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Jazz band card game

8 replies [Last post]
Wed, 10/26/2016 - 13:09
comfused
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Joined: 04/11/2012

Hi,

I'm brewing on a new game about jazz bands.
I'm still in the brainstorming phase. So all ideas are more than welcome!

Here are some loose ideas:

  • a drafting card game
  • in the middle of the table are 'Venue' cards, saying what kind of band/musicians they want
  • the 'Venue' cards can also be like the tickets in Ticket To Ride
  • the drafting cards are musicians
  • you have rhythm section cards (drum, bass, banjo, guitar, piano)
  • and horn section cards (wood, brass)
  • with these cards you can combine jazz trio's and quartets
  • some musicians don't want to play with certain other musicians
  • if you score venues in the same city, that gets you bonus points
  • playing the same musician multiple times means he plays a hell of a solo - resulting in bonus points
  • maybe some kind of possibility to have events (the audience wants an encore, the audience starts to dance, ...)
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Wed, 10/26/2016 - 15:22
#1
chris_mancini
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There is an extensive

There is an extensive discussion on this game here on BGDF; actually much of it was molded by community input...but here's what I wanted to comment:

This sounds very much like my game Second Line, in which players draft hands of performer cards in order to attract more paraders to join your Second Line parade (a grand tradition in New Orleans). The board is a map of the French Quarter of New Orleans, and players exchange sets of performer cards for paraders to add to their line which winds through the city, similar to TTR, but the players choose their route however they want.

In Second Line, performer cards are split into 5 main categories: Rhythm, Brass, Singers, Dancers and Floats. Added to these are Grand Marshal cards, which play the same but have higher requirements and awards.

Most performer cards have a requirement which must be met before they can be used in play. Mainly these are specific types of other cards which must be in your hand to play them, such as a brass player who requires a rhythm to be played along with it. So you must create a "harmonious" hand to play and attract/win paraders to add to your parade line on the board.

Second Line also has Event cards and Objective cards...all in the interest of bringing the musical French Quarter of New Orleans to life.

At any rate, Second Line has been through extensive testing and review by several companies, including Hasbro. This is not meant to throw you off, just telling you my story. I think your game could certainly have its own fresh theme and gameplay, it's just good to be aware of what else is out there, or in my case, being shopped to publishers.

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Tue, 11/22/2016 - 13:23
#2
Midnight_Carnival
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Myself I hate Jazz!

Sorry, a bit of African Jazz, Percussion Jazz and some good Jazz singers can be ok if I'm in the right mood, but not a fan of that music genre!

Regarding the card game:

I don't know if it is similar to a different game or not, but regardless of whether it is an issue of plagiarism, you need to take is seriously when people start saying "it sounds a lot like..." because unless it sounds a lot like a very popular game which has stopped being produced, you want to make it as original as possible.

That aside and disregarding my manifest loathing and disgust with the putrid Jazz music genre, I think this game sounds very interesting and and (provided it didn't come with a soundtrack!) I would love to play it in it's finished form.

I have some suggestions I would like to make which I hope could make it more interesting and possibly more original if that is an issue (I have certainly never heard of another game like it).

Experience, whether it be fame or skill.
A musician will become more valuable over time or after doing certain things. It might be that the group gets fame, recognition, skill, etc for doing something or it might be in the (drowning, nausea inducing [sorry, I hate Jazz in case I didn't mention that before] overly long) solos you can string together for your musicians.

The second suggestion I have kind of goes with the first and it may not be a suggestion because I'm not sure if you are doing this or not after reading your post, but consider it if you are not doing this:
Make musicians cards themselves, ones you can pick up and trade. What was that very annoying vampire game where you put your vamp cards out and then loaded spells onto them or something? Well anyway, perhaps consider something similar with the musicians. So you want to keep your trio or quartet or whatever intact as long as possible, but you also want to improve your individual musicians in order to have some kind of insurance policy. Perhaps you may need to start a new band and they won't get anywhere nearly as fast as established bands, but being able to include for example a famous and skilled bassist really helps them start off well.
Also, individual musician will develop like a fan base or something, so that every time they play you can be sure X no of people will come specifically to watch them.

I was also wondering about perhaps including 'leverage' cards or something... I mean ways you can bribe, blackmail or buy out individual musician from other players' bands, kind of like a crooked football manager side to the game.

Vampire football managing Jazz musicians! a killer combo if ever I saw one!!!

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Wed, 11/23/2016 - 20:22
#3
saluk
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Joined: 05/11/2010
Midnight_Carnival

Midnight_Carnival wrote:
Sorry, a bit of African Jazz, Percussion Jazz and some good Jazz singers can be ok if I'm in the right mood, but not a fan of that music genre!

Regarding the card game:

I don't know if it is similar to a different game or not, but regardless of whether it is an issue of plagiarism, you need to take is seriously when people start saying "it sounds a lot like..." because unless it sounds a lot like a very popular game which has stopped being produced, you want to make it as original as possible.

That aside and disregarding my manifest loathing and disgust with the putrid Jazz music genre, I think this game sounds very interesting and and (provided it didn't come with a soundtrack!) I would love to play it in it's finished form.

I have some suggestions I would like to make which I hope could make it more interesting and possibly more original if that is an issue (I have certainly never heard of another game like it).

Experience, whether it be fame or skill.
A musician will become more valuable over time or after doing certain things. It might be that the group gets fame, recognition, skill, etc for doing something or it might be in the (drowning, nausea inducing [sorry, I hate Jazz in case I didn't mention that before] overly long) solos you can string together for your musicians.

The second suggestion I have kind of goes with the first and it may not be a suggestion because I'm not sure if you are doing this or not after reading your post, but consider it if you are not doing this:
Make musicians cards themselves, ones you can pick up and trade. What was that very annoying vampire game where you put your vamp cards out and then loaded spells onto them or something? Well anyway, perhaps consider something similar with the musicians. So you want to keep your trio or quartet or whatever intact as long as possible, but you also want to improve your individual musicians in order to have some kind of insurance policy. Perhaps you may need to start a new band and they won't get anywhere nearly as fast as established bands, but being able to include for example a famous and skilled bassist really helps them start off well.
Also, individual musician will develop like a fan base or something, so that every time they play you can be sure X no of people will come specifically to watch them.

I was also wondering about perhaps including 'leverage' cards or something... I mean ways you can bribe, blackmail or buy out individual musician from other players' bands, kind of like a crooked football manager side to the game.

Vampire football managing Jazz musicians! a killer combo if ever I saw one!!!

I think replicating the style of jazz into the gameplay would be amazing. When playing a song, you try and generate a high scoring sequence with a lot of good solos, but the solos can only come in according to some pattern. There has to be a place for it, and it should stand out but still fit the rest of the song. This would make it very unique I think!

I'm not sure I like the idea of starting multiple bands, but having some mechanic where you are making tough decisions between keeping the three average musicians together or replacing them with one great one who won't work with amateurs, or something like that, might be interesting.

I do take a small issue with your "it sounds like" problem. If someone were to talk about a fantasy rpg themed game, or a cthulhu game, or a zombie game, or a city builder; people aren't going to be quick to compare it to a specific game. Because there are so many. But a theme that may have only been used once or twice, like putting together a band, will instantly draw a comparison to the one game someone has played.

It can be a tough place to be - almost better to be the 12th game in a theme than the 2nd.

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Thu, 11/24/2016 - 08:47
#4
Midnight_Carnival
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sorry, just quickly responding.

Regarding the "it sounds like" - you will observe that I am a big fan of what I regard as "true originality" and I always encourage people to make their games as original as possible. That is all I was doing here.
I was looking at the game as if I had created it and seeing how I'd respond to "it sounds like..." (um, not all that well, I regard this as severe criticism!)

regarding the part where Jazz music is replicated in the game mechanics: I missed out on or skipped over that one because I'm really not a fan of Jazz. Now that I understand it better I think it is quite clever.
thanks

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Thu, 11/24/2016 - 15:39
#5
saluk
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Midnight_Carnival

Midnight_Carnival wrote:
Regarding the "it sounds like" - you will observe that I am a big fan of what I regard as "true originality" and I always encourage people to make their games as original as possible. That is all I was doing here.
I was looking at the game as if I had created it and seeing how I'd respond to "it sounds like..." (um, not all that well, I regard this as severe criticism!)

regarding the part where Jazz music is replicated in the game mechanics: I missed out on or skipped over that one because I'm really not a fan of Jazz. Now that I understand it better I think it is quite clever.
thanks

Yeah I was expanding on the idea you started here: "It might be that the group gets fame, recognition, skill, etc for doing something or it might be in the (drowning, nausea inducing [sorry, I hate Jazz in case I didn't mention that before] overly long) solos you can string together for your musicians. " - the stringing together solos bit.

I have a similar reaction to jazz music as you do by the way :P But a couple of my friends play so I've learned to appreciate it a bit more than I used to. The way the music is written to allow the improvisation, but still seem cohesive is pretty interesting. I'll always be a classical man however ;)

I just don't think you can avoid someone comparing your game to another one. It's always a good opportunity to see if the other game has solved a problem already you are struggling to solve, or see where you can diverge of course. But with 100,000 games in existence, stretching back over most of recorded human history, coupled with the human minds natural tendency to try to link things together, you can't avoid it. I wouldn't take that as such a harsh criticism - sometimes it may be a compliment. Such as, "wow, this is sort of like clue, but actually fun!"

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Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:11
#6
comfused
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Joined: 04/11/2012
Thanks for the replies. I

Thanks for the replies.
I kinda forgot about this topic - since my focus went to finalising another game.

I haven't researched any other jazz themes games - cause that might influence me.
So the "sounds like" is pure coincidence ;-)

I like the suggestions!
Hopefully I'll find some time this weekend.

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Thu, 12/01/2016 - 17:23
#7
kwasher
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Joined: 10/07/2016
I wonder if you could

I wonder if you could eliminate the specificity of jazz and go with 'eras' instead. You could ultimately have multiple games. ie... The 1920's. The 1980's. Etc. And use musicians of that era. "Ha, I drew the Alice Cooper card...." ;)

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Sat, 12/03/2016 - 17:56
#8
Arthur Wohlwill
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Joined: 05/30/2015
Re: Jazz Band Card Game

I am curious how your drafting works.

I am making a similar themed game that also involves choosing musicians. In this game you are a producer trying to put together a band. The band must include a drummer, a bassist, a singer and a guitarist. Each round, the players secretly allocate limited resources to "scouting" and or "payment". The player with the highest scouting resources for a particular musician gets the first option to select a musician of that type if they have sufficient payment resources. There are also "studio musicians" which players bid for in a more standard auction. Some of the studio musicians get bonuses if they pair with musicians of a certain talent (for example, the back up singers are worth more if the main singer is the best musician of the band). This is sort of the opposite of what you have with the musicians who refuse to play with some other musicians, but the effects may be similar. I look forward to hearing more about your game' I hope it wont be too similar. I have played my game a couple of times. It looks like it "works".

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