the first thing that people see and I think they appreciate it on the top of the rules sheet, along with whatever diagrams or examples you can manage to provide. Just as the components need to look interesting, the rules need to be clear. Revise them as much as you can before you give them to people and provide lots of examples.

Hopefully this helps.

Catelf
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Convention it is, then.

I will have to be on the lookout for next year's "SydCon" (translates to "SouthConvent" in english), since that is the closest one for me, then. (I live in Sweden.)
See, i have had advanced problems with finding locally interested ones, partially because i am a bit shy, and those i have come in contact with, was either too much into Games Workshop's Games, or declared several times that they were busy with work, and playing Shop-bought Games.

Catelf
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rcjames14, You raised some more questions .....

I have had problems with what Miniatures to use, since i really do not have the proper miniatures for some of the Characters that i think should be playable.
If i were to simply make some "Modern Dungeoun Crawling", i could easily satisfy with some of the "Clix"Miniatures i have.
However, this kind of game rather requires a blend of CoC Investigators, those from "The last night on Earth", and 'Clix Minis.
But, even though i have some, there is some i don't have, like a Journalist, as an example.

Before Your comment on that visual presentation is really important, i had finally thought, that if i am to present the Game over the 'net, then i could just as well use "Cardboard Miniatures", or it might even be paper ones .......
But now, i'm not certain any more, especially if i am supposed to present it for potential testplayers on a Gaming Convent .......

But i still do not have the proper miniatures.

hulken
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Joined: 04/18/2009
You do not need miniaturs to

You do not need miniaturs to playtest youre game, use pices of paper, pawns, dices of difrent collor, or other things you have handy, you just need to know where the units are and how manny they are. That is al you need to know in a playtest sesion. Playtesting is done to se if the rules and gamesystem work. Not to se if people thing th eminiaturs a nice looking, then you use picturs... =)

Lycka till...

Catelf
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Joined: 10/05/2009
"Proxies" don't work for me

To me, if the Characters isn't represented properly, or at least really close, then I might get confused as to who is who.
Had the characters been interchangable, with virtually, or entirely, the same stats, it would have worked with pawns, but that is not the case here.
I'm also a kind of perfectionist.

So, Yes i do require proper Miniatures, even if they so are 2D, and printed on paper.

Tack.
(Thought so, "Hulken" is a Swedish interpretation....)

rcjames14
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Publisher's Role

While you are designing the game, you want to keep your costs as low as possible because most likely: 1. Your game will not succeed and 2. You will make a lot of changes to it. If, after a lot of playtesting, it is clear to both you and a publisher that your game is marketable, you're golden. But, at that point, most likely the publisher will produce the game, including all the miniatures.

Publishers are confronted by variety of cost, time and marketing constraints which may not be apparent to a designer. So, most of them prefer the flexibility of having control over the actual production process and sourcing all the components themselves. They will hire an artist to create art/sculptures and most of them have a graphic designer on staff to create the board, miniatures, cards, pieces, package, rules from the art that is produced and the rules you provide them. Then, one or more third parties will physically manufacture it.

Through this process, your vision for the game will become a collective vision and go in directions which you did not anticipate or expect. Sometimes for worse, but mostly for better, this collective production process will make your vision a reality. So, you will have to accept that a lot of the final product is out of your control.

But, prototyping is one of the parts in the process that you can control. And, often times, when you present the first image of your game, it is not uncommon for the final image to resemble it. Afterall, there's probably a reason you chose the theme you did. This is why, personally, I think making a presentable prototype is important. Because, it defines the game. Of course, in addition to the fact that it gets people interested in trying it (either playtesters or the publisher).

I have not made a miniature game. So, I do not know the feasibility of making miniature prototypes well. But, as I see it, you have three different approaches you can take.

First, you can create space size flat game tokens with the information written on it (think ASL).
Second, you can use pawns, dice, meeples, etc... of different colors (as Hulken suggests) and then produce corresponding cards which the players keep in front of them with game information.
Third, you can buy a few of those plastic index card stands which look like an upside down T at a local stationary store and print out a 2d image (back and front) of what you see the miniature looking like. This will probably look and feel the most like a miniature game... while at the same time keeping your costs for prototyping minimal and allowing you maximum flexibility. It will also allow you to use 2D art to depict what you think the 3D miniature should look like when it is produced.

But, if you do care what image you present for your game, you do not want to use other people's miniatures. And, it is not worth your time, nor is it your role in the process of game development, to make the miniatures yourself.

Good luck (in English)

Catelf
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Good info. Thanks.

It was good info and advice.

Each Character will have their own info on seperate cards. These cards are too large for placing on the intended board, and as I have said, alternative tokens don't work, so 2D's it is.

However, i do not think i will ever (get to?) sell the Game at all, but i anyway would like to make it look professionally made, like it could have been sold in a shop, so it was valuable info anyway.

So, once i have the brunt of the playtesting made, or even before, i may have to look for a miniature manufacturer that has the proper miniatures for this kind of game, or at least close enough, so i can change them a little, to make the right ones.
...... But that might be better to place in Prototyping?

Thank You!

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